[P4A] Yosuke Gameplay Discussion

[Guymam]

Thinking about it critically, the two top tiers are probably his worse matchups.

Vs. Aigis you're pretty much at a disadvantage whether your blocking or being hit, and since Yosuke's health isn't very high, and Aigis does great damage, you don't get to fuck up very many defensive situations before you're dead. I imagine 6-4 Aigis.

Vs. Mitsuru she's got pretty much all ranges covered. Makes it hard to get it with her j.a, and her buttons in general just having superior range. Plus, she does great damage too. God help you if you get Fatal Countered with no burst. Probably 6-4 Mitsuru.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

I'd probably play with the default or Green color palette.

Does anyone know what his worse matchups are or have an idea of what his bad matchups are? I need to know what character to bitch about look out for.

I'm going with the yellow one. It matches my current Noel one.

Thinking about it critically, the two top tiers are probably his worse matchups.

Vs. Aigis you're pretty much at a disadvantage whether your blocking or being hit, and since Yosuke's health isn't very high, and Aigis does great damage, you don't get to fuck up very many defensive situations before you're dead. I imagine 6-4 Aigis.

Vs. Mitsuru she's got pretty much all ranges covered. Makes it hard to get it with her j.a, and her buttons in general just having superior range. Plus, she does great damage too. God help you if you get Fatal Countered with no burst. Probably 6-4 Mitsuru.

While we are on the topic of matchups, which ones do you think are Yosuke's best matchups.

[Sharkkato103]

I just got a chance to try my hand at the game yesterday, and I found myself having an easy time against an Aigis player (who had tried it out before at EVO), and having an incredibly hard time with Yukiko. Now keep in mind this was the first time I had played the game, but I started browsing around some videos afterwards and saw that other Youskes were having difficulty getting in against the constant barrage of fan and flame. Did anyone else notice this?

On the subject of better matchups, Liz, Labrys and Naoto were basically free wins all night. Liz's "range" game is mostly horizontal, so I pestered her with kunai until she had to come in on me, and I just reacted for punishes. Labrys' recovery on whiffs is large enough that I could dash from half screen (Full with Sukukaja) and punish anything. Naoto was simple to deal with for the fact that if she set up traps, a D would clear both ground and air traps, and if she tried to use her gun game instead, a j.2D would counterhit and dodge all bullets, getting me in.

My 2 cents, but again, this is just my first take after touching the game for the first time and playing about 15 matches total, so take it all with a grain of salt.

[Rykendawg]

Who would you guys say Yosuke plays similar to (no guilty gear plz)?

[Sharkkato103]

Starting with the BlazBlue comparisons, I would say he feels NOTHING like Hazama. In my opinion, nothing in BB really compares with his feel. Sure he has the two knives akin to Hazama, but the major difference is that Yosuke flows, while Hazama is like a teenager learning to drive stick - start, stop, lurch, etc. No flow at all. If I had to give a major comparison, I'd say he more feels like wolf form Valk from BB. his speed and similar combo structure (get them airborne, moonsault loop/konig wolf loop) reminds me of that. However, at the same time his range and air mobility game feels like what Bang's would be if Bang had infinite nails. Combine all this with Tao's speed and you have something that might come close to approximating what he felt like to play.

If you say which games you have played we could probably give a better comparison. I'd sum up his style with a few key words though: speed, flow, options, and safety.

[Rykendawg]

Starting with the BlazBlue comparisons, I would say he feels NOTHING like Hazama. In my opinion, nothing in BB really compares with his feel. Sure he has the two knives akin to Hazama, but the major difference is that Yosuke flows, while Hazama is like a teenager learning to drive stick - start, stop, lurch, etc. No flow at all. If I had to give a major comparison, I'd say he more feels like wolf form Valk from BB. his speed and similar combo structure (get them airborne, moonsault loop/konig wolf loop) reminds me of that. However, at the same time his range and air mobility game feels like what Bang's would be if Bang had infinite nails. Combine all this with Tao's speed and you have something that might come close to approximating what he felt like to play.

If you say which games you have played we could probably give a better comparison. I'd sum up his style with a few key words though: speed, flow, options, and safety.

Blazblue, UMvC3, Street fighter, Skullgirls, and Sfxt.

[Sharkkato103]

Well, you have my thoughts on the BB comparisons, but as for the others.

Street Fighters: I am of the opinion its near impossible to compare a SF style game to an "anime" fighter. Footsies are completely different due to airdashes and air blocking, combo potential, instant kills, bursts, and so much more just makes them two completely different things. Like, BB and P4U are both cakes, but different flavors. SF is a steak. Ignore the terrible metaphor, but my point is that if you want cake, go for cake, and if you want steak, get a steak. Try and compare the two and you're mostly stuck with the point that "they just taste different."

