unsanctifier Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 corner oki = knockdown into 214c into 236a
Arifureta Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Ah, sorry, I assumed it was oki because of the corner part. You could probably make this work with a simple jump-in right? I don't think 2D would cover your IAD that well. And I think with the 214C oki, you'd be better off setting up an unblockable.
unsanctifier Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 i'd disagree, 214c is good for punishing a tech roll with an easy 5k + combo i only like throwing out his unblockables once and if my opponent is scared of me enough to block a lot
Rhiya Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Fun fact: I got a green throw during Duo Bios in training mode the other day. I was like wtf, how did I even?! If you could replicate that, though, that'd be godlike. Ah, sorry, I assumed it was oki because of the corner part. You could probably make this work with a simple jump-in right? I don't think 2D would cover your IAD that well. And I think with the 214C oki, you'd be better off setting up an unblockable. IAD gives you a slight bit of hang time in the corner before you fall that jump doesn't. It would still work, I think, but not as well. 2D doesn't have to cover it perfectly, just well enough your opponent doesn't hit buttons every time you try mixup. And how the hell would you set up an unblockable off 214C? That doesn't even make sense, since Ignis is running mid hits the entire time.
Toasty Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I think they were talking about doing 214C or an unblockable.
Arifureta Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Fun fact: I got a green throw during Duo Bios in training mode the other day. I was like wtf, how did I even?! If you could replicate that, though, that'd be godlike. I think the early punches don't quite have that much hitstun so it's easier to get the neutral requirement for a green throw. And I'm sorry (again), I had the wrong image in my head. I kept seeing 214D when people mentioned 214C for some reason.
Skye Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 We talking oki techniques? I usually go derp > 3c > 236d > 66 > rising j.c. This works btw.
Arifureta Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 nigga wtf I got confused. This works btw. How does this fare against people who like mashing out DPs on wakeup?
Skye Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 How does this fare against people who like mashing out DPs on wakeup? Space it right, 236d (> backdash) has a lot of range, range that will give you time to determine the DP. It's also a good pressure tool, Depending on the range, if they're barrier blocking to get out, you can easily see the DP and it will whiff altogether as long as you don't run in like an idiot. If they're blocking normally or IBing, then what do you think it going to happen?
Rhiya Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 236D is an awful pressure tool. You'll just get mashed the fuck out unless your opponent respects braindead hard or is so blind he can't see 56f startups that summon fucking dolls. And it's 66f if you have Ignis out -- which you should in pressure. And if she's out, it DESUMMONS HER AND RESUMMONS HER. You'd have to be super blind.
unsanctifier Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 i'd disagree, 214c is good for punishing a tech roll with an easy 5k + combo i only like throwing out his unblockables once and if my opponent is scared of me enough to block a lot gonna repost this
Arifureta Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Space it right, 236d (> backdash) has a lot of range, range that will give you time to determine the DP. It's also a good pressure tool, Depending on the range, if they're barrier blocking to get out, you can easily see the DP and it will whiff altogether as long as you don't run in like an idiot. If they're blocking normally or IBing, then what do you think it going to happen? Mm, I see. I was worried about the startup but provided you do actually get them to block then you'll be sitting at a pretty good advantage. 236D is an awful pressure tool. You'll just get mashed the fuck out unless your opponent respects braindead hard or is so blind he can't see 56f startups that summon fucking dolls. And it's 66f if you have Ignis out -- which you should in pressure. And if she's out, it DESUMMONS HER AND RESUMMONS HER. You'd have to be super blind. I think it has it's merits, plus you do get a pretty good advantage if you get them to block it. Though I do agree that it is very telegraphed and easily jumpable. It could lead to interesting shenanigans though where if you were pressuring midscreen with (stuff) > 3C > 236D > jc and you know they'd jump it to escape, you could go for an airthrow.
Rhiya Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think it has it's merits, plus you do get a pretty good advantage if you get them to block it The advantage means nothing if it never hits. CS1 Tsubaki got +3 off 214C (39f startup, iirc). But I only hit someone with it maybe once in the entire time CS1 was out. Same with 22[C]; its fully charged startup was 50f or so, and it gave +10, but I only ever hit someone with it once or twice. 236D is slower and even /more/ telegraphed than both of those are. The only people who will block it are people who A) haven't seen it before, B) respect so hard they'll respect a second-long summon, or C), are waking up so they're at a large disadvantage. 236D and 214D were made for oki and nothing else. Edited February 2, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
Arifureta Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 The advantage means nothing if it never hits. I agree. In pressure, I would classify it more as a gimmick than a go-to option. It is not completely unworkable though since if you condition your opponent to expect (stuff) > 3C > jc/2D > (continue stuff) then there is a point where you can maybe squeeze it in. Though yes, on paper and in perfect play, this would never work.
Kurushii Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 236D is designed strictly for oki. Try to make combos out of it as a starter and you'll see it's garbage for that. As stated too long for pressure. Only option left for it is oki. I love 214D corner oki personally. Stops them from jumping out and you can still followup from it easily.
Skye Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XNCzLJldb-s#t=20s You sure 5c is only JCable on the first hit?
Kurushii Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Positive. You can still jump into air combo after the second hit but it's not a jump cancel.
Skye Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 The recovery can't be that small. If it's not a jump cancel then what is it?
Kurushii Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) To me it always seemed like the second hit made the jump take longer to come out compared to canceling the first hit. Maybe it's a later frame from the second hit that's allowed to be jc'ed compared to the first? EDIT: Ok looked at it more closely. Yea the second hit is jc'able. Gotta thank the jp wiki for putting it into my head it was only the first hit in the first place. Updated all the pages of him with the correct info on that. Edited February 3, 2012 by Kurushii
shtkn Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 http://www.dustloop.com/images/random/bb/ignis.png needs a bit of touchup, but it's more or less done
Kurushii Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 http://www.dustloop.com/images/random/bb/ignis.png needs a bit of touchup, but it's more or less done Awesome :D
Kurushii Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Got a hold of the official English movelist. :3 [Yes I know the two Geara's are reversed. My source informed me of the errors already popping up in the English build.] D - Detonator 236C, j.236C - Id Lauger 214A, j.214A - Id Haas j.214B - Id Naiads 236A - Led Ley 214A - Val Lanto 214B - Val Lyra 214C - Val Tus 214D - Geara Nose 236D - Geara Act j.214B - Bel Lafino 632146C - Req Vinum 632146D - Vol Tedo 236236D - Duo Bios 214214D - The Puppeteer's Altar Edited February 5, 2012 by Kurushii
André Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) So, as of now, which characters do you guys think are good/even/bad match-ups for Relius? Edited February 5, 2012 by André
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