godofwar7 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Try 5D FC (Backdash to slow walk) 5C from the middle of the screen. it worked pretty consistently for me on yosuke and yu in training mode. and by pretty consistently i mean like 50% of the time.
Elochai Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Wow, I can't get this lol. Thanatos comes out just before they hit the ground from the wallbounce. What I do know though, is that 2AB low profiles bursts.
godofwar7 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 wait lemme make a short video and upload it to youtube.
Elochai Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Alright. I have the sweep beating burst thing, I'll throw it in my video later.
godofwar7 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) 1)How it looks with no burst 2)How it looks by mashing burst 3)Slight delay in use burst. ie not mashing burst. I think it's possible to eliminate getting hit by any burst at all if I can find the perfect walking distance, but otherwise this should be a good alternative way to bait burst without sacrificing the combo Edited January 28, 2013 by godofwar7
Elochai Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Okay, I got it to work. I suppose the trick here is getting Thanatos to be off the screen when you do 5C. I suppose it's a good setup, granted they don't burst when Thanatos goes a-swinging. It'll probably be a tad better than the usual 5B stuff since no one ever throws out 5C lol.
godofwar7 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 They literally have to be mashing burst for the burst to hit, and I don't think good players would do that so... and like i said in the previous post, it may be possible to eliminate the possibility of burst hitting at all, im not exactly a thorough tester lol
godofwar7 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I'm pretty sure you've seen me throw out 5C before and miss horribly, yep that was me trying to bait bursts. I'm pretty sure I tried it on you at TSB, but you never burst lol! Now I find I can actually do it properly, amazing feeling. It's just alternative for when you see that the other guy has a burst and you expect them to use it, a normal burst bait.
Elochai Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Yeah, I dunno why I don't burst. It's a bad habit of mine that often gets me killed, because more often than not, I pick a really bad place to burst, and get baited. I have the same problem in BB, and BB is probably why I'm a conservative burster. I think you'll be fine so long as you make sure Thanatos is off-screen before you throw 5C out. I'll get on rendering my video soon, it's pretty short, but there's some good stuff in it (most of it is impractical, jokes on me).
UmaiCakes Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) P.S. It was fun to play against you at TSB, Umai. Yep, Liz mirrors are always fun. And weird I think its really good that you 2C wakeups to catch roll, I've had so many bad instances where people wakeup roll through 5C and 5B lol Btw people were telling me afterwards "there's always a Liz mirror on that TV", I guess that's interesting Also 5D 5B is actually pretty 'burst safe'...most people do burst as soon as they get close enough to Liz again, and you can jump cancel 5B on reaction to bursts And Liz is really hard to burst after all...though yes if you play her against her alot you can get used to bursting during 5C(2) and being pretty safe. Edited January 29, 2013 by UmaiCakes
TheArm05 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 You can bait bursts real easily while doing the 5D fc 2B combo too. Also for burst baits with 5C you can reaction 2C the first hit of 5C and 2C will own their burst. If you do a 5C in the corner and are guaranteed to kill off the combo you can always just OMC the 5C and hold back while thanatos attacks and then just continue the combo normally if they don't burst. It is a really good OS as Liz has extra meter a lot. Best place to burst in liz combos is during garudyne by far. You have to call the burst out with a OMC pretty hard and if they don't burst you look real dumb.
Elochai Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) I'm kinda happy that there's more active discussion 'round here. Liz forums da bess. Anyway, I never thought about that 5C > OMC to try and bait bursts. That's a really interesting OS. @Umai: The thing I wouldn't like about jump cancelling 5B is that your combo will drop (unless I'm wrong, and there's some way you can continue the combo. Maybe height dependent?). I know that from certain heights, 2AB will make the burst totally whiff on you, as Liz is crouched, and the burst will usually touch the move's hitbox, but not Liz. edit: Since I doubt Bace will post this, I may as well. Possibly the optimal corner combo off of 2C? edit2: So, I was playing a Liz earlier, and he did something pretty interesting. After I blocked 2C, I naturally went to punish Thanatos with a 2A, and I got CH Memento Mori'd. I never thought that was a valid option. Edited January 30, 2013 by Elochai
godofwar7 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Fun isnt the word I would use to describe liz mirrors. 5C and 5B is just terrible as oki moves, I saw them fail me plenty of times that very same day before i fought you, so I just switched to 2C which is kinda decent as oki. yeah my reaction time ain't the best, thus the reason I wanted this 100% burst safe combo with no reaction necessary one of these days I'll get those garu combos down so I can actually do 5D 5B or 2B. I knew you could memento mori after 5C, never thought it could be done after 2C though. Sounds very useful for Thanatos headhunters. Edited January 30, 2013 by godofwar7
Elochai Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I think all of our oki options kinda suck. You can still jump 5D on tech (or delay tech), you can evade 5C on reaction, air dash j.B can be DP'd pretty cleanly, and you can just block 2C, and then hit a button to break Thanatos. Only 2D gives us something solid imo, but we're pretty much guaranteed to lose a persona card for it.
godofwar7 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 2C in corner is kinda decent oki I meant. They can't try to break thanatos or they eat 5B or 5C, and if they block, they at least stay pinned to the corner. not sure if liz recovers fast enough to block wakeup supers though, i doubt it though.
