Official UK/GB Area Thread

[Darret_Wallace]

someone fight me please! PS3 i should mention.

[YukiBlue]

Ragna only gets his big damage off of 6b/crouching confirm or 6c midscreen or if he has the meter to rapid cancel. Bang has better overall damage than him off of a light confirm and better corner carry. Heck his damage isn't even that high compared to someone like Valk. Bang's mixups are so much better, his movement is better, his 5b is just a hair short of being Ragna level, seriously, it's dumb. FRKZ is retarded in every sense of the word and Bang's air normals (J.b!!!!) destroy a lot of the cast for free.

Ragna's offense ain't all that TBH, you can mash out of dead spike's start up and he as very few normals which are + on block or even jump cancellable to reset pressure. Heck you can guardpoint dead spike for free. Bang's offense is much tighter, harder to block and nails give him a really really good neutral game and shut down many of the casts options.

I agree that Ragna may be better, but only very very slightly. Valk is the one you need to watch out for.

TBH I honestly do not think Valk is all that. Sure wolf mixup is pretty retarded but staying mobile and off the ground during his transorm is pretty key. His midscreen damage is average at the very best and they all pretty much revolve around corner carry anyway. Now the basic walk corner combo does 5K damage from 5B and it builds its own meter from the 2A relaunch. But in order to get hit by Valks 5B you need to be pressing buttons, Valk is a lot less scary when you just block human mixups (Instant overhead costs 50 heat but you can usually see it coming from any JC'able moves in a blockstring.) He has nothing that is truly scary.

Ragna is just a big ball of hate with a constant damage output. His 5B and 5C are just scary. Valk is scary yeah, but if he was so good im sure we would see more of him.

[Chazmobile]

TBH I honestly do not think Valk is all that. Sure wolf mixup is pretty retarded but staying mobile and off the ground during his transorm is pretty key. His midscreen damage is average at the very best and they all pretty much revolve around corner carry anyway. Now the basic walk corner combo does 5K damage from 5B and it builds its own meter from the 2A relaunch. But in order to get hit by Valks 5B you need to be pressing buttons, Valk is a lot less scary when you just block human mixups (Instant overhead costs 50 heat but you can usually see it coming from any JC'able moves in a blockstring.) He has nothing that is truly scary.

Ragna is just a big ball of hate with a constant damage output. His 5B and 5C are just scary. Valk is scary yeah, but if he was so good im sure we would see more of him.

1. Try jumping against wolf Valk and not getting your shit pushed in by either w.5b or w.Ja, his mixups in wolf form are invisible and land him in the upwards of 2.5k for an instant over head with massive corner carry. His midscreen damage is well above average and wolf form regen rate and the fact that he has such a dumb mechanic is the main reason why he's pretty much considered the best at this point.

2. Human mixups aren't bad to block at all, it's just that can endlessly reset pressure with wolf and he has an incredible amount of plus frames on a lot of moves. He can transition into wolf from human during blockstrings for a really stupid 50/50 which go into 2.5k+ midscreen and more in the corner. His reward for hitting human mixups are far more rewarding than Ragna's. Try blocking the instant overhead on reaction when your getting pressured by Valk whilst looking for pretty much every other mixup under the sun, you can really only guess. The best part about it though, it's safe!!!!!! A lot of Ragna's shit isn't. Everything about Valk is scary minus his defence, he has one of the best anti-airs which is easy to combo off, some of the best set of normals in the game, retarded movement and mixups and some of the best damage in the game.

3. Ragna's damage output is nowhere near constant, like I said his only real big damage midscreen is off 6b/crouching confirm and 6c, truth be told you won't get hit by them too often seeing as 6b is very telegraphed. Compared to Valk's ridiculous 50/50s, Ragna's mixup is sub-par. Even with meter Valk does far more damage, both in the corner and midscreen. Go check the Ragna combo thread, you'll see his damage isn't that high at all without 50 meter, even then Valk does more. The reason we don't see more Valks is that he requires a good deal of effort to play, whereas Rags is instant results for little work.