Never played Skullgirls.

UMvC3 I can do though. The first thing that came to mind was to compare Yosuke's Install to Wolverine's Bezerker Charge in X-factor. I feel that Yosuke is faster, yet more controllable than Wolvie ever was or could be. A full screen teleport dash in .4 seconds (which you can block at any time if they try and punish with a super. People thought it was a command teleport like Dante or Wesker or Dorm. Lol.) and yet I never felt that I didn't know where I would end up. 4 more of his moves become jump cancellable (on hit or block), making for the safest pressure in the world, and some moves gain different properties (his 2C for instance knocks them HELLA far on fatal counter instead of crumpling.) The few combos I started to make work makes me believe that his damage potential in Sukukaja rivals the "top" teir characters. You may have to work a bit harder at that point, but you'll have plenty of chances to get combos going. Additionally, another reason Wolvie is an apt comparison is that the areas Yosuke wants to be on the screen is very similar to where Wolvie wants to be. Full screen waiting to punish something stupid with your speed, at a 60 degree angle above them to hit with divekick (Wolvie) or Kunai, j.C or airdash AC j.B to cross up (options for Yosuke), or right in their face as they are waking up into your mixup. His aerial ranged game doesn't really have a good counterpart in MvC. Closest would be Trish? But even then thats a terrible comparison. I guess in the most vaugest of senses it could be compared to Ibuki from SSFIV, but again, cakes and steak.

I hope this was helpful. I know there are some parts I didn't quite explain too well, but thats because I can't really think of anything that is analogous to the way he operates overall. Props to the makers of the game for taking his design and turning it into something unique. If you have any other specific questions don't hesitate to ask me and I'll do what I can to answer.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Sharkkato103

[Rykendawg]

ok thx.

[KaiserCX]

I have a question, how does Yosuke's mix-up seem? good, average or bad? I generally like playing speedy characters with good mixup. I play Valk in BB and Millia in the regrettably short amount of time I spent with GG.

[Sharkkato103]

Mixup options: Lows: 2a, Sweep, j.C/D. Highs: All-Out, j.A/B, and moonsault. j.C and j.C are NOT overheads. Grab, and 236C/D unblockable. Given all these options, he is a BEAST at mixup. Not only does he have great high-low, but he has amazing left right mixup too. Especially when you throw in the fact that he has a move that hits low that starts in the air, if people aren't constantly paying attention they're pretty much boned. A normal blockstring could look something like this:

Run up, 2A a few times, 5A 5B. Now they're probably crouch blocking at this point since you ran in with a low. 5B gives you plenty of frames to work with, so now you can choose what to do next. You can go right back into 2A mash, (meltyblooooood) hoping they're trying to push buttons, but you can get beat by hop, command dash, etc. You can go into a persona blockstring to hide your next move (my second favorite thing to do) such as 5C 2C 5D, and since 5D has a bit of a start up, as long as their afraid of your pressure, run back in there and use your all-out attack to hit at the same time as Jiraiya. Alternatively, you can keep the blockstring going into either 2B (jump cancellable) or 236A/B, which puts you in the air. at this point you can simply empty jump and go into a low or j.2C/D for another air low option, hoping they've stood up to block you since you're now in the air, or grab. Alternative you can attack from the air, ending pressure with 236C+D, your ex kunai, allowing you to airdash back in while they are still in blockstun. If you really have them scared of you, then just throw out your 236C/D tentarafoo for an unblockable.

This is just the tip of the iceberg if you don't have meter. WITH meter you have amazing rapid options, and can hit confirm/make moves safe by super-cancelling into Sukukaja. I also can't tell you how many games I fraudulently won by doing Garudyne, manuvering myself over them (they can keep blocking the original direction) and then one-more cancelling into a high/low mixup for the winning combo when they were getting ready to punish my super.

I would say he has way better mixup options than Valk ever had, even without a command grab (the unblockable more than makes up for that, plus the fact that it makes them confused, which makes it even easier to land your next combo. Its amazing how trained people are to hold away from you at all times during a blockstring.)

[Dont_Explain]

I just got a chance to try my hand at the game yesterday, and I found myself having an easy time against an Aigis player (who had tried it out before at EVO), and having an incredibly hard time with Yukiko. Now keep in mind this was the first time I had played the game, but I started browsing around some videos afterwards and saw that other Youskes were having difficulty getting in against the constant barrage of fan and flame. Did anyone else notice this?

I just watched the first few videos we had in the video thread and I have to say Aigis does look like a pain. Orgia mode seems to give her strong pressure, good damage, and Athena's attacks become a pain too I think. The bullets can be a nice anti air and deter you from using Jiraiya to get in at the same time. Doesnt seem to be hard to manage Orgia meter either. She has good damage too like Guymam said, so this is definitely no cakewalk of a match.