Elochai Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Besides wakeup supers, reactionary supers are something we have to deal with as well. Take Yu vs. Liz for example. While (imo) it's kinda hard to time, Yu can beat 2C and 5D on reaction with cross slash (I think Ziodyne works as well, but I'm not 100%). I'm sure other characters have something like this; I believe I've also been hit by Heavenly Spear as well. You're correct in the fact that 2C is excellent at catching rolls though. If you can condition your opponent to roll on wakeup (maybe by doing something like j.C ender > 5C (2) oki), then 2C will blow them the hell up for monstrous damage in the corner. I think beating what an opponent does with 5B or 5C punish depends on the move, no? I'm not 100% sure, but I think with certain spacing, Mitsuru can 5A (Persona hit) > 5A (Liz hit), and get out of the corner. Other characters have a harder time doing this. The one thing that's really dumb though is that if you position yourself in such a position that the aforementioned situation can't happen, you lose your opportunity to punish. 5B won't catch them. Edit: Just after I typed this, I recalled all those times Blackstar has reactionary Maziodyne'd my 5D on his wakeup. Edited January 30, 2013 by Elochai
Synthesis Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Has anyone come up with this yet? Meterless, standing or crouching, no CH or FC: 5AA 5B D.Garu 2A 5B 2A+B D.Garu 2A 5B 5C 2C etc... It's a good meterless midscreen combo. It uses D.Garu without using meter to launch. >.> I can't believe you can chain D.Garu from 5B.
bace Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 So, I was playing a Liz earlier, and he did something pretty interesting. After I blocked 2C, I naturally went to punish Thanatos with a 2A, and I got CH Memento Mori'd. I never thought that was a valid option. Actually doing stuff like this vs Narukamis that like to just straight Ziodyne between Thanatos stuff is very legit. It will catch 2B if they do that and if they just do Ziodyne you can visually react to it and use the small invul on Ghastly Wail to grab them out of the beam. Has anyone come up with this yet? Meterless, standing or crouching, no CH or FC: 5AA 5B D.Garu 2A 5B 2A+B D.Garu 2A 5B 5C 2C etc... It's a good meterless midscreen combo. It uses D.Garu without using meter to launch. >.> I can't believe you can chain D.Garu from 5B. Yeah I actually made a video of this in December but I usually never post anything lol. On fatal you can do a triple garu loop off of that.
Synthesis Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Actually doing stuff like this vs Narukamis that like to just straight Ziodyne between Thanatos stuff is very legit. It will catch 2B if they do that and if they just do Ziodyne you can visually react to it and use the small invul on Ghastly Wail to grab them out of the beam. Yeah I actually made a video of this in December but I usually never post anything lol. On fatal you can do a triple garu loop off of that. Two garus off a non-counter hit starter from 5A is still ridiculous. 4.4k damage. Works on every that I tested so far. It's strict on Chie, though.
bace Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Oh I wasn't trying to down play the regular ones, we def should learn how to do all of these in general. Chie will always be our bane on garu combos :X
godofwar7 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I'm not really seeing how its done. D.Garu just isn't coming out fast enough for me.
Synthesis Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I'm not really seeing how its done. D.Garu just isn't coming out fast enough for me. Input D.Garu right as 5B reaches its max distance, and tap the D button on the first hit on the return back. should be about 14-16 hits before D.Garu picks them up.
DudeUnderscore Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 does anyone know any good b.bufu resets? i remember this one match i was doing a standard corner combo with a a.bufu -> j.C finisher. However, this time instead of a.bufu -> j.C, i did a.bufu -> a.bufu -> b.bufu and it caught him. also what are good options to do after my opponent blocks a 5C
Elochai Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 After 214CD, you can do 5A > b.bufu. It catches forwards and backwards techs (not sure about upwards). In the corner, you can also do 5C > b.bufu, if the 5C launches them airborne, kinda similar to a 5C > j.D reset.
DudeUnderscore Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 After 214CD, you can do 5A > b.bufu. It catches forwards and backwards techs (not sure about upwards). In the corner, you can also do 5C > b.bufu, if the 5C launches them airborne, kinda similar to a 5C > j.D reset. I know about the 5A -> b.bufu set up. Regarding that, if they tech forwards i notice bufu will whiff so i just super jump and grab them for a free fatal counter grab. I also noticed that people can actually mash out of the b.bufu reset (mitsuru mashing j.A or akihiko mashing j.A punches thanatos arm before the blade reaches em or something)
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