Seriously dude, go find a good Valkenhayn player (I mean properly good), play him and then try and say Rags is better. I've played both Kiba and Kid many times, both are very strong players, and Kiba's Valk scares me far more than Kid's Ragna simply because the old bastard is a better character plain and simple. I'm sure Keebz will agree with me here.

[YukiBlue]

I play/ed Valkenhayn (Actual GT is Valkenhayn...) a fair few hundred times (Admittedly mostly in CS2 and only a few in EX) And I could argue all day here. I just do not find Valkenhayn all that scary. Maybe it's because I use D nails as a crutch, or maybe Bang is good against Valk I don't know. I think we're both hyping up these characters to be god-tier when in fact neither of them really are.

I think there are too many factors to take into consideration with this. We both have different views and it would take too long for me to explain. I think they are as strong as eachother, but I'm just saying I would not say Valk is better at all. Maybe I just disrespect Valks mixups too much, It's prone as hell to churning Ashura / Any DP. and such.

BAH. I want to say so much but im already multi-tasking this early.

[Kiba]

someone fight me please! PS3 i should mention.

Oh hello stranger. I'd play with you but I'm unable to go online unfortunately.

I'm not gonna get too invloved into this debate but:

Ragna is just problematic because of the type of pressure he can inflict, and this is especially problematic when you're using characters such as Tsubaki. You just need to be vigilant. Jump over DS and followup with j.C > combo, 6B can usually be reacted to and if it's telegraphed you can poke him out of it. He also has a really strong defense. 5C is annoying to deal with as characters who do not really have an answer to it, again, just like Tsubaki. With Valk, it's barely anything you should worrying about. My personal problem with Ragna isn't his damage, it's just having to block all the time after a combo and taking that type of pressure, especially the corner, where he has several different ways of punching your face with oki options. His mixup is sub par too.

Valkenhayn is problematic because he has some things which you just can't deal with. I really fail to agree that his instant overhead is easy to see coming, because it's not that hard for a person to transition into a low attack after a j.C normal. It just seems like someone is being very telegraphed here. He also has good oki options too. If you're Bang and you have no heat a command grab will simply beat out most of your wakeup options. Of course if you had the heat you could asura, but again Valk could potentially bait it with a 4C/7C, and you would have wasted 50 heat, just to find yourself back to square one again. Sure human mixup is not that troubling but I think you may be forgetting the fact that Valk could just mix in wolf options. 2A > 5D > Command grab for instance. It's mainly the wolf that's scary. Apparently on the ground if he special cancels with 3D and follows up into w[5A] you can't poke him out and he'll just get a CH. You can poke him out of his other options too, but what's annoying is that he makes you move and can even make you do stupid things when he's in wolf because you do not want to get hit. Sure his defense is pretty abysmal, but that's where wolf mix up comes in. I agree with Chaz that there are not a lot of Valks because he takes a lot of hard work to get used to, and you really do not need to see more people using him to realise he's good. I also agree that you should try playing a really good Valk. I think I've seen that Valk player you're referring to.

If you do not find him scary then fairplay, I'm not disputing that as it's your opinion. I just think overall Valk is better than Ragna, and he's a stupid character because he can take way too many risks for very high reward. His meter gain is insane and 95% of his midscreen combos guarantee corner carry.

[Kujikawa]

Oh Kiba, I see you made a Mayonaka Midnight account, good on you =)

I remember when I used to be a Super Mod on that site - but I lost it due to absence, lol.

(Actual GT is Valkenhayn...)

That guy is actually terrible and a complete asshole. He also can't play Valk to save his life, I beat him with my own Valk actually.

Play a good UK Valk like Kairn Drakhoul or Kiba. You'll see his true potentional. It's pretty much, Corner Carry > One Mix-Up > Pretty much dead. 6K off an overhead isn't funny.

