[CSE] Ragna Combo Thread/Discussion

[BigHatcH]

I'm having trouble getting the backstep 3c after inferno divider wall bounce I cant seam to get it to connect it ether blue beats or they tech out of it.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'm having trouble getting the backstep 3c after inferno divider wall bounce I cant seam to get it to connect it ether blue beats or they tech out of it.

Well which combo are you trying to do it off of?

[someonewhodied]

Don't you have to like, not trigger any SMP and delay the last hit a bit for it to work in longer combos? (Just learning ragna so don't judge my slowness)

[Lucalibur]

If proration is too heavy, usually through overusage of moves or SMP, then it won't connect and you have to end with either axe kick or hells fang\22C before ID. Delaying the 3C doesn't really do anything and can cause you to do it too late from my experience. Its all about timing if you got the combo right, just takes a while to get used to it.

[BigHatcH]

Well which combo are you trying to do it off of?

So it's combo specific? i thought it was just anall around wall bounce ender.

[-Kid]

It is a typical wall bounce ender, but he asked which combo you are doing it off so he can give you the best piece of advice. Some combos like the optimal throw corner combo that nets 4.1k requires you to do the cross under 3C quickly before the opponent techs.

As for other combos, the 3C may blue beat or the opponent might tech because the combo is too heavily prorated. This is why we needed to know the combo you were doing. For example, if you are starting a combo with 2A > 2A > 5B > 2B > 5C, the cross under 3C at the end may not work depending on the combo you do, because you've prorated the combo with all those additional hits.

[BigHatcH]

oh ok, well my staple combo for the wall (provided i have 50 heat) is 5B > 5C > 214A > 214D RC > 6B > 5C > D first hit > 214D >5C D 623D > 236C > 236C and I am tring to get the cross under 3C, to eather hells fang or 22C.

[BlackYakuzu94]

oh ok, well my staple combo for the wall (provided i have 50 heat) is 5B > 5C > 214A > 214D RC > 6B > 5C > D first hit > 214D >5C D 623D > 236C > 236C and I am tring to get the cross under 3C, to eather hells fang or 22C.

I'll admit to not knowing proration as well as I should considering I've been playing for a while now, but I think you should take out the second 5D and just go straight into ID.

[Cheefoo]

oh ok, well my staple combo for the wall (provided i have 50 heat) is 5B > 5C > 214A > 214D RC > 6B > 5C > D first hit > 214D >5C D 623D > 236C > 236C and I am tring to get the cross under 3C, to eather hells fang or 22C.

You should avoid using hell's fang that early in a combo. It has awful protation, so it's best to save it for the last hit, or avoid it altogether unless you're forced to because they're out of range of all your other moves (though the follow up gives good knockdown and meter gain).

Your corner combos should look something like this:

5B>5C>2D>RC>5C>jC>jD>j214C>6B>2C>5D(1)>214D>2C>5D(2)>623C*>236C>236C>44>3C>22C**

*or 623D if you can cancel so only the first hit comes out - generally not worth fretting about

**you can just jump cancel the 3C for oki if you don't mind losing the damage/crumple or 214A>214D if you want meter

If they tech before they hit the ground after the straight punch wallbounce, that means you're too prorated. If they hit the ground and tech, it means you simply did it too slow. Also, the 22C timing can be a bit more difficult on certain characters.

[-Kid]

oh ok, well my staple combo for the wall (provided i have 50 heat) is 5B > 5C > 214A > 214D RC > 6B > 5C > D first hit > 214D >5C D 623D > 236C > 236C and I am tring to get the cross under 3C, to eather hells fang or 22C.

The D inferno divider is the problem here. It's the reason why the cross under 3C is not working properly. You need to use D inferno divider (1 hit). Don't make the inferno divider hit twice. Alternatively, if you are having problems with making the D inferno divider hit once, you could use C inferno divider instead.

Other than that, this combo you are doing is not the most optimal damage combo you are using off HF rapid. Try this when you feel slightly more comfortable with Ragna:

5B > 5C > HF(2) > RC > TK GH > 5B > 5D(1) > DS > 5C > sjc > j.C > j.D > jc > j.C > j.D > BE > 5D > DID(1) > 236C > 236C > CU 3C > 22C.

