[CSE] Rachel vs. Tager

[[SpA]Relentless]

8D/236B on reaction, aircombo.

[gli]

Okay. Got me there. But there is still a chance of failing to hit confirm etc.

So basically yes. 3C = dangerous. But in case you derp there is that huge wall of text.

[gamester]

I've noticed with Tager's J.2C (I think it is that move, the one where he sticks his arm/elbow out and falls on top of you from the air) I find delaying my 6A a bit can smack him out of it from time to time, as he seems to float for a slight second when he uses it from what I see. Sometimes I end up doing 6A as soon as I see Tager using that and then ends up falling on me, I find waiting a tad or just before he might hit me to use 6A and stop him from falling on you.

I'm still trying to test now just to be sure but Tager seems to be doing that move and I only have the one controller. Sorry about this post being quickly thrown together, just thought I'd mention it before I forget.

[Tari]

Tager's j.2C is his elbow drop. The move is designed to trick people into throwing an anti-air too early and getting counterhit combo'd.

You can step or backdash out of the way and punish him after he whiffs the move, you can delay 6A, and you can j.C him out of the move. Take your pick, really. Wind and summons gives you even more options to deal with it as well. 6A tends to be one of the riskier answers just because it's possible to misread his move and time it wrong, but I suppose it's not that hard to get it right.

edit: I forgot about IB punish and cat chair. Hah.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Tari

[gamester]

I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. I normally do 6A when he does the attack though, I'll look into trying other options every so often

[Herbal Grey]

trying to 6a him out of j.2c is a bad option, because if he doesn't j.2c then you're screwed because you were too busy waiting for him to j.2c. most of the time it's better to not expect it and throw out 6a at the normal time, rather than delay it. if he j.2c's then you can still ib and punish. or cat chair ;P

EDIT: if tager spaces the j.2c perfectly, your 6a won't recover in time and he'll hit you. In general, i would continue trying to space tager rather than punish his jumps because trying to 6a him is a risk. If you continue spacing (back dashing), then tager is still sad, because you'll keep whacking him with lobelias and/or pumpkin and keeping him far away, where he can't hurt you.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Herbal Grey

[kotokot]

does works 6A 2D against tagers j.2C?

[Tari]

does works 6A 2D against tagers j.2C?

I'm inclined to say no, with possibly a few exceptions with close positioning, due to, if I recall rightly, Tager becoming completely vertically immobile during the j.2C startup. I've no way to test it at the moment, though.

[TD]

this may be old but its still relevant *wonders if ppl saw it already...*:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meImyfBpuzE&feature=related

[Zoular]

How about, Lobelia C if he is further away from you, or pumpkin > 8D. Lobelia B > 8D, 2C for a CH too.

I've tried jumping to grab/j.C only to get slammed back to the ground.

[Alex073088]

From Playing this match-up i gotta say that i believe atomic collider may actually need a nerf. Im sure it was buffed up to make tagers new combos possible. But neutral game wise it pulls in way to fast and from very far away. You can be full screen magnatized an in the air and be pulled in for a 4k combo easily. You can also be back dashing out with wind and he has time to pull you in before rachel touches the ground from her backdash. Also you doing 6c plus wind gives the same effect if you are trying to space out a sledge or punish 5D mashing.

[Rele]

Don't do any of the above if magnetized? Rachel's very good at neutral in this MU so the goal should be not to get magnetized at all.

[mAc Chaos]

tager too strong

[TD]

*sigh*

[Alex073088]

Don't do any of the above if magnetized? Rachel's very good at neutral in this MU so the goal should be not to get magnetized at all.

How is rachel very good in neutral at this match you act as though spark block doesnt exist, 5d drive doesnt mag you, rachel can eaisly punish or deal with slegde. Everytime you place an item tager has the oppurtunity to gain ground. there only so much running away you can do before you run out of wind. And rachel deals very little damage. Of course the goal is not to get magnatized but tager does have ways to get you magnatized. When i mentioned the above that was to Prove the atomic collider is a bit to strong and way to easy to use once the opponent is magnatized.

[sinder]

*sigh*

you should not be sighing, as you are their leader

but even i chuckled a little

[Alex073088]

And people wonder why Im such an asshole sometimes. Maybe Ill just keep my helpful advice to myself. There are obviously other aspects of this game that should be crystal clear that other fellow rachels seem to not get as it is anyway, like bursting the very first time someone touches you and doing random j.2c from super jump heights having it whiff in the corner, already used you burst and take an unscaled full corner combo(not once but twice actually having been recorded on stream who fuckin knows how often this happens off stream or in netplay). Or saying mu-12 vs rachel is in rachels favor in extend, Or that 4B is not a meaty and someone can on reaction dp or mash on you. etc etc.

Atleast the information is there for those that didnt previously know that backdashing with wind after a gagdet finger still hold tremondous

risk.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Alex073088

[Mucky]

From Playing this match-up i gotta say that i believe atomic collider may actually need a nerf. Im sure it was buffed up to make tagers new combos possible. But neutral game wise it pulls in way to fast and from very far away. You can be full screen magnatized an in the air and be pulled in for a 4k combo easily. You can also be back dashing out with wind and he has time to pull you in before rachel touches the ground from her backdash. Also you doing 6c plus wind gives the same effect if you are trying to space out a sledge or punish 5D mashing.

i agree, they should make it so tager has absolutely no chance in this matchup

[Alex073088]

FOr those of us that are trying to do well in this match-up, here are some not listed counter methods:

1. If you predict tager will superjump and do his normals that help him move him forward while aerial. Air grab it, 3k or so combo

2. If lobelia rods are around tager first condition him to think you will sword iris, by of course doing so. Then set him up by not doing sword iris later in the round if and when you started to notice him attempting to slegding them to gain ground punish him preferrably with 6C with wind or fork.

3. Safe your wind, always leave atleast one bar in any given neutral situation when not magnatized to wind away from the corner, your dead if he gets you anyway. So fuck negative penalty

4.J.2c with wind any obvious attempts to atomic collider you when your aerial.

5. When approaching from the sky be very cautions of attacking to soon due to his backdash. Same applies in the corner as well after there are a bit of gaps.

6. If your tager player is really jump happy, instead of trying to 6a him run underneath of him to get better position. This also works well against jump happy hakumens also.

7. J.a>j.2c is the safe method to pressure tager after a knockdown with frog oki.

8. Bait the shit outta tager 100% with Ca, no matter how desperate you are to gain life lead. His Ca>rapid>combo can turn the tides even more unfavorably

Edited June 30, 2012 by Alex073088