[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Kujikawa]

5CC > 5D > 2D > 66 > 2C > Orb > 5CC...

Either orb only hit's once and Noel air techs or I hit twice but get pushed back far for 5CC to land.

Do I have to strongly delay orb or something?

Thanks

[StarGazer]

Delay the orb for like as much as you can, to make things easier go for 5B 6A 2D > 2C 214AD > 5CC route instead.

[Bibiquadium]

Noel specifically makes it a bit harder but I use her as an example, training on Noel makes your combos viable on everyone with the exception of Jin and Valk and the lower you do it the more hits the orb does and the more dmg it does and more heat is given at the end of the combo.

[HiagoX]

I hit twice but get pushed back far for 5CC to land.

Hitting twice is the way to go, but you need to dash 5CC right after she wallbounds.

[excelence]

5CC > 5D > 2D > 66 > 2C > Orb > 5CC...

Either orb only hit's once and Noel air techs or I hit twice but get pushed back far for 5CC to land.

Do I have to strongly delay orb or something?

Thanks

I think, you're delaying the orb too long for the push back to occur, iirc don't let the orb hit for full or the D follow up will give horrible pushback, get your timing just in between she can air tech and 2 hit pushback.

Similar things also happen on Mu iirc.

[Bibiquadium]

Actually, on Mu and many others, you don't need the push* back, but that does less DMG, getting pushed back means you are on the right track and you got all the hits.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Bibiquadium

[excelence]

Even if it push me back about half screen away from the corner? I've never been able to follow up 665cc if this happen .... is that how her combos supposed to works?

And that horrible pushback only happen on those 2 afaik.

[Bibiquadium]

There's a proper push back and a and bad one, the good one a small dash in is more than enough. If you just stay in place and don't even dash and do 5CC right away its less damage/heat and only works on a small selection of the cast. And also, the huge push back is on everyone, its just a timing mistake.

[Kujikawa]

Thanks a lot for the quick and detailed replies, didn't get back cuz' TTT2 came out lol.

Pretty much got it down but I'm using Ragna as the dummy. It's weird, but I find it easier to just hit a lvl2 orb instead -- More practice and I should be fine...

Might get some games up for the Critique thread soon, no doubt you'll see me drop it a lot =P

[Bibiquadium]

Yeah, with Ragna you can literally just do 5CC 5D 2D 2C 236A~D[3] 5CC /followup without even moving or any timing, if not, it may be input lag. Its the same with Mu Platinum and a few others which I don't rem anymore.

[Cryingvoid]

Hey guys! I hope you are still all well and furry!

Here is what I wanted to ask... What if I want to, say, be all that cool and do a running parry?

How is it better to do? 66>4+AB>6 ?

[StarGazer]

It doesn't have any special noted effects, just do it the you are comfortable with the most. i do it as 66 > 4A+B > 6 because i'm a big dash canceling freak.

[Kujikawa]

It doesn't have any special noted effects, just do it the you are comfortable with the most. i do it as 66 > 4A+B > 6 because i'm a big dash canceling freak.

Same way I do it, it's pretty easy after doing it a couple of times. Being a Tekken player I do still sometimes accidently cancel it into a backdash and get caught out lol.

[Cryingvoid]

It is god damn hard doing it while running... Feeling in damn sf3 with those multiple parries... I always fail pressing the lever down or the like.

Parrying off blockstun gives some nice backsteps instead for some yummy punish... Of myself I mean... But I'll try hard anyway ) wish they'll buff her combos back at cp! Extend may be the most ballanced, but many characters became boring after loosing their momuntums! Tao and makoto are good examples... Tao may have been hated for her loops, but she's just boring without! No fun without her midscreen 4K and the same with Makoto. Hope they'll understand that!

Symm, jam is the cutest!

Edited September 22, 2012 by Cryingvoid

[Kujikawa]

I assume your on pad? I find it quite easy on stick (I can't even stand and parry on pad lol), it can be difficult to react to an opponents dash or air dash and successful running parry it, but it still looks cool when it's pulled off. Just keep practicing. Never played CS1/CS2 Makoto which I'm sad about =(

Makoto and Jam are both equally cute :3

Edited September 23, 2012 by Kujikawa

[Cryingvoid]

Now that's unexpected. It should be peice of cake on ps3 pad, as directionals are separated giving no room for fucking it up. I was talking about classic square gate stick, where it is relatively easy to tap down accidentally, since its responsiveness and no restriction gate guides (unlike in octagonal gate). Anyway, I'm getting better lately. I purposely tilt higher :D

Also, back to stargazer, I've recently found, that parry itself cancels the run inertion lol. So there seems to be no need for 4ab pervertions at all! XD

[StarGazer]

True, parry can be done during dashing so no need for 4A+B. Dunno about X360 but dash parry is easy on PS3 D-pad and square gate sticks for me. The bad part with dash parry is that its easy to safe jump in extend which makes you get punished for doing something cool :/

I'm afraid that CP Makoto will play like EX, too early to say that but yeah, thats what i can conclude from what i've read so far. RIP Makoto 2011

[Yazumatto]

Where are you reading this from? Or are you just making assumptions from the information we already have? I'm not gonna freak out just yet. All I hope for is something mid-tier or higher. I don't mind working for my wins but EX Makoto was taxing my patience for the game.

At least everything around Makoto changed so the game will feel fresh. Plus, swag coat.

[Cryingvoid]

But basically she is not half bad in csex. she can do 5K pretty much easily in the corner and easy 3.5K midscreen.

Her attack boxes got nerfed like hell, yes. That's got to be changed back:

rape:

csex - cs2

2A

5B

6B

3C

6C

j.A

j.CC

j.2C

But aside from that she is a strong character in CSEX im my opinion, after having subbed her for a couple of months.

