[CSE] Hakumen Combo Thread

[BladeOfJustice7]

It's a way of saying "make them respect you and your pressure/oki", by default most players don't respect you nor your characters oki/pressure. SO they try to get out of it or knock you out of it as soon as it is initiated. Your job is to make them realize that they must block your pressure and oki otherwise there will be greater consequences for not doing so for mashing or trying to jump out.

[mAc Chaos]

Alright, I'll be straight up. What the hell does keep the honest mean, make sure they respect my pressure?

It means make them play legit instead of rely on stupid bullshit.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

It means don't let Tager backwards roll 720 you in the corner.

Haku's mix-up is pretty much garbage. Probably his single weakest trait. His only good low/high moves require stars, which gimp subsequent combos you might get off them. His only low you can combo off of non-ch is his 2B. His only normal high is 6B which can't be comboed off of at all.

Gurren is always a risk cuz it can be punished by a lot of stuff on IB, and I find that people usually do IB it.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[FatalCounter]

Me too, I started learning Hakumen 2 weeks ago. As I said before here he was one of my favorite characters. Unfortunately I could not play him efficiently w/o a stick. I can say that I am very impressed with my performance, his combos aren't that difficult (I think they make them easier in CP) except one. I really enjoy him and I love his footsies game since I am originately a SF player. I am pretty good at predicting attacks with D moves since I am an old Gouken, Kasumi (KOF) and Geese (CvS2) player

But there is one combo I can't get most of the time, is the dash jA > jB after jB > j2A. My main issue is that I am used to the IAD jCC Tsubaki combo (faster and more hitsun), can someone help me? a video?

Edit: another thing in the corner, after ... Renka > Kishuu > 6C > 6A > 2C > sj2A > falling j2C > 2C > j2A > dash j2A > jC > 5C > 3C Is this the most damaging meterless combo I can get from a bad starter (2B or 2A)?

Edited April 12, 2013 by FatalCounter

[Ctrlaltwtf]

another thing after ... Renka > Kishuu > 6C > 6A > sj2A > falling j2C > 2C > j2A > dash j2A > 5C > 3C Is this the most damaging meterless combo I can get after this from a bad starter (2B or 2A)?

That does 3868 (and how is meterless if it uses Renka and Kishuu?)

I can do this for 4222

2A > Renka > Kishuu > 6C > 2C > sj2A > j2C > 2C > sj2A > j2C > 2C > sj2A > ad j2A > jC > 6A > 5C > 3C

[FatalCounter]

That does 3868 (and how is meterless if it uses Renka and Kishuu?)

I can do this for 4222

2A > Renka > Kishuu > 6C > 2C > sj2A > j2C > 2C > sj2A > j2C > 2C > sj2A > ad j2A > jC > 6A > 5C > 3C

I am bad, I was thinking about super? I should learn your combo though, it is better.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Shippu's pretty much reserved for killing blows or Mugen combos. It's rarely ever a good idea otherwise. Half your stars for 1000 damage. Not to mention it sends your opponent flying away from you which is counterproductive most of the time. For other charactes super enders are a good idea because they don't need to use their Heat just to land BnBs.

[FatalCounter]

TBH I never use Shippu except from pushining a zoner or someone doing unsafe stuffs pretty far from me. I prefer Yukikaze when I can read my opponent's attacks? Can you give me an advice about ADjA > jB > 2C midscreen combo?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

TBH I never use Shippu except from pushining a zoner or someone doing unsafe stuffs pretty far from me. I prefer Yukikaze when I can read my opponent's attacks? Can you give me an advice about ADjA > jB > 2C midscreen combo?

That's the combo everyone has problems with. I see different people give different advice about which input to delay most. I personally have the best success rate if I input the j2A > AD as quickly as possible, then delay my final jB by a lot. Push jA right before your feet touch to the ground.

You can actually do jB > jA > 5C > 2C > etc. most of the time.

[FatalCounter]

You can actually do jB > jA > 5C > 2C > etc. most of the time.

Is this one easier? I think I can be consistent with this one. thanks dude!

[Ctrlaltwtf]

No, it's harder lol. So hard in fact it just blew up the dustloop servers.

The same "5C > 2C instead of just 2C" rule applies to both variations though. jB > jA is more optimal than the other way around, though.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[FatalCounter]

No, it's harder lol.

I am salty now, lol It will take some time to learn that j2A > ADjA > jB etc. I mean I took like 1 month to learn ADjCC correct timing of Tsubaki, I firstly thought it was just impossible to do it.

[BlackYakuzu94]

It's actually not that hard once you get the timing down, I'm still getting used to it myself, but its far easier than a few months back. If you're having trouble, you can probably get away with j.B>j.A instead.

[Wander]

I am salty now, lol It will take some time to learn that j2A > ADjA > jB etc.

Did you also try the j2A > ADjB > jA version, imo thats the easier version. Also, no one ever does the bnb #2 mentioned in the OP [starter] > Renka (1) > Gurren > IAD j.B > j.A, 5C, 2C > sj.B > j.2A, AD j.B > j.2A, j.C

Its not as good as the normal one since gurren may not bait bursts as well as kishuu but this version lets you practice the ADjB > JA part and also the 5C part thats used in the corner carry combos.

[mAc Chaos]

It means don't let Tager backwards roll 720 you in the corner.

Some things can't be helped.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I feel like there's some confusion going on:

Easier and less optimal: jB > j2A > AD > jA > jB > etc. - You've got a large amount of time from jB's hitstun to do the follow-up.

Harder, but optimal: jB > j2A > AD > jB > jA > etc. - You've only got the small amount of time from jA's hitstun.

On both variations, it's possible to do 5C > 2C instead of just 2C. This leads to a better combo.

