[CSE] Noel Vermillion Beginner Question Thread

[LunaKage]

No problem man, it's what I'm here for :3

[Alpha152]

Thor combos are my specialty :3 There are many instances for using Thor and even though the damage doesn't justify using 50 meter, the heat gain and corner carry certainly make up for it. Most of these combos are situational but I think they're worth knowing:

[max range] 5B > 5C > Thor > 662A > 6C etc. (useful if you know 5/2C > RC > 665A will whiff but still want to optimize damage)

any air hit-confirm > Thor > 662A etc. (this is especially good because you can turn any air hit-confirm into a 2.5~3k combo and gain around 30 meter plus oki)

[if you're in the corner, max range] 5B/C > Thor > 662A (same concept as the first combo and you get to put your opponent in the corner)

5/2C > RC > 665A is the optimal meter combo but Thor is an alternative in situations where that combo wouldn't normally work. Aside from that it's stylish and can bait bursts

And please continue to ask questions, the more people ask, the more we get to think about and understand concepts and mechanics we normally wouldn't think about. In general, it increases our knowledge and makes us better players

[LunaKage]

Oh and don't forget a couple of my favorite combos:

Stuff > 5C > TK Thor > Max Range Fenrir

Grab > Thor > Max Range Fenrir

These work anywhere on the screen, are easy to do, and are unburstable after thor hits, Thor > Fenrir is perfect for ending a match if you have 100 heat to burn. But I wouldn't suggest doing this if your opponent will survive it though, since you'll be wasting 100 heat that you could have used for Counter Assaulting or Rapid Canceling.

[Brak Legacy X]

Ah, roger that Alpha! (:

And yeah, I've got to remember to use Thor sometimes when I've air hit-confirm the opponent near the corner. There have been many times when I've been able to land a j.C on an opponent that had little HP left, but forgot to combo it into either RB > RC > RB (when they have nearly no HP left) or Thor > 662A > stuff.

And yes, whenever I have more questions, I won't hesitate to ask.

Also, I gotta learn those 5/2C > RC > 665A combos. Never tried them before, but I can see how they'd be very useful depending on your situation. (i.e. midscreen, where using Thor instead wouldn't have much effect since you wouldn't be able to pick them up with 662A).

[Brak Legacy X]

And oh yeah, I always seem to forget that I link Fenrir to Thor for an assured victory if the opponent has low health.

I really need to review the fundamentals of Noel. @_@

[Klasher]

Any basic combos for a beginner and important things about Noel that I should know?

I'm still new to fighting games (normally play RPGs) so it's hard for me to perform alot of these combos (from the wiki and the combo topic)

Should I suck it up and train/practice the combos? (I mean, after failing for a period of time... it's not really fun anymore)

[Brak Legacy X]

Klasher, I was in your situation just a few months ago. (BBCSEX is my first 2D fighter and yeah, I also normally play RPGs LOL)

What I did was going on to Challenge mode to practice the basics of Noel. Learn the basics first since most of her combos contain the same patterns in them so familiarizing yourself with those patterns will help you greatly.

After being able to do some of her challenge combos, you can try some of the harder stuff in the combo thread. When you've got that handled down, try a few matches with some CPU players or some casual matches with a friend or two to get used to it.

But most importantly, before trying to learn combos, you should familiarize yourself with Noel's normals. Learning the basics of the basics is what I'd consider most important.

But then again, I'm just another Noel scrub who's also still learning, so be sure to listen to the advice of the others here. xP

[Alpha152]

Could someone tell me how Noel's 2D cancelled into Chain Revolver follow-ups work? The wiki says 10~18f can cancel into follow-ups but she would still be in start up. Is it 10~18f after landing since she's airborne until 30f?

I'm curious as to how big of a frame gap there is between 2D and d.5A

[Litherain-XIII]

well im not sure in exact numbers in terms of frame data in this situation but as far as i know the gap is enough to be hit out of chain revolver if your 2D was blocked. a d.5A most likely would be beat out before you could normally throw it out afterwards. for example if bang blocked your 2D im pretty sure he will hit a 2A that would pretty much beat any follow up you choose after a blocked 2D if im not mistaken. could be wrong though but this is from personal experience unless he IB the 2D then its for sure d.5A will be beaten out clean.

[HexaNoid]

The wiki says 10~18f can cancel into follow-ups but she would still be in start up. Is it 10~18f after landing since she's airborne until 30f?

It's 10-18f after landing, yeah.

[Alpha152]

Ok, but now I'm apparently doing bad math

I get a 13f gap between a standing blocked 2D > d.5A so I should be able to punish with 5B but when I test it out there is a max 7f gap. Any idea where the mistake is?

[LunaKage]

I'm not sure honestly, I always kinda wondered that myself.

But that's what the mook said, and it always said something similar, so basically instead of worrying too much about it I just told myself "Drive on block sucks"

A blocked 2D can ruin your day, but a d.4D is a good effort to try and make it safer, remember though that d.2D cannot cancel into d.4D(for some reason). If you have meter it's not a bad idea to 2D > d.623D > Rapid, since that can take a primer, and it also frame traps really well, it's still beaten by DPs though.

[Raging Ghost]

When starting off as Noel, what should I keep in mind about her? You know, stuff like best tools, pokes, strategies and all that material.

[LunaKage]

When starting off as Noel, what should I keep in mind about her? You know, stuff like best tools, pokes, strategies and all that material.

The bare bones crash course:

5A = Fastest poke, shitty range, use when close as hell to your opponent.

2A = Second fastest poke, medium range(By Noel standards anyway), use this when you want to sacrifice a frame of speed for a bit more range.

5B = Main Spacing tool, medium-far range(By Noel Standards), use this to fish for counter hits at a small distance.