(4392 dmg /49 heat)

Your corner combos should look something like this:

5B>5C>2D>RC>5C>jC>jD>j214C>6B>2C>5D(1)>214D>2C>5D(2)>623C*>236C>236C>44>3C>22C**

A slightly more optimal combo would be:

5B > 5C > 2D > RC > 5C > 5D(1) > DS > 5C > sjc > j.C > j.D > jc > j.C > j.D > BE > 6B > 5D(2) > DID(1) > 236C > 236C > Cross Under 3C > 22C

That's like 5k or 5.1k, I'll confirm later when I get on training mode.

Edited July 3, 2013 by -Kid

[KayEff]

even more optimal:

5B > 5C > 214A >> 214D > RC 6B > 5C > 5D(1) > 214D > 5C > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.D > j.214C > 5D > 623C(1) > 236C > 236C > CU 3C

5B > 5C > 2D > RC > 5C > 5D(1) > 214D > 5C > jc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.214C > 6B > 2C > 5D > 623D(1) > 236C > 236C > CU 3C

zzz

[BigHatcH]

Ok, this is good feedback for me, I am vary comfortable w/ Ragna Its juat that all that i have got down so far is stuff that i have come up with on my own whithout much high level play influence, hence my joining of Dustloop. I am getting the CU 3C down and now what i think i should start on is adding or taking out certen moves in a combo to optomise damage, meter, and protation right?

[-Kid]

even more optimal:

5B > 5C > 214A >> 214D > RC 6B > 5C > 5D(1) > 214D > 5C > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.D > j.214C > 5D > 623C(1) > 236C > 236C > CU 3C

5B > 5C > 2D > RC > 5C > 5D(1) > 214D > 5C > jc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.214C > 6B > 2C > 5D > 623D(1) > 236C > 236C > CU 3C

zzz

Thanks a lot KayEff.

(4422 dmg / 45 heat) 1st combo

(5153 dmg / 38 heat) 2nd combo

Ok, this is good feedback for me, I am vary comfortable w/ Ragna Its juat that all that i have got down so far is stuff that i have come up with on my own whithout much high level play influence, hence my joining of Dustloop. I am getting the CU 3C down and now what i think i should start on is adding or taking out certen moves in a combo to optomise damage, meter, and protation right?

What you could focus on at the moment is actually going straight into playing people once you feel comfortable enough. You'll find that most of the things you learn and do in training mode won't work against people or work the way you want it to. You'll also find that you're having to adapt to the way people play. Fastest way to learn is to play against others, as it'll teach you want to do, and what not to do.

Combo wise, just look at this combo thread for the most optimal confirms off certain moves. Proration is a good place to start when it comes to understanding combo routes though. You'll need to learn Ragna's most damaging starters. (Dead spike, 22C, 2D, 6C etc)

[MashThat5A]

I don't think he needs to worry about 22C starter

[someonewhodied]

I don't get it, a 6C midscreen I've found the optimal combo is:

X>6C>66>214D>665C>hjc>j.C>j.D>dj.C>j.D>Belial>(in corner now)66B>5D>[Optional Dead Spike>5D]>Carnage Scissors

which does more damage than the favorite I usually see:

X>6C>66>66B>2C>5C>5D>66>6A>j.D>dj.D>Belial>66B>5D>Carnage Scissors

but I don't see anyone use the first one.

Edited August 2, 2013 by someonewhodied

[Ctrlaltwtf]

This is what I've always done:

5190 (Corner)

5B > 5C > 2D > RC 66~5C > 5D(1) > DS > delay 2C > 5C* > jC > jc jC > BE > 6B** > 2C > 5D(2) > ID(1)*** ~236C~236C > CU 3C > 22C

*5C has to be delayed (the gatling) against some specific characters, mainly Arakune.

**I don't usually bother microdashing this. Not microdashing the 6B makes the ID(1) easy as hell (it won't even hit twice). There may be some characters that require it but I haven't encountered any due to the positioning of BE. By not microdashing this you get a super ideal ID(1) with no effort.

