[CSE] Hakumen Combo Thread

[RushingMonkey]

Hmmm, can any variations of that combo be done off Tsubaki or Hotaru?

I think that any corner combo could be adjusted to use that ender. I can't try it right now but something like this should work:

tsubaki > [6C] > 2C sj.B j.2A falling j.2C > 6A 5C > 2C j.B j.2A j.C > re-jump j.2A AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

(maybe skipping that initial sj.B)

---

I did some more testing and while I don't like this ender for corner combos, I think it could be good to extend corner carry combos, and not only from random hits vs airborne opponents. for istance, I was able to tag it at the end of the standard renka-kishuu midscreen bnb, with 2A starter. something like this:

2A > renka (1) kishuu > hop 2C j.B j.2A > AD j.B j.A 2C > j.2A AD j.2A j.C (corner reached at this point) > re-jump j.2A AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

I didn't wrote down dmg and heat gain differences though I think they won't be that great too, but sometimes the rejump ender could help to adjust distance / height issues in order to land the final 5C 3C.

it also works for that midscreen tsubaki combo:

tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C sj.B j.2A AD j.B j.2A j.C > rejump ender

[IndigoNovember]

Hmmm, can any variations of that combo be done off Tsubaki or Hotaru?

It works with FC Hotaru, but I can't get it to work on normal Hotaru.

I think that any corner combo could be adjusted to use that ender. I can't try it right now but something like this should work:

tsubaki > [6C] > 2C sj.B j.2A falling j.2C > 6A 5C > 2C j.B j.2A j.C > re-jump j.2A AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

(maybe skipping that initial sj.B)

I'm pretty sure you have to skip the SJ.B . I can't get the 5C to connect if I include it. From my testing, you are right though, most corner combos can be adjusted to use this ender.

[RushingMonkey]

from the wiki:

Position Reversal

When you are in the corner, these combos will get you out of the corner and put your opponent into the corner.

(2) [starter] > Kishuu > Enma > AD J.2A > J.C [1315 / 0.5]

(damage listed is from 2B starter btw)

I don't know if they're already listed here somewhere but there are some combo possibilities here, as long as you connect that j.C as low as possible:

(3) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A delay j.C > hop gurren > 5C 3C

easiest combo, worst starter I got it to work was 2A>2B [1778 / 1.2]

(2) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A delay j.C > land > AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

2A>2B starter works here too, and gets you [1889 / 1.4], but connecting that AD j.2A is pretty hard. becomes way easier with better starters.

(4) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A hotaru > 2C j.B j.2A j.2A AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

hotaru input must be done from starting side, even if hakumen is already on the other side. again 2A>2B was the worst starter I got it to work for [2277 / 1.9]. with better starters it's possible to add 6C after hotaru wallslam.

[IndigoNovember]

(damage listed is from 2B starter btw)

I don't know if they're already listed here somewhere but there are some combo possibilities here, as long as you connect that j.C as low as possible:

(3) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A delay j.C > hop gurren > 5C 3C

easiest combo, worst starter I got it to work was 2A>2B [1778 / 1.2]

(2) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A delay j.C > land > AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

2A>2B starter works here too, and gets you [1889 / 1.4], but connecting that AD j.2A is pretty hard. becomes way easier with better starters.

(4) [starter] > kishuu > enma > AD j.2A hotaru > 2C j.B j.2A j.2A AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

hotaru input must be done from starting side, even if hakumen is already on the other side. again 2A>2B was the worst starter I got it to work for [2277 / 1.9]. with better starters it's possible to add 6C after hotaru wallslam.

I was going to add these type of combos in, but my execution was too bad to do them at the time (TДT) . Hopefully I'll have more time to finish editing the wiki once finals are over (||´Д`) .

What are your thoughts on the wiki? Any feedback would be appreciated, though I was mostly working on the combo section, so feedback about that section would be most appreciated.

