[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

[Realone]

In this video when sol and ky fight in the begining of the vid he runs in and do a gunflame frc to a wild throw about three time. So my question is can anyone explain that whole sequence, I think I tried in every possible way to do this move. Please Help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHLiWCrfriE

[Cadenza]

well in the first case he tries to do it, he throws him after the 2K blockstun duration is over and before the GF FRC hits. At least that's what I think. I'm not sure if he was intending to do that or if it was just random shit that worked, but that's my analysis for the first case.

[Brent-quest]

Umm... I assume you mean when he does. 2p 2k GF FRC > Wild Throw? This is actually a pretty old trick that requires some timing. You do 2P, 2K, Gunflame FRC and before the flame puts them in block stun you Wild Throw. He also does it with 2P 2P, but like Cadenza said you just do it in between the block stun of the moves.

[Realone]

greatly appreciated.

[Hideki]

The trick to do that setup is input the Gunflame P with a frc input. It should go like this: 2+P, 236+P (623+PKS). (623+PKS) = frc + wild throw Strict timing, but useful and cool looking.

[Brent-quest]

The trick to do that setup is input the Gunflame P with a frc input.

It should go like this:

2+P, 236+P (623+PKS).

(623+PKS) = frc + wild throw

Strict timing, but useful and cool looking.

How do you make sure the PKS comes out as Wild Throw? Do you hit K first then quick roll to others or something?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

You can press the buttons simultaneuosly and it will register the button with more "priority". Button priority is D,P,K,S,HS, so out of those three, P has the highest priority, then K. I would probably hit KSHS simultaneously to avoid any chance of an accidental Gun Flame.

[HolyOrderChipp]

Er... but you can only have one gunflame out at once.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Whoops, had an XX moment. Sorry.

[HolyOrderChipp]

I know 2S is +3 on block and van therefore be used for frame traps such as 2S, Fafnir. 2P is also +2, and used in frame traps and as a tick throw. My question is: Can 2S be used as an effective tick throw? It usually leaves me too far out for Wild Throw, so do I need a running 2S? I find that when my opponent crouches, my tick throws are worthless as Sol sticks his hand out over the opponent's head like an idiot, and I get killed. So I'm thinking, I need an overhead strike to be the other half of my tick throw game. I'd like to have as many mixup options as I can, and I'm amassing quite a few. Someone ought to prod Spirit Juice into editing his 101 guide to include basic combos and pressure, ideally as a tree with lots of options branching off. Edit: What should I do after a blocked Fafnir? My instinct is to back dash a couple times, but I feel I should be able to pressure afterwards, considering it's +7 on block. I just always seem too far away to do anything.

[grim]

I find fafnir horrible for pressure. I dunno if it's even worth mentioning while we have GF frc. But if you're set on using it for pressure you could be gimicky and try it in the corner. The guard stun might be useful there, and the guy might not expect it - you might not be poked out of it if you use it sparingly. The push-out should make it difficult to continue though, so try an FD brake on your way back in to beat out pokes. Once you're in, 6P delay tricks, tick throw...bait a VV...I dunno pressure to me is just the route to a WT. :\ Outside of combos I find it pretty useless. If you do manage to develop some solid pressure from it, that'd be great. I freaking like that move, but it feels so useless sometimes.

[Orrax]

I need an overhead strike to be the other half of my tick throw game.

j.S. Seriously. Throw it out late, just before you land, then do a quick dash and WT. IMHO, it works fairly well as okizemi, but I find it's considerably less useful against characters with dragon punches. =/

[CrimsonDisaster]

j.S. Seriously. Throw it out late, just before you land, then do a quick dash and WT. IMHO, it works fairly well as okizemi, but I find it's considerably less useful against characters with dragon punches. =/

uhhhhh if you time it right you can't be dragon punched

[Orrax]

uhhhhh if you time it right you can't be dragon punched

Then I guess I'm timing it wrong. =/ Looks like I'll have to work on it some more.

[Hatred Edge]

What should I do after a blocked Fafnir? My instinct is to back dash a couple times, but I feel I should be able to pressure afterwards, considering it's +7 on block. I just always seem too far away to do anything.

+7 for what? Sol can't do crap unless its a CH or clean. So what now? Stop using it. And you will ALWAYS be too far away to do anything. It puts the opponent in long blockstun. That's great seeing as how Sol's mixup is so lacking, on block accomplishes so much<sarcasm>. It could be neutral on block and you'll be in the same situation.

Originally I thought maybe Sol had the speed boost and clean hit added to fafnir to function as some sort of midrange attack but no..fafnir has NO PRIORITY AT ALL. It can only beat/punish moves that have long startups(Potemkin 6HS) or moves that have bad recovery(Johnny's 6HS no mist-cancel on block).

The reason fafnir isn't labelled as "worthless" is because on clean or CH Sol can do big damage. Fantastic for a move that has crap priority.

You want an overhead attack that you can really utilize in your mixup? Not gonna happen. Sol has and always has been limited to LOW and THROW. You can go for 5D..until your opponent realizes they can hit you out of it with any poke with decent speed(I actually have had success landing a few but hell if I'll advise anyone to use it.)