[StarGazer]

Forget about tiers for a sec and think about Makoto, she was designed as a close range character with a lot of tools and tricks to get in close and support her game. In CS1 her tools were pretty strong and she can win her matches by like only relying on them, in CS2 her tools got tuned down so she have to play using both fundamentals and her tools to win, in EX her tools got tuned down even more so they are useless now and all what she got is like pure fundamentals and so far from the changes i read in CP so far it looks like we gonna follow this same trend. Personally I find Makoto bad the way ASW is going with her in EX as these changes will make her more boring, less diverse than the rest of the cast, and have less character skill cap.

But basically she is not half bad in csex. she can do 5K pretty much easily in the corner and easy 3.5K midscreen.

Her attack boxes got nerfed like hell, yes. That's got to be changed back

You can't evaluate a character just by looking at the reward, plus this is only the maximum damage not the average damage, okay her damage is good but not GREAT.

Only 2A hitbox nerf hurts, the rest is negligible.

But aside from that she is a strong character in CSEX im my opinion, after having subbed her for a couple of months.

No she isn't, a character that have fair~somewhat disadvantageous match up with everyone and ugly match ups with some is not strong. Decent will describe her more precisely since she does everything good but she have nothing strong to make her shine like the rest of the characters.

[Cryingvoid]

Well, I really see it a bit other way, but I entirely agree that CS2 Makoto was very close to perfection. But my general position is that Top tiers are bad. I am maining Mu who is one hell of a top tier in EX. with hellish hitboxes and 5.5K average dmg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FQ76-Eqn60

And I sincerely think she needs her nerfs. The same with Makoto. CS1 you say? Did you see Tsujikawa's CS1 combo vids? For 10-11K DMG off midscreen starters? This IS broken and needs revision. CS2, well, the finest Makoto, yes. But again, top tier... I dunno, too straightforwardly strong. Both damage and hitboxes. The char is no fun when all the specs are too high. Like, say, Ragna... what's the fun of winning as such a character? Now she's relatively nice in my opinion. I just look at Goro matches, brushing asses of half of Japan :D

Edited September 24, 2012 by Cryingvoid

[Kujikawa]

Ragna's specs arn't all high. His mix-up is trash and his damage isn't too strong without 50 meter.

Same as Mu, she has a high damage output, but she also lacks in mix-up and a few other things.

Makoto better in Extend then CS2? No, she is arguably the worst character in the game, which doesn't mean she is incapable of winning anything, it just means she has a harder time doing so. BB is quite balanced.

I've only played Extend Makoto and never really faught anyone outside my friends lis (Which none where Makoto players) in CS2, so I can't really say much on how she worked and compare that to her changes. I like EX Makoto playstyle, it's no Jam, but I find it enjoyable.

[Cryingvoid]

You don't get my point Sym. Awesomely Fast normals with awesome reach and great damage are enough to call him an all high specs character in general. His mixup is fine when done by right hands. Not the scariest, but enough to be a top tier with all other strongs. Mu's mixups and frametraps complemented by her zoning will leave you clueless, and every single jab will lead to either 4K or to fine anal frametrap okis. But what makes her top is her fast reach and incr. damage on the first hand.

Where the hell do you get that nonsense? You're contradicting yourself, if the game is balanced, she shouldn't be worst. That's really a weak point. Try backing up this statement with some facts, otherwise it sounds super retarded, even from such an adorable userpic...

So why don't we try actually DOING it first, before opening our mouth, then? Please advise what you think.

[Kujikawa]

You don't get my point Sym. Awesomely Fast normals with awesome reach and great damage are enough to call him an all high specs character in general. His mixup is fine when done by right hands. Not the scariest, but enough to be a top tier with all other strongs. Mu's mixups and frametraps complemented by her zoning will leave you clueless, and every single jab will lead to either 4K or to fine anal frametrap okis. But what makes her top is her fast reach and incr. damage on the first hand.

Where the hell do you get that nonsense? You're contradicting yourself, if the game is balanced, she shouldn't be worst. That's really a weak point. Try backing up this statement with some facts, otherwise it sounds super retarded, even from such an adorable userpic...

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. Saying ALL ASPECTS includes mix-up. I never said Ragna and Mu are bad characters, they are very strong characters. You clearly don't understand what the word means. Saying that Ragna has awesome reach and great damage equals all specs high, means your not considering all the other aspects.

I never said they weren't top tier.

No. No I'm not contradicting myself. I said the game is quite balanced, not completely balanced where there is no top tier or bottom tier (Practically impossible). The fact that Makoto is one of the worst characters within the game (THIS DOES NOT MEAN SHES BAD) and is still strong and capable of winning against all the cast means this game is balanced.

Please do not start talking about things I did not say, your making up crap. Try and read next time before replying, okay? Or is that too difficult for you?

Edited September 24, 2012 by Kujikawa

[Cryingvoid]

Okay, but you still don't make sense. What other specs? Ragna's mixup is pretty nice when used smartly. What the hell other specs? You mean zoning or what? Its obvious he doesn't. He's a rush character, so what other specs do you mean? Mu's mixup is godlike when powered by steins or 50 metered, and that IS enough. So don't jump out of nowhere posting posts, contradicting others, which say practically nothing. Ragna does have high specs in relatively most aspects, when other chars lack or excel at something to this or that extend in blazblue. That's the gameplay's trademark. Where ragna, cs1&2 makoto, and cs noel were/are exceptions.

Stop with this nonsense, back up your words first, and prove she is the worst. You've said nothing of value so far.