[CSE] PSN Match Finder/GG Thread

[Chaoschao222]

Still funny that you can tech Nu's Astral if comboed, why isn't it an Unblockable?

I'm gonna miss Noel's comboable Astral in Chrono ;(

[Mucky]

tager's astral is comboable but I never do it off combos

[toanenadiz]

Still funny that you can tech Nu's Astral if comboed, why isn't it an Unblockable?

I'm gonna miss Noel's comboable Astral in Chrono ;(

Because they don't want combo into 3C ender > 236D oki > astral. That would make it way too easy to land.

[Chaoschao222]

Oh true, that would be pretty scary, but with other characters getting Astral comboes off 5A, it still seems a bit silly. :P

[Ctrlaltwtf]

stuff

Far easier to input on reaction than Yukikaze, and it counters everything except projectiles. I'm not saying it's amazing but at least it's actually "a legitimate thing that is dangerous" unlike most Astrals.

[mAc Chaos]

You can combo into most astrals though. Wouldn't that make them just as legitimate and dangerous. That means you can just do a normal starter and get an automatic astral. Whereas with Hakumen's and some others you have to just throw it out there and commit to it.

The input is easy but getting the opponent to run into it is another story.

[TD]

Easy way to guarantee death, can often demoralize your opponent, which can help in future victories, are fun to watch; why are they pointless, btw?

easy? did you see the requirements for most of these astrals? besides, the general requirements are pretty shitty too. 100 heat isn't impractical for bb, but saving 100 heat and a burst... pretty sure that's more easy to win with than the astral itself.

demoralize. l think it's more like 'quit, fuck you, don't ever play me again' for most. for the seasoned/stronger minded players, perhaps.

fun is subjective, not much l can say here. l personally think fun = utility not really style, but l do understand how people see astrals as fun.

tl;dr l just think if you can save for astral, you already have a significant chance of winning that match without going balls to the wall and probably losing. but then again l like to win, so of course i'm going to have problems with it.

again, not hating on astrals, but they are not needed

[mAc Chaos]

I've become desensitized to astrals. They're just another distortion to me.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

You can combo into most astrals though. Wouldn't that make them just as legitimate and dangerous. That means you can just do a normal starter and get an automatic astral. Whereas with Hakumen's and some others you have to just throw it out there and commit to it.

The input is easy but getting the opponent to run into it is another story.

No, because you just as easily kill them with a DD 90% of the time.

[toanenadiz]

I never save for an astral. It isn't that hard to end up with 100 heat and a burst (well, I guess it would be hard for you Tempest given how fast you tend to use bursts).

[mAc Chaos]

No, because you just as easily kill them with a DD 90% of the time.

What's that have to do with the astrals though.

Yeah, I don't save either, I pretty much end every match with 8 stars, so I always have enough for one half the time. Not that I ever bother with it.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

What's that have to do with the astrals though.

Yeah, I don't save either, I pretty much end every match with 8 stars, so I always have enough for one half the time. Not that I ever bother with it.

On the exact same moment of the exact same combo, you could enter Carnage Scissors and end the game, or Black Onslaught and end the game. Thus the AH's existence is pointless. There was no "benefit" to being able to do the AH over the DD.

[mAc Chaos]

It's still easier to land. :P

Also that's not true. You could end the game the moment they hit the orange. With Carnage Scissors they would have to be within the range of damage.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

It's still easier to land. :P

Also that's not true. You could end the game the moment they hit the orange. With Carnage Scissors they would have to be within the range of damage.

not necessarily. you can't AH until you've met the conditions AFTER the opponent recovers. This is why you can't combo into them from above 35% hp.

There are *SOME* AH situations that are indeed beneficial. For instance Hazama can kill you off of Bloody Fangs with his.

[mAc Chaos]

Yup.

But here's a list of the number of situations Hakumen can use his for like that:

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Yup.

But here's a list of the number of situations Hakumen can use his for like that:

Tsubaki Pressure

Any Pressure string ever

Anything ever.

[TD]

I never save for an astral. It isn't that hard to end up with 100 heat and a burst (well, I guess it would be hard for you Tempest given how fast you tend to use bursts).

l can't astral. rachel's astral requirements have always been nothing short of ridiculous. it's much more practical in cp but she needs the meter to do damage.