[Nives]

+7 for what? Sol can't do crap unless its a CH or clean. So what now? Stop using it. And you will ALWAYS be too far away to do anything. It puts the opponent in long blockstun. That's great seeing as how Sol's mixup is so lacking, on block accomplishes so much<sarcasm>. It could be neutral on block and you'll be in the same situation.

having advantage even at that distance doesn't mean its useless. u can wait and see what your opponent does first before acting and get a grasp of their mindset. i.e. if u see them jump, u 5K, airthrow, etc. it is a different mixup. fefnir is pretty good for covering the distance people don't expect sol to cover. you can use it to punish predictable jump outs, or even if they do block it, u still have other options.

i can't read japanese, though i remember someone posting and explaining fefnir's throw invulnerability from one point on and how to use it against people on wakeup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYh8z1aPNwM

Originally I thought maybe Sol had the speed boost and clean hit added to fafnir to function as some sort of midrange attack but no..fafnir has NO PRIORITY AT ALL. It can only beat/punish moves that have long startups(Potemkin 6HS) or moves that have bad recovery(Johnny's 6HS no mist-cancel on block).

Fefnir starts up in 11 frames, and is strike invulnerable for the first 7 frames (according to the frame data, but don't see anything about the throw invulnerability), not to mention it is active for 17 frames. For the range, the start up is pretty good, and you usually don't use fefnir to beat out long range moves or what not, its to beat people trying to poke out, or jump out.

The reason fafnir isn't labelled as "worthless" is because on clean or CH Sol can do big damage. Fantastic for a move that has crap priority.

You want an overhead attack that you can really utilize in your mixup? Not gonna happen. Sol has and always has been limited to LOW and THROW. You can go for 5D..until your opponent realizes they can hit you out of it with any poke with decent speed(I actually have had success landing a few but hell if I'll advise anyone to use it.)

Sol still has a really good standing dust, granted you can block it on reaction, but the high level players get hit by it usually because they are conditioned to block low. Sol's mixup game actually isn't that bad, there are other mind games outside of high and low.

The only reason I see for not using fefnir is because you can use your quarter tension for GF -> FRC. If fefnir didn't use up tension, u would probably see people use it a lot more.

[Spirit Juice]

Just to clear things up, Fafnir is NOT strike invincible on frames 1-7; that was a mistake on the translated frame data that never got fixed. :\ It is, however, throw invincible from frames 1-7, as explained in that video by Kusoru. While it's not terribly useful, you can still do some gimmicky stuff and tricks with it. Overall Fafnir isn't a very useful move, but to say it's worthless isn't really accurate.

[Nives]

Just to clear things up, Fafnir is NOT strike invincible on frames 1-7; that was a mistake on the translated frame data that never got fixed. :\ It is, however, throw invincible from frames 1-7, as explained in that video by Kusoru.

ah okay thats good to know. i don't think in the situations u use it (like 5S -> 2S), its that bad on beating out moves, though its on occasion useful.

[Hatred Edge]

having advantage even at that distance doesn't mean its useless. u can wait and see what your opponent does first before acting and get a grasp of their mindset. i.e. if u see them jump, u 5K, airthrow, etc. it is a different mixup. fefnir is pretty good for covering the distance people don't expect sol to cover. you can use it to punish predictable jump outs, or even if they do block it, u still have other options.

HolyOrderChipp wanted to know if he can pressure from that and I told him he can't. What you posted is exactly what a blocked fafnir leads to> waiting to see what your opponent does. As such in HolyOrderChipp's case, he can't continue pressure. Its almost like landing a non CH 5HS max range just with less (offensive/rushdown)options.

active for 17 frames. For the range, the start up is pretty good, and you usually don't use fefnir to beat out long range moves or what not, its to beat people trying to poke out, or jump out.

Active for 17 FRAMES? You sure? 17?! What pokes do you use Fafnir to beat? Most pokes beat Fafnir clean. As for jumping out..from personal experience and watching US/JAP Sol players use fafnir when an opponent jumps..with an 11F startup, won't the entire cast be able to block by the time Fafnir becomes active?

Sol still has a really good standing dust, granted you can block it on reaction, but the high level players get hit by it usually because they are conditioned to block low. Sol's mixup game actually isn't that bad, there are other mind games outside of high and low.

I have landed a few mostly because my opponents expect me to attack low so yeah it works. Still wouldn't advise using it... my opinion really. That's just how I feel about it. Even with success.

[Cadenza]

While we're at it, are there any other errors in Sol's frame data?

[Teyah]

I really doubt that Fafnir is active for 17F, seems like another one of the translator's famous 'typo's. 17F is a very long time.

[Spirit Juice]

I really doubt that Fafnir is active for 17F, seems like another one of the translator's famous 'typo's. 17F is a very long time.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7637/solframesck1.gif

Original frame data says 17.

[Hatred Edge]

I could understand the Tyrant Rave followup but fafnir???

[Champion]

There are a few 'ok' setups to use Fafnir. Like a late blocked GF, f.S,2S(whiff) > Fafnir, 5H or 6H into GF fake > Fafnir, etc Nothing is terribly powerfull, but is good to throw once in a while.

[Teyah]

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7637/solframesck1.gif

Original frame data says 17.

The original frame data is wrong, this error was noted in the errata list in a subsequent issue of Arcadia.

Also, you can pretty obviously tell it's not active for 17F just by looking at the move

3 or 4 frames active time seems about right.