[RushingMonkey]

well, I'd say the combo section is well organized overall, maybe some redundancy when you list both the optimal midscreen re-launch combo and basic 2C into aerial. it should be obvious that if relaunch works, basic aerial combos works too

specific combos, I'm not at home right now so I can't test anything, but this is what I noticed with a quick read:

- CH AA 6A > gurren etc.

it's actually possibile to do the relaunch combo even if you pick up with hop 5A, pretty hard though, but sometimes the opponent is too low for both hop 2C and IAD j.B, and this is the best option (assuming you don't reach the corner midcombo).

also, I think it should be worth noting that 2 out of these 3 combos permit the re-jump ender if you reach the corner at *the end* of the combo:

CH 6A > gurren > hop 5A > j.B j.2A AD j.B j.2A j.C (corner) > land > re-jump j.2A AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

CH 6A > gurren > IAD j.B j.A 2C > j.2A AD j.2A j.C (corner) > land > re-jump j.2A AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

- (2) [starter] > Kishuu > Enma > J.2A > AD J.A > J.B > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [1843 - 2974 / 1.4]

this combo is okay from single hitting starters or enma itself being the starter, but (I may be wrong on this though) if you hitconfirm into enma from most 2-hitters either it doesn't work or is extremely hard. in any case, I think the basic [starter] > enma > falling j.2C > 2C etc. should be listed at least. (and again, this permit re-jump ender in the corner from single hitting starters)

- I think midscreen tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C route we discussed a few pages ago should be listed too

- (3) Forward Throw > Kishuu > Enma > AD J.C > Gurren > Hop 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [2762 / 1.5]

I actually didn't even know this combo, but if the damage listed is right, it seems way sub-optimal for 3 stars, with throw > gurren BNB doing 2.4k, just 300 dmg less.

for 3 stars you have throw > renka (1) kishuu > 2C blabla relaunch and I'm pretty sure it's around 3.4k

- zanshin > gurren combos?

Edited June 6, 2012 by RushingMonkey

[IndigoNovember]

well, I'd say the combo section is well organized overall, maybe some redundancy when you list both the optimal midscreen re-launch combo and basic 2C into aerial. it should be obvious that if relaunch works, basic aerial combos works too

Good to hear. I wanted to list out the easy combos for those who don't have the timing down for the J.A > J.B & J.B > J.A re-launch combos. I'm thinking of color coding the combos so it's easier to tell at a glance what each combo is (advanced or basic). Hopefully that'll help get rid of some redundancy by telling you which combos you can skip over.

- (2) [starter] > Kishuu > Enma > J.2A > AD J.A > J.B > 2C > SJ.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [1843 - 2974 / 1.4]

this combo is okay from single hitting starters or enma itself being the starter, but (I may be wrong on this though) if you hitconfirm into enma from most 2-hitters either it doesn't work or is extremely hard. in any case, I think the basic [starter] > enma > falling j.2C > 2C etc. should be listed at least. (and again, this permit re-jump ender in the corner from single hitting starters)

Yeah, you're right about it not working with A starters. I'll go add in the old combo as a universal.

- I think midscreen tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C route we discussed a few pages ago should be listed too

I can't get this to work universally. I did not consider character specific combos a high priority. I'll add it in later after I have more time to do testing.

- (3) Forward Throw > Kishuu > Enma > AD J.C > Gurren > Hop 2C > J.B > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C [2762 / 1.5]

I actually didn't even know this combo, but if the damage listed is right, it seems way sub-optimal for 3 stars, with throw > gurren BNB doing 2.4k, just 300 dmg less.

for 3 stars you have throw > renka (1) kishuu > 2C blabla relaunch and I'm pretty sure it's around 3.4k

Once again, this is an issue of universability. Throw > Renka fails on Arakune and I think the combo fails on another character as well. This combo does not. It is true, however, that this is a so-so combo. Maybe I should take it out (¬_¬) .

- zanshin > gurren combos?

Got side-tracked at the time and completley forgot about them. Will do.

[RushingMonkey]

about the midscreen tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C combo:

we talked about this with dioxideUniversa some pages ago: he said (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13856-EX-Hakumen-Extend-Combo-Guide&p=1318267&viewfull=1#post1318267) the only character he couldn't get it to work was Makoto, and we were talking about getting *the relaunch* to work on her. I will re-test this, but I'm 99% sure that

tsubaki > hop kishuu 2C > super jump > j.B j.2A AD j.B j.2A j.C (> re-jump ender if corner is reached)

is actually universal, and it does the same damage as hop>gurren route *with relaunch* (~3.8k iirc)

so I would list that as universal, and relaunch variation noting that it doesn't work on Makoto (and being pretty difficult on a bunch of others). I think in this case some redundancy is allowed, the optimal combo being pretty hard and not working on one single character

about the throw combo, my bad, I didn't know forward throw > renka wasn't universal T_T tbh I never actually use that. the only combo I use from midscreen throws besides gurren bnb is throw > kishuu > hop renka(1) kishuu if I think I'm close enough to the corner and I want to spend 4 stars (though I think this isn't unversal too).