[mAc Chaos]

Tsubaki Pressure

Any Pressure string ever

Anything ever.

Those don't involve comboing into it for a guaranteed way to land it. Anyone can just throw their astral out there randomly and hope it hits. But for Hakumen that's the only thing he can do. That is the difference. Being able to combo into it makes it 10x more useful.

[Chaoschao222]

easy? did you see the requirements for most of these astrals? besides, the general requirements are pretty shitty too. 100 heat isn't impractical for bb, but saving 100 heat and a burst... pretty sure that's more easy to win with than the astral itself.

demoralize. l think it's more like 'quit, fuck you, don't ever play me again' for most. for the seasoned/stronger minded players, perhaps.

fun is subjective, not much l can say here. l personally think fun = utility not really style, but l do understand how people see astrals as fun.

tl;dr l just think if you can save for astral, you already have a significant chance of winning that match without going balls to the wall and probably losing. but then again l like to win, so of course i'm going to have problems with it.

again, not hating on astrals, but they are not needed

Yes easy, for most characters it is not difficult to combo into their Astrals, again, with some being able to do it off 5A. In that regard, looking at Noel, if she has a midscreen combo against an average life character around 35% HP with 100 heat and a burst off 5A, she can do a combo that will kill, but it has a chance to drop, why risk that when you could just do 5A > 6A > 6C > Astral? Granted I know Noel's like... the easiest character to Astral with, but'cha get my point, there are cases where Astrals are the most practical method of killing your opponent.

That sounds like a pretty demoralizing statement, something that'd easily fuck with your opponent's drive to fight.

F is for friends who do stuff together~

[Mucky]

The thing about Hakumen's astral is that people have to watch out for D mash anyway, and most of the tactics used to avoid that also avoid his astral. The only special thing about it is that it catches throws.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

The thing about Hakumen's astral is that people have to watch out for D mash anyway, and most of the tactics used to avoid that also avoid his astral. The only special thing about it is that it catches throws.

Throws.

What do people use to avoid Hakumen's D mash?

[mAc Chaos]

Plus it's a dead giveaway to look out for it when his icon starts flashing.

There's also the thing that makes counters overall weaker than DPs: it's a counter, and not an attack, unlike other astrals.

With an attack, you can actively impose the move on the opponent via mixup and other tactics. But with a counter the opponent has to hit it for you. You have less control over it. If the opponent stands there and does nothing against an attack astral, they get hit. Against Hakumen's astral, you get bodied.

[Mucky]

Throws.

throws.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Plus it's a dead giveaway to look out for it when his icon starts flashing.

There's also the thing that makes counters overall weaker than DPs: it's a counter, and not an attack, unlike other astrals.

With an attack, you can actively impose the move on the opponent via mixup and other tactics. But with a counter the opponent has to hit it for you. You have less control over it. If the opponent stands there and does nothing against an attack astral, they get hit. Against Hakumen's astral, you get bodied.

I'd still say an instant death, 1F (I'm just assuming it's 1F don't kill me) reversal counter Astral is significantly more useful than something like Black Onslaught. You can catch people's pressure strings with Haku-men's AH, you can counter DPs and end the game with it instantly. It's a thing you can actually use that just ends the game. Most times I could do an Astral my combo that leads into it just gets bursted, including Bloody Fangs -> 5c. My point is that at least Haku-men's AH is a "legitimately unique move that does something good." It's a super Yukikaze that counters throws and unblockables. Most other peoples AH are just "DDs that end the game." Sure you can do a reversal with them and win, but you could just as easily done that with your DD in most cases too.

I'd say most of the AH wins I've gotten with Hakumen, I got them by countering a throw. It's just something people don't expect.

(pssst, Haku-mens AH counters throws. People use Throws a lot to get past D mashing)

[mAc Chaos]

Well, let me put it this way.

I've lost count the amount of times I've lost a match from getting combo'd into Black Onslaught.

I can't even remember the last time I died to Hakumen's astral or won with it. I can probably count all of the situations on one hand, going back to CT.