[P4A] Chie Satonaka - Gameplay Discussion

[Kujikawa]

Frame Traps is always a good way of making your opponent think twice about moving his hand off down-back/back.

With these new mechanics it seems like making your opponent block can be a difficult task sometimes.

Barely no one just sits there and tries to block on Netplay, it's all mashy mashy jump jump stuff.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Kujikawa

[-Kid]

Try using Tomoe without having knocked them down. It'll make your opponent think twice about trying to jump out or mash. Be careful though, especially against mitsuru.

5C seems to be good at stuffing people's mashing if spaced correctly.

[Rhiya]

Frame Traps is always a good way of making your opponent think twice about moving his hand off down-back/back.

With these new mechanics it seems like making your opponent block can be a difficult task sometimes.

Barely no one just sits there and tries to block on Netplay, it's all mashy mashy jump jump stuff.

Yeah, but like, the only frametraps I know for Chie are the usual stagger 2A (assuming her 2A is +, does anyone even know that for sure) and whatever>5C, but 5C seems to be negative as fuck even if the CH hitstun is easy to confirm, so I can't use it a lot

[Kujikawa]

Mmmm, it would be great to see a gatling table and some frame data in the near future - That should a lot towards frame trapping. Most JP players love to block so it's hard to find a match that shows you what they do in a situation against one that doesn't.

Btw, anyone whos played a fair bit online, how is that quick-dash-roll-sorta'-thing that I can't remember how it's inputted or named.

Does it spark a lot of trouble in pressure and is it really hard to bait or punish? It seems like jump-ins can be difficult to use as mix-up due to the mechanic (Not sure how much of it is invincible).

[Rhiya]

A+C?

Evasive Action

Press A + C to perform a dodge forward that can avoid attacks and pass through the opponent similar to a forward roll found in the King of Fighters series. This can be used to evade enemy attacks and projectiles, but not throws. Evasive Action also have a bit of recovery at the end that is punishable. Evasive Action can also be used in pressure to create cross-up scenarios by having your persona attack from one side while you move to the other; the opponent must block in relation to the player's position and not the persona's.

1-2F vulnerable

3-24F strike/projectile invincible

33F total duration

...Oh wow, that's fucking good

[Amadeus46Art]

If I get time tonight I'll try to get into training mode to help get a general idea of what's + on block and what isn't. The gatling table shooooooould be in the data thread, but I still have to look over that stuff. I'm gonna be working late tonight though so I'm not sure if I'll have the time to get everything sorted

If you want to try testing frame advantage, go into training mode and record the dummy and just hold back. Then set the dummy to block everything, hit them with whatever, start playback, and walk forwards or back, and see who starts moving first. It's not perfect but until we get a good mook it'll help you give an idea at least.

Also something that's been bugging me that I want to test: seeing if you can kara cancel into Chie's sweep from her 2B. I've been able to kara cancel into her parry, and since her 2B moves her forward it coooooould work maybe? Would help a lot since her sweep lacks range and any little bit is helpful. If someone else wants to test, I'd appreciate it.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Amadeous

[Primiera]

If you guys could name one truly dominant Chie player, who would it be? I've always tried to pick a player and try to emulate their style when beginning a fighting game, and I always try to watch all their matches to see how they handle myriad match-ups and situations.

[Kujikawa]

IMO There is no dominate Chie!

Kirisame has godlike Chie PSR last time I checked, but to be honest it really is difficult to choose the best one.

You generally have Penetration/Theodore/Fio/Tetsu!

Personally I like Theodore best, but everyone has their own taste. Try and pick one you find to have the most interesting playstyle and watch them.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Kujikawa

[Mystic d]

Can anyone get the backdash j.B to work? I've tried using the turnaround method (A+C) but I just can't seem to get the j.B to connect. I can get a j.A to connect. Can anyone help me here?

[-Kid]

I personally like STD's Chie.

[Rhiya]

Can anyone get the backdash j.B to work? I've tried using the turnaround method (A+C) but I just can't seem to get the j.B to connect. I can get a j.A to connect. Can anyone help me here?

Like, j.A+C "forward backwards airdash" falling j.B crossup, what?