[IndigoNovember]

about the midscreen tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C combo:

we talked about this with dioxideUniversa some pages ago: he said (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13856-EX-Hakumen-Extend-Combo-Guide&p=1318267&viewfull=1#post1318267) the only character he couldn't get it to work was Makoto, and we were talking about getting *the relaunch* to work on her. I will re-test this, but I'm 99% sure that

tsubaki > hop kishuu 2C > super jump > j.B j.2A AD j.B j.2A j.C (> re-jump ender if corner is reached)

is actually universal, and it does the same damage as hop>gurren route *with relaunch* (~3.8k iirc)

so I would list that as universal, and relaunch variation noting that it doesn't work on Makoto (and being pretty difficult on a bunch of others). I think in this case some redundancy is allowed, the optimal combo being pretty hard and not working on one single character

Interesting, I was never able to get it to work on several characters... I'll add it when I'm done with finals.

about the throw combo, my bad, I didn't know forward throw > renka wasn't universal T_T tbh I never actually use that. the only combo I use from midscreen throws besides gurren bnb is throw > kishuu > hop renka(1) kishuu if I think I'm close enough to the corner and I want to spend 4 stars (though I think this isn't unversal too).

Spark mentioned if you are in midscreen you have to Kishuu > Kishuu for some characters. It's on my list of things to test.

[RushingMonkey]

I did some tests for you:

- throw > renka fails only against Arakune

- throw > kishuu > hop > renka doesn't work on Rachel and Plat. against Plat it works from backthrow though

- I can confirm that

(4) hop tsubaki > hop kishuu > 2C j.B j.2A AD j.B j.2A j.C [3855 / 0.9]

is universal. with re-jump ender it's [4403 / 1.9], carries from P1 position to the right corner

[RushingMonkey]

uhm, I was trying this combo Spark posted a while ago:

(4) [big starter] > renka (1) gurren > IAD j.B j.A 5C kishuu > 2C j.B j.2A AD j.B j.A > 2C j.2A AD j.2A jC

basically it was said that this combo is the combination of renka-gurren route and the relaunch of the usual renka-kishuu route, only possible with very good starters. in fact, I thought it worked only with 5C or naked renka starters... but accidentally I did it with 2C starter and it worked o_O 2C is listed as 90 p1, but this combo doesn't work with other 90 p1 starters such as 5B or CH 3C.

I was under the assumption that a combo that works with a specific starter should work with every other starter that has the same P1, is this wrong or what?

[Spark]

You have to look at the P2 as well.

[alenero]

anyone else is having problems with the third 2c jc, 2a, 2c, 2c in challenge 12? I cant seem to get those commands. Hakumen is always too far from his opponents. Can someone give me some help?

[dioxideUniversa]

Is it 12 or 13? 12 is a throw combo in which there is no 3rd of anything. For 13, super jump for each rep, delay the first j.2a a little longer than the rest, delay all j.2cs as long as possible.

Edited June 13, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[RushingMonkey]

You have to look at the P2 as well.

it seems you're right, seeing that the only other 90 P1 starter that seems to work is j.2C. too bad

by the way, do you guys think is worth it to spend 1 or 2 extra stars to increase corner carry on renka-kishuu combos?

[dioxideUniversa]

It depends on how much meter you're sitting on. You don't need many stars to do commanding damage in the corner, especially since Hakumen gets so much meter back on most all corner combos in CSE. I've often seen high level jp players like Chin do star-heavy corner combos just to put them all the way in the corner. Renka (1) > Kishuu, Hop, 2c > Gurren > Kishuu, 5c > Kishuu, 2c > j.B > j.2a etc is one I've seen him do not infrequently. Particularly if it will get you a knockdown ender vs. a j.C ender it is probably definitely worth considering, but you need to be able to keep them in the corner and apply effective pressure for it to be worth it.

[alenero]

Is it 12 or 13? 12 is a throw combo in which there is no 3rd of anything. For 13, super jump for each rep, delay the first j.2a a little longer than the rest, delay all j.2cs as long as possible.

This seems impossible. Super jumping is complicated, the delays are impossible. If I delay it even a milisecond longer, the opponent wakes up. Any more tips?

I'm still trying though... MUST MASTER MAIN CHARACTER.

[dioxideUniversa]

If you're having trouble super jumping, the biggest help is to let go of the pad or stick (do you use pad or do you have an arcade stick?) after you have hit the button for 2c. Start 2c, reset to neutral, 2c hits, input super jump during hit stop, Hakumen super jumps as soon as hit stop ends. If you're struggling with the super jumps, you are possibly super jumping x frames after hit stop ends, in which case you would not have a very big opportunity to delay the first j.2a.