Against Yukiko, I think if you can Persona Break her it'll be much easier (Iirc, a break doesn't last awfully long, but I think with Yosuke's speed you can get in no problem). I've seen some Yosukes just snipe the persona from the air with Kunai, and of course using your mobility works so if you get a chance hit it yourself. That and just in general practice good movement, but that would be impossible to have on the first day. You don't know how she attacks!

Also I saw you can airdash after EX Flying Kunai, so with some meter you can make it a bit easier to approach maybe? Not sure how much blockstun is on the kunai.

This is from watching videos though, so as you said, take this with a grain of salt.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Dont_Explain

[KaiserCX]

Mixup options: Lows: 2a, Sweep, j.C/D. Highs: All-Out, j.A/B, and moonsault. j.C and j.C are NOT overheads. Grab, and 236C/D unblockable. Given all these options, he is a BEAST at mixup. Not only does he have great high-low, but he has amazing left right mixup too...

Awesome, thanks for the in-depth reply I always have trouble judging certain things purely from videos until I actually get hands-on experience with the game, not to mention I've been trying to avoid watching too many videos because every time I watch some I get hyped and of course I'm unable to play it. Now that it's nearing release I'll start watching more videos to try and learn stuff before it comes out.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

Here's a question, how good do you think Yosuke's oki is?

[Dont_Explain]

I think he only gets oki off Sweep, Garudyne, and I think he has enough frame advantage after Tentarafoo to beat the opponents buttons so it could be like Ragna's 22C.

Garudyne they seem to tech right when you hit the ground. Tentarafoo I'm not sure about, but from what I've seen in the videos they have time to DP. I imagine most people will. The sweep is probably the best you got even though it's about a quick second they're on the ground. I guess if you got em scared you could have a mixup between an overhead, low, Tentarafoo, throw, IAD j.2C, and I think the Moonsault would work too.

That being said, I think you need to have some tricks ready for your opponent both when you get a knockdown and you have them tech in the air.

Tentarafoo them as they land from an air combo, cross under them and then IAD j.2C as they land, throw as they land if they expect a normal attack, use whatever normal is air unblockable as they fall, Sukukaja + what I said before = profit since you'll be that much faster.

Short version of all this: Oki isn't godtier, but you got options. You don't have oki most of the time since you will be knocking them into the air often, so have gimmicks for when they land. you have the speed to chase them so it shouldn't be that bad.

[Sharkkato103]

As far as Oki goes, I'd agree that he is no Chie or Akihiko, but he makes up for that in tricks. I can't tell you how many times after I've finished a normal combo (ending with j.236C kunai) that I've caught people who air teched backwards with a superjump throw, or ran under them to cross them up before they reach the ground if they tech forwards. I'm still working on neutral techers, so thats a work in progress. You also forgot that he has airgrab, which they can't tech until they hit the ground, j2C/D, and moonsault > cresent slash (if you get a random hit with it). As for when I do get oki, his options are actually pretty good. No lockdown with persona like Chie has, but since his D has a delay on it, you can summon it and then run in tandem with it, forcing them to wake up blocking. I've gotten plenty of people with D and then run up and all-out or just grab. As for Tentarafoo, I'm pretty sure I've got the advantage in that situation. Granted at this point I usually run up and just go straight into 2C for massive dmg since people aren't used to the confuse mechanic yet. Once people get better I'll probably delve into better options for that.

As far as Garudyne goes I've been noticing that if you stay level with them for the entire duration of the super, you will either land at the same time, in which case you'll be neutral, or even sometimes be negative so that they can go into their pressure. I'm pretty sure what the Japanese players do is start moving down before the super is fully over at the cost of maybe 2-3 hits in order to get to the ground first, since its based on that, rather than time.

As for the comment about EX Kunai, I would say thats probably my favorite EX skill at the moment. When your blockstring runs its course, or you've tried to cross up with moonsault-cresent slash, or find yourself in any situation where you're at a 60 degree angle above them, EX Kunai gives them enough blockstun to airdash back in and reset the situation. I've shamelessly stolen Nise Pachi's tactic of blockstring > EX Kunai > airdash > grab to start falling, and then AC > B for some sick Carl like approaches.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sharkkato103

[KaiserCX]

5D also appears to be a great tool if timed right to put them back into pressure after air tech as well. What's your opinion on his ground throw? I don't see people throwing often but it does look like you're both at neutral, but with Yosuke's good mixup that definitely doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, especially with the positioning it gives you seem to have a lot of options, at least that's what I'm seeing from videos.