If it's that, it's just a matter of making sure you're spaced right.

If it's not that, you're gonna have to be more specific

Edited August 9, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos

[suwave688]

I like Fio's Chie. Guy was a monster with Litchi,so he has that corner pressure going for him. He's just scary when he's in his flow.

[suwave688]

Like, j.A+C "forward backwards airdash" falling j.B crossup, what?

If it's that, it's just a matter of making sure you're spaced right.

If it's not that, you're gonna have to be more specific

This is the biggest point,it's all about spacing. Much harder in this game due to the fast nature,but still very possible. 5D is a good way to lock them down so you could mess around with it a little.

[kirbster]

One trick you can do is to use 2C instead of 5C. The combo is functionally exactly the same, however, adding the input gives you a natural delay and it lets you roll easily into the 236B (which needs to be delayed as well). This improved my success rate a lot, but mileage may vary.

Basically the way I end up doing it is: 5B > 2(pause) > C > (pause) > 36B

Thanks, I'll try this tonight.

I'm also having trouble with the backwards AD j.b oki setup... What's this about j.a+c?

[Rhiya]

J.A+C is air turn; you face the opposite direction in the air and stay that way after pressing j.A+C. As a result, you can do tons of crossups in this game that you couldn't do otherwise.

[Kujikawa]

Hows the Netplay handling you guys?

Is it laggy when playing with people from your own country?

[Rhiya]

It's been pretty solid for me so far, but I've only played 3 connections, so YMMV

[Rhiya]

Also, general trick for practicing oki - set the dummy to block the first hit and nothing after. That way, it'll block on wakeup, but you can still practice the combo before your oki. You just have to jab the dummy, then stagger the next hit (which is your combo starter) so it hits

EDIT: because lol triple posting

One trick you can do is to use 2C instead of 5C. The combo is functionally exactly the same, however, adding the input gives you a natural delay and it lets you roll easily into the 236B (which needs to be delayed as well). This improved my success rate a lot, but mileage may vary.

Basically the way I end up doing it is: 5B > 2(pause) > C > (pause) > 36B

This is actually working really well, and since you suggested using 2C for the added delay, I thought about doing 41236B after that instead of 236B. It's doing wonders; I'm getting the right delay without even trying

Edited August 10, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos

[Mystic d]

Like, j.A+C "forward backwards airdash" falling j.B crossup, what?

If it's that, it's just a matter of making sure you're spaced right.

If it's not that, you're gonna have to be more specific

Yeah that's what I was talking about. Thanks for the quick reply. I'll try it out.

[Celerity]

So right now vs netplay scrubs, there's basically no such thing as oki because they mash recovery at all times. I understand the risks involved and why this is a Bad Idea; most of the time I just kind of continue my pressure, but I guess, being new to this genre I don't really understand the vulnerable frames of the instant recovery. What is the best way for me to blow this up?

[Rhiya]

I don't understand how you're not getting oki if you're ending in knockdown (i.e., 2A+B on the ground and 5A+B against juggled opponents). If they're mashing recovery, you should be getting oki, because TOMOEEEEEEEEEEE (5DD/2DD) forces them to block afterwards or get hit most of the time.

If they're mashing DP, just bait that shit

[Celerity]

I guess the ones who've been annoying me the most have been Yu and Mitsuru, so you're right, I should learn to bait the DP more and stop being so mashy.

[Rhiya]

Lol, I hear you on that shit

I've played one Mitsuru today, and could pretty much run up, block, punish, and win. If there was ever any uncertainty in what should happen, he would DP -- and I would block, and win. It was kinda lol

People just don't understand yet that bad DPs kill you even faster in this game than other games, because you have to pay health to do the damn thing to begin with

[suwave688]

That's a good point. But really,baiting out can shut down their tricks pretty easily. Once you bait one DP,chances are they're too scared to try mashing it out again. We need frame data pretty badly though to get everything in order.

[suwave688]

Btw,anyone else getting blown up by Aigis or is it just me? I couldn't get anything going against her. Any tips on fighting against a good Aigis? I can't imagine baiting bullets for the entire match as a viable strategy,but it's extremely effective at keeping me out.