5C = Secondary Spacing tool, Far range(By Noel standards) but is a bit slower than 5B, however it can be used for a similar purpose.

6B = Overhead

6B(While in drive state) = Overhead

2B = Low

2C = Low

3C = Low (Can be punished if blocked)

6D = Low (Can be punished if Blocked)

6D(While in drive state) = Low (Can be punished if blocked)

2D = Goes over low attacks (Can be punished if blocked)

4D = Goes through high attacks/air moves (Can be punished if Blocked)

6A = Anti-air attack. (Can be punished if it misses, and if not followed up on block)

236A = Close range projectile

236B = Medium Range projectile

236C = Far range projectile

Use those when you want to keep an opponent at a distance, if one hits then you have an opening to run in.

214A = Command grab, only works on a standing opponent, if your opponent ducks under it, you will die.

3C/4D/6C = best starters, if you land these, the resulting combo will hurt like hell. (All of these can be punished on block)

Noel's goal is to keep her enemies close, her staggers are really scary, and since her range is among the worst in the cast, she makes up for that with attacks that are faster than the average character, or with something that makes up for it otherwise (For example, both Noel and Ragna have a 5frame 5A, however Noel's hits crouching, and Ragna's does not, stuff like that).

Noel gets her best damage on Counter Hits, Fatals, and attacks that hit while her opponent is crouching. Hitconfirming is a huge part of playing BlazBlue, and Noel in particular has no hope of winning unless you can make sure you get the most out of the attacks you land. Here are a couple of combos to get you started:

5A > 6A > 6C > 6D > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

3C > 22BC > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

2D > d.6A > d.6C > d.6D > d.6B > d.236D

Fatal 4D > d.6A > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 66C > Delay 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

those are the basics of the basics, and the whole Drive mindgame isn't explained, since that would take a huge ass wall of text to explain in itself., let us know if you have any other questions.

[Raging Ghost]

Thanks for the info.

Also, any strategies against Hakumen, Hazama and Valkenhayn?

Oh, and here's a optional question: where can I find Noel's alternate color palettes?

[HexaNoid]

You should check out the Match-up threads for strategies against those characters or post a question in the relevant thread if doesn't already have the information you want.

As for the colour palettes, you can find them here and here for the DLC.

[Raging Ghost]

You should check out the Match-up threads for strategies against those characters or post a question in the relevant thread if doesn't already have the information you want.

So far, there's only the ''Does it have a DP?'' section filled. Which is why I'm asking here.

[HexaNoid]

Which is why I'm asking here.

This thread is really more for general questions to do with Noel whereas you're asking for information dealing with fighting against different characters which we have separate threads for. For the sake of organisation and the fact that other people may benefit from the information/discuss that arises in there, it'd be a lot better if you could just say something like "how do I deal with X" in X's match-up thread and then we can try and help you out.

[Putin]

3C = Low (Can be punished if blocked)

6D = Low (Can be punished if Blocked)

6D(While in drive state) = Low (Can be punished if blocked)

2D = Goes over low attacks (Can be punished if blocked)

4D = Goes through high attacks/air moves (Can be punished if Blocked)

I take it anyone can punish these on block, no matter what she gatlings after them?

I've had this Noel today who mashed D on me for free because I'm too respectful unless I know I can mash out of something, so I was on my way here to ask if there are any gaps in her D... "pressure".

Yeah I know I'm asking for help AGAINST your character, but I'm sure you're all good people here.

[HexaNoid]

I take it anyone can punish these on block, no matter what she gatlings after them?

I've had this Noel today who mashed D on me for free because I'm too respectful unless I know I can mash out of something, so I was on my way here to ask if there are any gaps in her D... "pressure".

Yeah I know I'm asking for help AGAINST your character, but I'm sure you're all good people here.

Noel's drive pressure is unstoppable. Just hold and hope she doesn't overhead your ass.

Seriously though, like Luna has pointed out, almost everything Noel does in drive can be punished with something as simple as a 5A so you shouldn't fear it too much. There are huge gaps in all of her strings and the reward she gets off a random drive hit has been greatly reduced, so taking a risk and trying to poke her out of a drive move mid-string is definitely worth it in most cases. The only relatively safe option she has would be something like xD > d.4D > d.236D (Bloom Trigger), but even that loses to certain things.

Long story short, learn to disrespect Noels who try and use drive too much since it's not a legit tactic.

[LunaKage]

BEWARE THOUGH

If you time it wrong, you CAN get hit with CH Assault Through, and we get 3.5k midscreen with CH Assault Through.

[TransientFaith]

The cleanest drive blocksting that Noel has is d.5a > d.6a > d.5a which ends really fast, gets trivial damage, no mixup (just hold down back), and is not DP safe.

For some of the slower mixup options, you can actually mash throw through (d.6d > d.6b for low > overhead)

[Putin]

Yo thanks for the info, going straight to the lab to actually get a feel of them.

[Elochai]

Are combos with silencer very dependent on the character you're doing them on? Sometimes it seems I can do 22B more times in a combo against certain characters than others. Is there a general rule of thumb to the amount of 22B's to do before you do 22C?

[LunaKage]

Are combos with silencer very dependent on the character you're doing them on? Sometimes it seems I can do 22B more times in a combo against certain characters than others. Is there a general rule of thumb to the amount of 22B's to do before you do 22C?

Short answer: Yes

Longer Answer:

Silencer depends on character + screen position, Midscreen will get score you less 22Bs than Corner for example.

The worst offenders for Short Silencer Situations are Rachel and Arakune.

Ragna and Tao are usually the most comfortable, and are generally who I practice on.

Tager will normally offer the most Silencer hits, but not usually more than 2 over the average amount that you'd get on Tao/Ragna.