[dioxideUniversa]

j.B j.A video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IANQvCZjPvo

i do not have a j.A j.B one on hand

what you are trying to accomplish while doing this combo:

- delay the first j.B (perhaps most important) and the followup j.2a (important, but less so.) primarily what this accomplishes is it sets hakumen lower to the ground when you get to the next step. ( http://puu.sh/2A26B notice the different in height relative to the stage (i.e. the background.) left is more ideal timing/spacing (j.B > j.A, 5C) right is more lenient spacing (j.B > j.A > 2C.)

-delay the j.B after the followup airdash. this does two things: it sets you up to where you are falling with more momentum (due to it being later) by the time you get to j.A (compared to if you hit the j.B right away) and it causes your opponent to float lower to the ground. falling faster is important because you land (and thus recover) faster and get to begin your 5C (or 2C) while you have more untechable frames left compared to if you hit the j.B earlier because you would take longer to land after the j.A. take caution that you do not delay this part too much especially if you performed the previous two delays very well, as it is possible for them to land before your j.B gets there if you wait too long. ( http://puu.sh/2A2p6 by now there is a clear difference in spacing.) you can delay the next j.A a little if needed as well, but again it is possible to delay too much and cause it to whiff

-2c or 5c based on how your spacing looked, felt, what have you (you will be come this used to it eventually.) if the 5C connected, you will basically always be able to get the 2c, however if you're not certain you can always kishuu into 2c. ( http://puu.sh/2A2IW unfortunately these attacks use different sprites so it's hard to tell the difference--however the 5c mostly likely would not have worked with the spacing on the 2c screenshot. while they look similar, the difference is 5c is a 14 frame startup attack and 2c is only a 13 frame startup attack, so the spacing for 2c is much easier because the enemy doesn't have an extra frame to float upwards.)

while wordy i hope this is helpful

EDIT: with j.A j.B the only basic difference is that you wait much longer after your airdash to hit j.A. you can fall a little after your first j.2A and input the airdash or just hit the j.A lateish, but the ultimate goal is to keep them floating while you are landing with j.B's obscene untechable frames (24 vs. 18 before proration compared to j.A,) so the same rules apply as the j.B j.A combo: be lower to the ground, get your j.B (instead of j.A since it's j.A > j.B) out later so you land sooner.

while supposedly easier i have always found the timing on it more annoying since i learned with j.B j.A, but whichever you have a higher success rate with is tl;dr the better combo. j.B j.A is optimal in most situations, but in certain situations the j.A j.B can get you more total damage if you're carrying to the corner due to proration differences (iirc spark posted about this at some point? or maybe it had something to do with gurren...)

Edited April 14, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[Mugen Tux]

(Resident newby, still not sure how forum protocol here works, so excuse me if I do something wrong.)

Hey, I've got a random concept combo, but I lack the skills necessary to actually finish it, I was only able to pull off a single part of it.

It's a Mugen combo, so yeah, 8*.

In Corner

6Cfullcharge > Mugen > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > jc. > j.2A > j.2C > 2C > j.2A > (j.2A?) > ad > j.2A > j.C > Tsubaki > repeat from a Kishuu immediately on landing

It's basically an extended bnb combo, but I keep dropping it on the second Kishuu, so could somebody test the damage?

Thanks.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Do you have a visual representation of the combo in a video, Mugen isn't really used, like at all. So providing a reference would help.

[Mugen Tux]

Sorry, no, I don't..

I forgot to mention that its preferable to be as close to the foe as possible, all the way in the corner..

Also, the number of times repeated is as many as is possible to stuff in before finishing with I guess Shippu?

I think the Shippu would probably be after a Renka, but maybe you could shove it in after a Tsubaki.

Again, I can't really test this stuff because of a lack of skill. Sorry 'bout that, and the lack of video..

I feel a little dumb now, forgetting all this stuff.

[dioxideUniversa]

for the sake of education, the main reason you don't do a lot of non-specials in mugen combos is because mugen combos prorate really hard

however, specials (that dont have same move proration) usually have tons of untech and you can combo with them for a very long time. more than likely the kishuu link you are dropping will not work; after a tsubaki i would suggest gurren instead but it will work only once, and that depends if all the normals in the combo even leave enough untech for tsubaki -> landing -> gurren

many of haku's specials have bonus prorate which helps a lot

either way you more than likely would not get maximum damage in the time allotted with mugen because your stars are draining unused while you're just doing a basic bnb with not a lot of specials

also protocol is whatev, there's not a lot of activity in this subforum

[Mugen Tux]

Ahhh, okay, thanks.

Now I can stop beating my head over this combo and actually focus on real combos. :D

[Ctrlaltwtf]

this combo will not work on characters like arakune or makoto without the kishuu between 5c and 2c however (the last j.B whiffs)

I just did it on both of them, are you sure? (I'm continuing this discussion in the combo thread)

Make no mistake, I'm not recommending this for beginner use. This is a significantly harder (yet more/most optimal) version of his BnB.

EDIT: I see what you mean, you're talking about doing it at fullscreen/out of wall range. In that situation you just do 5C > 2C > sj2A > AD > jB > j2A > j5C

Edited June 6, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[dioxideUniversa]

i test most of these combos mid/fullscreen depending on how much corner carry it has. if it carries to corner there's no reason it shouldn't work

also moving this from the Q&A thread

You should also get the 623AA combo down.

speaking of enma, i combosmithed this earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TPr7QhuVNo

it does work on jin and hazama, tho it's a lot more difficult (especially the latter)

hakumen also gave me problems, ironically

Edited June 6, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[mAc Chaos]

Combos with 6C are like "BURST HERE PLEASE." Too bad it's a good combo move.