***You can land both hits against characters with big legs so long as you delay the Straight Punch afterwards (NOT the Uppercut) Best example is Jin.

5B > 3C > 22C > RC is more desirable though, but requires you to be close range.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[KayEff]

I don't get it, a 6C midscreen I've found the optimal combo is:

X>6C>66>214D>665C>hjc>j.C>j.D>dj.C>j.D>Belial>(in corner now)66B>5D>[Optional Dead Spike>5D]>Carnage Scissors

which does more damage than the favorite I usually see:

X>6C>66>66B>2C>5C>5D>66>6A>j.D>dj.D>Belial>66B>5D>Carnage Scissors

but I don't see anyone use the first one.

first off 6C into dead spike first of all doesn't work on half of the cast due to hitboxes, and second dead spike followups are incredibly hard with that setup. there's a reason why there's usually no dead spike in midscreen combos.

5B > 3C > 22C > RC is more desirable though, but requires you to be close range.

5B > 3C > 22C is not more desirable, and there are two reasons why. the first reason is the one you listed: you have to be close enough for 22C to work. in most cases, you'll also be too far for 3C to work as well, and whiffing 3C after 5B will always make the opponent hit you. the second reason is that this isn't a good confirm. distance from the opponent plays a role in this, but it's also the blockstring options after 3C. if you used 5B > 5C > 2D for example, you could at least gatling into 2C after 5C, which is huge in ragna's game. however, your only options after 3C are 2D, special cancel (hue), or jump cancel. if you jump cancel, you're most likely do a backwards jump cancel cause of how slow the approach from forward jump is. with 2D or back jump cancel, you'll end up retreating to neutral, and with forward or neutral jump cancel you're putting yourself at risk.

now if it was something like airdash j.C > j.D > dash 5B > 3C, that would be a completely different story.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Midscreen I just tend to use the 6C>DC 6B>2C>5C>etc. etc. because it does decent damage. I've tried to use Dead Spike midscreen, it doesn't work. At all. If I have 50 meter to burn then I use 5B>5C>2D RC>66 5C>hjc>j.C>j.D>etc. etc.

now if it was something like airdash j.C > j.D > dash 5B > 3C, that would be a completely different story.

How so?

[MashThat5A]

Because you can confirm the combo off of airdash j.C>j.D, and you'll always be close enough for 5B>3C>22C to work (gasp)

[BlackYakuzu94]

Because you can confirm the combo off of airdash j.C>j.D, and you'll always be close enough for 5B>3C>22C to work (gasp)

Ya know, I actually was thinking about that I just wasn't sure. And now I know.

[someonewhodied]

Here is a fraud gold burst combo I just did

(Character specific, works on anyone 5C>j.C>j.D hits on standing)

2C(FC)>6D>jump Cancel Gold burst>Gold Burst>Dead Spike>3C>22C>RC>665C>j.C>j.D>665B>5C>j.C.j.D665B>5C>j.C.j.D>665B>6A>hjc>j.C>j.D>dj.C>j.D>Belial>665D>Carnage Scissors.

8333 damage, 100% heat, builds 40 heat in the combo after the RC.

[MashThat5A]

So who exactly are you benefiting from posting this?

[someonewhodied]

It just looked cool so i wanted to share :I

[The Katz]

first off 6C into dead spike first of all doesn't work on half of the cast due to hitboxes, and second dead spike followups are incredibly hard with that setup. there's a reason why there's usually no dead spike in midscreen combos.

woo month late on the topic.

6C > 66~ 5D(1) > 214D works on everyone and isn't difficult to follow up midscreen. It also gives you more damage than the standard followup would after 6C. The only issue would be distance after 6C, or rather lack of. There are a handful of characters I don't like doing this combo on, but it is much less of an issue than any other combos midscreen while maintaining both damage and corner carry. Mainly Hazama and anyone who shares his hitbox give me trouble when it comes to hitting them with j.D, but there are options around that.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Is the combo dependent on how close you are to the opponent when the 6C connects?