For delaying the j.2a, the only reason you delay the first one is because there is a lot of untech and a large window to do so. Do not delay any other j.2as, as it is easy to drop them.

Delaying the j.2cs should not be too difficult, but obviously doing it so late that they hit the ground and tech is not going to help. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of tips for this, and it's simply practice makes perfect.

Also: don't mash.

[alenero]

I'm using the vita. Does that mean I can't get really good with the character without the console?

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm using the vita. Does that mean I can't get really good with the character without the console?

Define "really good" and what exactly do you do on the psp version, are you playing against other people?

[dioxideUniversa]

Never touched a Vita's dpad or anything, but if it's as bad as the PSP, it'd likely be pretty difficult. It's already not that easy on a PS3 pad. (See also: what Blade said. Generally probably going to need the console version to actually have people to play against to make getting good even meaningful.)

[lowhunter]

Hello. I don't know if this has already been answered, but I got a question about this BnB combo:

(3) [starter] > Renka (1) > Kishuu, 2C > j.B > j.2A, AD j.B > j.A, 2C > j.B > j.2A, AD j.2A, j.C

I have trouble landing the third j.B . Do I have to super jump here? And when I tried it with super-jumping, I did manage to land a hit and then follow with j.2a, but for some reason after the j.2a the opponent flies into the other direction (flies above me and then behind me). Am I doing something wrong here? Oh, and I used 5C as a starter :3 Thanks in advance ^^

Edited June 14, 2012 by lowhunter

[RushingMonkey]

It depends on how much meter you're sitting on. You don't need many stars to do commanding damage in the corner, especially since Hakumen gets so much meter back on most all corner combos in CSE. I've often seen high level jp players like Chin do star-heavy corner combos just to put them all the way in the corner. Renka (1) > Kishuu, Hop, 2c > Gurren > Kishuu, 5c > Kishuu, 2c > j.B > j.2a etc is one I've seen him do not infrequently. Particularly if it will get you a knockdown ender vs. a j.C ender it is probably definitely worth considering, but you need to be able to keep them in the corner and apply effective pressure for it to be worth it.

yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking... sitting on 5/6 stars seems to happen quite often to me :/

that kind of combo starting with renka(1) kishuu > hop 2C > gurren was exactly what I was testing initially. against a lot of characters though, either gurren was missing completely or I could hit it only by doing something like renka(1) kishuu > walk back > 2C delay gurren. and even then it seemed not very consistent -_-

so I was experimenting some other routes:

(4) [starter] renka (1) kishuu > hop 2C j.B j.2A AD j.B j.A > 5C gurren > hop 5B j.B j.2A AD j.2A j.C

got it to work with 2B starter, but some characters end up too low at the end of the combo to connect that last j.C... have to test it more

another variation I was trying with 2B starter was this:

(5) [starter] renka (1) kishuu > hop 2C j.B j.2A AD j.B j.A > 5C 2C gurren > kishuu hop 2C j.2A AD j.2A j.C

2C > gurren at that distance works a lot better, I couldn't hit it consistently only on ragna, bang and makoto. also, when you hit that gurren you'll have re-charged an entire star already, so this combo actually requires 4 stars at the beginning. with better starters I was able to skip kishuu and add a j.B in the last aerial part (to adjust the height)

[Schneider-X]

(5) [starter] renka (1) kishuu > hop 2C j.B j.2A AD j.B j.A > 5C 2C gurren > kishuu hop 2C j.2A AD j.2A j.C

2C > gurren at that distance works a lot better, I couldn't hit it consistently only on ragna, bang and makoto. also, when you hit that gurren you'll have re-charged an entire star already, so this combo actually requires 4 stars at the beginning. with better starters I was able to skip kishuu and add a j.B in the last aerial part (to adjust the height)

You need to delay the gurren for it to hit on Ragna and Makoto after the 2C, for Bang the combo will always fail. Also this combo can work with a 2A starter and you don't need the extra kishuu after gurren, you can just hop 2C j.B j.2A AD j.2A j.C instead and save a star.

[RushingMonkey]

I'm sure I've landed that combo at least once on bang during my tests. it's just random :\

and yeah, about 2A starter, that's what I said, with better starters you get to skip kishuu and add j.B to adjust the height. 2A is better than 2B for haku