Ragna on the other hand can be much harded to fight then Valk for some characters. The Platinum vs Ragna Match-Up is a lot more scary then the Platinum vs Valk Match-Up.

vs Ragna = 4/6

vs Valkenhayn = 4.5/5.5 (Some say it's even, mostly depends on items like a lot of Plat's match-ups)

Another example is Litchi (According to LK).

Then there is characters that have a harder time dealing with Valk. Like Tager, for example (Trying to think of someone you play).

Kiba pretty much outlined everything else.

EDIT: Bit of an off-topic question, but does anyone play Melty Blood? (May of asked this before) I only know three other MB players in the UK.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Kujikawa

[Manta]

Tager versus valkenhayn is nigh unwinnable. All valk needs to do is get a health lead and run for the rest of the round, Tager can't do shit about it.

[EXonestar]

TBH I honestly do not think Valk is all that. Sure wolf mixup is pretty retarded but staying mobile and off the ground during his transorm is pretty key. His midscreen damage is average at the very best and they all pretty much revolve around corner carry anyway. Now the basic walk corner combo does 5K damage from 5B and it builds its own meter from the 2A relaunch. But in order to get hit by Valks 5B you need to be pressing buttons, Valk is a lot less scary when you just block human mixups (Instant overhead costs 50 heat but you can usually see it coming from any JC'able moves in a blockstring.) He has nothing that is truly scary.

Ragna is just a big ball of hate with a constant damage output. His 5B and 5C are just scary. Valk is scary yeah, but if he was so good im sure we would see more of him.

i dont' wana disagree with u on the "we wud see more of him" i just believe people just don't want or can't use him , or one of them "I dont' wana use god/ S tier characters people who moan about S tiers and pick a low tier to be some sort of rebel. Not saying that anyone here is (Because Im Not)

Valk is just scary because of his Corner carry combo's (like most characters in the game excluding some if u'll all agree) and his instand overhead , and i dont mean J.C RC. J.C, i find valk ok to play i can block like........75% of the times but wolf modes risky over head to low pressure + Wolf grab (Unable to Tech depending on how the opponent sets it up) is just ...annoying.

I wouldn't go as far to say its "scary" i just think its a piss take tbh but he had it b4 EX aswell... he's just ....Complex..... i think thats why "Some" people won't pick him up , i mean look at Carl / Rachel / Lambda , u can go and pick em up combo wise yeah. but in a real match , the shit that goes down is nothing u wud expect. i would say that rachel/carl/lamda/valk player look insane wises they are playing but people wud probably say "everyone does whats ur point" or im exaggerating so i'll just leave it at Valk is "complex".....

[Kujikawa]

Tager versus valkenhayn is nigh unwinnable. All valk needs to do is get a health lead and run for the rest of the round, Tager can't do shit about it.

Tager vs Ragna is actually plausible.

[Manta]

Tager vs Ragna is actually plausible.

It is, but it's boring as shit. You gotta call deadspike oki with a quick tech A sledge and stuff like that to even get in. The rest is just block block block. Ragna's j.C is beyond stupid.

[Chazmobile]

Ragna is boring as shit all the time though.

[Kujikawa]

For some strange reason Ragna is my top used and I don't even play him.

[Chazmobile]

For some strange reason Ragna is my top used and I don't even play him.

Uh-huh, suuuuure Jordan.

Tier whore

[geckotide]

MANY WHELPS, EVEN SIDE.

[Kujikawa]

You played Rachel in CT, Bang in CS1, Eddie in GGXXAC and don't even get me started on SFxT.

