[CSE] Iron Tager vs Noel: Underaged driving exposed

[Osuna]

The heck is GF vacuum? Anyone want to help me out on that one? Like put a bnb with this as oki into standard notation so I have it in readable form?

I don't think it is delayed 22D, because that will often end in 22D and he says he never does it. Maybe 2D, 22D? Anyone ever heard of this term before?

Edited January 23, 2013 by Osuna

[mAc Chaos]

Wakeup = when you're down, and getting up. Noel wakeup = Noel is down

Oki = the stuff you can do to people when you have them on wakeup

He means GF vacuum as in sucking them in with mag from across the screen after knockdown.

[Osuna]

Wakeup = when you're down, and getting up. Noel wakeup = Noel is down

Oki = the stuff you can do to people when you have them on wakeup

He means GF vacuum as in sucking them in with mag from across the screen after knockdown.

Knockdown from What? Doesn't work after 2D, j.D or 5D (Definitely doesn't work off GF) What the does the combo look like? I can't figure out what he is doing.

[mAc Chaos]

I can't really remember off the top of my head, but probably from not teching a tech trap and falling to the ground, maybe.

[Darret_Wallace]

from 3c

[mAc Chaos]

Osuna here's another example. It's basically using GF the way people would use AC to reel people in and make them tech into a 360 for a tech trap sometimes.

I feel like there should be an easy way to avoid it though...

Let's say you get a CH 5D and they go flying across the screen, for whatever reason you don't combo it and they don't air tech, then you probably could GF to start sucking them in. Then they neutral tech and end up right next to Tager for whatever comes next.

I don't remember if this is an actual situation but it's just an example.

[Osuna]

I get the idea, but I still don't know what you could get it off of. (5DCH wall bounces so it can't be that). This is important because it determines distance, options and frame advantage.

This seems thoroughly specialized, so I need an actual situation to evaluate it. Especially because it seems clear at this point he's sacrificing damage for it since no traditional enders should make this work and it gives the opponent a lot of options, which may or may not be viable depending on the set up that no one seems to know.

For the record, people who contribute should ideally say "When such and such happens" or "Off of such and such" you can blah blah against noel's whatever.

For example, off of any GF you can use 6A to stuff 5D, 2D, 4D and Backdash. If you hold it just a little it won't catch backdashes but it will catch 3C.

It gives Context (GF) precise usage, exactly what it beats. And even a little extra on a variation. If you have a special kind of mix up/oki you need to give context for it.

Like instead of Elbow gadget I do j.2C 5B j.A j.B j.D. It gives a clear locaton for application and I can then talk about differences, mix ups, and situations where it isn't as strong.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't think it's that nobody knows about it, I think it's just something nobody uses anymore because you go with a traditional ender and oki. I remember people talking about GF whiff and its pull being great in previous BB games. Can't anyone think of a situation where GF whiff was ever used to pull someone in closer or anything.

[Osuna]

I don't think it's that nobody knows about it, I think it's just something nobody uses anymore because you go with a traditional ender and oki. I remember people talking about GF whiff and its pull being great in previous BB games. Can't anyone think of a situation where GF whiff was ever used to pull someone in closer or anything.

There were (and are) set ups that do that, but he's not using any of the ones I know. At least from how he describes his gameplay he isn't. Unless he's spending a lot of meter on it I'm in the dark.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I do it like this:

with magnetism: confirm -> 3C -> AC -> AC whiff -> 6c -> j.2C -> 5B -> 5C -> 5D -> delay (important) -> 22D vary hold depending on situation.

[Osuna]

I do it like this:

with magnetism: confirm -> 3C -> AC -> AC whiff -> 6c -> j.2C -> 5B -> 5C -> 5D -> delay (important) -> 22D vary hold depending on situation.

If they neutral tech before they land they recover safely almost full screen and you get no oki at all. In fact they recover before you do if you pull them anywhere near you, so you don't even have frame advantage really.

Edit:Tonight I'm going to be deleteing posts that ended up going no where, I'm going to wait a little since there'll probably be a few more before the end of the day.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Osuna

[A.X.I.S.]

There were (and are) set ups that do that, but he's not using any of the ones I know. At least from how he describes his gameplay he isn't. Unless he's spending a lot of meter on it I'm in the dark.

Correct, the reason we do the ones we do is because it is consistent and forces certain responses from our opponents or just pulls them in.

I still feel sad that I keep doing AC > walk 2D > GF/2D it is so terrible and inconsistent.

BTW the reason why 5D > GF whiff isn't so great because it pushes you further away, pushes your opponent further away and you give up whatever momentum you had.

I tested it before and found that it isn't very useful on smart players.

[Zoular]

Knockdown from What? Doesn't work after 2D, j.D or 5D (Definitely doesn't work off GF) What the does the combo look like? I can't figure out what he is doing.

3C > GF > (GF) > 360 catches back dashes. I'd mostly use it on Lambda/Mu-12/Bang

It still pulls opponents back in if they decide to jump back, Noel's 4D beats this.

5A > 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > 2D > (4D)/(GF)/(5D)

Brings the opponent back in when they neutral tech

[Osuna]

3C > GF > (GF) > 360 catches back dashes. I'd mostly use it on Lambda/Mu-12/Bang

It still pulls opponents back in if they decide to jump back, Noel's 4D beats this.

5A > 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > 2D > (4D)/(GF)/(5D)

Brings the opponent back in when they neutral tech

Noel is a little skinny so good luck landing that second combo without whiffing the 2C. If they tech off the 2D you can't 22D, and 5D lets them recover much earlier than you and still pretty far away. Also, j.C whiff j.2C is just better than using 2D if you can do it.

GF, GF whiff is normal stuff. It catches a lot of jumps and backdashes (Though it does not strictly punish mu or lambda backdashing.). It isn't recommended, but strictly speaking shortest GF whiff gives you enough time to 360A/720 4D.

The post I was referring to was for a GF whiff off of something that was explicitly not GF and it turned out to be a gimmick.

[Zoular]

That's why I made that post, seemed to be some confusion and I figured that's what Ctrlaltwtf was referring to.

[Osuna]

That's why I made that post, seemed to be some confusion and I figured that's what Ctrlaltwtf was referring to.

Nope. He posted exactly what he meant and that wasn't it. If you read all the posts I actually speculated some of those before and had already explained they don't work.