[Sharkkato103]

I really like his throw. I have a feeling that since he has so many options people occasionally forget that he has one, since it may not be his best choice at all times. I have seen some japanese players do any combo into 236A and then instead of j.236C for the air kunai to finish they instead land right back in front of them and throw. The few times I've done this its worked pretty well, except for against people who are R-Action happy. Its a great tool to get out of the corner as well, and it places you out of range of most people, and just barely in the range of your 5C. Also, he can get pretty good damage off of a OMC on his ground throws. (3k without super)

j.D is probably one of Yosuke's best tools. If they're on the ground you use it to make sure they don't jump - then you get a free approach either from the air or the ground. If you just hit them with kunai then yes - sending out a D is a nice way to make sure they don't come down with a falling j.B or something. I've only been able to do this a few times (but I'm sure I'll get better with practice), but if you see them jump into your j.D and they guard it, if you're fast enough and on the ground, running up and 2Bing gives you a free air unblockable since the blockstun on his j.D isn't super long, but just long enough to make sure they stay floating.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sharkkato103
Blockstun not hitstun. Derp.

[SolarMisae]

So after watching a couple of vids after swooning over how adorable I find this boy, I think I might give him a try when the game comes out, though I've never been the type to play speedy characters. Not that I know if he even falls into that category but yeah.

Not asking for game style comparisons (like comparing to BB characters or anything) but if you had to put an archetype on this guy, what would you describe his playstyle as? Does he have multiple archetypes he fits? Like how Rachel can both zone and rushdown.

He's far too adorable for me to ignore him.

[Reioumu]

I hope you guys know how to Kakkuu(滑空)... I haven't seen it posted on this forum, but yeah... You can kara your j.2B into an airthrow(C+D) or turnaround(A+C) and it will use the move's momentum to bring you downwards. So airdash and then kara your j.2B will give you a faster airdash which goes downwards allowing for some nasty mixups. On the way down, use j.A since it hits both sides btw (you are turned around). Or you can land 2A or really do whatever you feel like. Just thought it should be posted cause this is an essential Yosuke tool which needs to be practiced.

j.D is pretty good, just be aware that recklessly putting it out will get your persona hit very easily.

[Iza]

So after watching a couple of vids after swooning over how adorable I find this boy, I think I might give him a try when the game comes out, though I've never been the type to play speedy characters. Not that I know if he even falls into that category but yeah.

Not asking for game style comparisons (like comparing to BB characters or anything) but if you had to put an archetype on this guy, what would you describe his playstyle as? Does he have multiple archetypes he fits? Like how Rachel can both zone and rushdown.

He's far too adorable for me to ignore him.

Everyone will come to love Brosuke on the other note i wish i could breakdown this game and do write up to help but i suck at that

edit: you should all use Nanako as nav to hear EVERYDAY LIFE IS JUNES, JUNES DAISUKI

Edited July 28, 2012 by Iza

[SolarMisae]

I think I'm gonna play him regardless simply because he's so damn adorable. His walk cycle alone is enough to make me wanna play him.

[Iza]

and that smile, still deciding a sub errgh

[SexualRice]

Yosuke seems to be the fastest character in the game, however is he reset oriented as well?

[Sharkkato103]

I think I tried to sum up his playstyle a few posts of mine back in this thread, but I'll give you the highlights of what makes Yosuke awesome.

1) Speed: This motha******* is wolverine on crack, you can easily punish wiffs/full screen dps (for awakening) because his dash and airdash capabilities are just that fast.

2) Combos: Brosuke has some of the classiest combos. Check out the video thread for the most recent combo video for him, his pontential may not rival Aki or Aigis off random hits, but the damage is there when you need it, and you'll look classy doing it.

3) Options: I call this options because its not only resets that hes good at. Safe pressure, gimmicks, the works. The fact that you can either jump cancel or special cancel most of his moves means that he can make nearly everything of his much safer (read: safer, not safe). This does rely on your creativity - say you find yourself at the end of your blockstring after 236A, you can go into moonsaults to try and cross up, you can delay your kunai to try and catch them trying to catch you, you can land and attempt a grab, cancel into j.2C, etc. And if you have 25 meter your blockstring becomes perfectly safe. EX kunai or j.2CD are two completely unpunishable options. The only thing slightly lacking is his Oki since his normal combos don't end up leaving the opponent knocked down, but when he does have Oki, its pretty dang scary.

4) Swagger: Seriously? It's Brosuke. Him and Jiraiya look like they popped right out of a Jet Set Radio game and into this game. Using your Swagger you can frustrate opponents, entertain audiences, and generally feel like a badass at all times.

[Reioumu]

Hayashi is the best Yosuke currently.