Tier Whore

[geckotide]

Well i tried to be bare lazy and use windows live movie maker but after failing so much , i downloaded a trial Pinnacle studio (12) to see if the dazzle was broken but the studio works Perfectly , sound and Quality wise. (a jagged white line at the top left corner but its nothing to effect the quality/ speed / sound and etc)

i just need to get a Non-trial version of a pinnacle studio AND im looking for that TwitchTv/JustinTV program that streams a Window on ur screen. (Not FME , that doesn't even work for my dazzle - for reason i don't know)

Yeah it's a pretty volatile thing, I could only get it to work with Pinnacle, and I had that white line too. Didn't a disc come with your Dazzle? Actually come to think of it I myself lost the serial code but I managed to procure the program again though more.. nefarious means

[Chazmobile]

MANY WHELPS, EVEN SIDE.

LEFT SIDE, MANY WHELPS. NOW, HANDLE IT!

@Jordan: Get off my case I also play Bang in CT, Rachel in CS1 and Anji in GGXXAC. I use Asuka in SFxT. So yeah, get blown up scrub.

[Kujikawa]

Then theres UMvC3 aswell.

Don't talk shit to me foolish boy.

[-Kid]

Ragna's j.C is beyond stupid.

This is going to be like the 5th time i'd have to explain this to people.

Ragna's j.C buff was very much needed. As you all know, ragna has NO projectiles, His j.C is his ONLY way of getting in, especially against characters like Mu, Lambda and Rachel. Every other character in the game has projectiles OR a way to deal with/avoid projectiles...Ragna is probably the only character that suffers against projectiles, as he has none, or a legit way to deal with it.

This "buff" in Carnage Scissors still didn't help his cause. Now tell me, if he didn't have this j.C buff, how the heck would he get in? even with the buff, it's still very hard to get in. Fair enough it's stupid against characters like tager, but you need to look at Ragna vs the world, not ragna vs tager.

Ragna is not as good as people exclaim him to be. The only thing he has in his favour is a very good DP, and consistant moderate to high damage. ._.

Edited April 14, 2012 by -Kid

[Chazmobile]

Then theres UMvC3 aswell.

Don't talk shit to me foolish boy.

But Morrigan is low tier yo :3

@Kid: That's what i'm saying dude on the last statement, but add an amazing set of normals to that list *fist bump*

Edited April 14, 2012 by Chazmobile

[Kujikawa]

Good normals, good damage, DP.

He lacks in Projectiles and Mix-Ups, it can be very hard for a Ragna to win in high level play.

Ragna vs The World? The world isn't full of zoners, it still needs nurf.

Maybe I'm just salty cuz' the Plat vs Ragna match-up is so bad.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Kujikawa

[-Kid]

Good normals, good damage, DP.

He lacks in Projectiles and Mix-Ups, it can be very hard for a Ragna to win in high level play.

Ragna vs The World? The world isn't full of zoners, it still needs nurf.

Maybe I'm just salty cuz' the Plat vs Ragna match-up is so bad.

Good normals? Decent, more like. 5B is good, but not as good as people think it is. Tager's 5B beats my 5B AND 5C, because of my extended hitbox on both moves.

The world isn't full of zoners, i didn't say that. I'm just saying that people need to think about how characters fair in other match ups, rather than just one.

Even platinum vs ragna is difficult for ragna.

[Kujikawa]

How so?

Ragna dominates Platinum mostly.

Generally is one of her worst match-ups. 4.5/5.5 or 4/6 depending on your items.

[-Kid]

I agree that the match is mostly in Ragna's favour, that being said, it is still pretty difficult because:

- The tide of the match can indeed change depending on the items Plat has. This can easily put ragna on the defensive..if you take into account instant overheads with the frying pan. Ontop of that, you have VERY good swallow moon mix up, a command throw and very good oki.

-Ragna's have to be careful about throwing out a DP, as most characters look to bait that anyway. If you have very good blockstrings with Plat, i'll basically be sitting there all day, amongst the mix up, until i see a gap, or i try to get gutsy and DP.

-She has projectilesssss lol. (Not much of a big deal with plat actually)

Despite what the match-up is, i honestly feel that the match could go either way, with ragna winning, or plat winning.

[Chazmobile]

Every matchup in Extend can go either way. Shoutouts to well balanced games.