[P4A] Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[Lythium]

Hmm, I can't test it right now, but I was under the impression that you could only do those combos with red axe and fatal?

If that's not the case, then that's pretty cool.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I've actually been working on some chie specific combos which helps make the MU little more fair.

just use the back turned j.214b on chie for the ground bounce since its alot easier.

I'll write some combos later.

I've only tried this yellow axe midscreen combo:

5a<2b<jBB<jump cancel<j.214B ground bounce<2b<j.B<jB<j.c<j.214b for 3k. 33sp gain

on Labrys/Sharbys/Yu/Chie. It should work on everyone buts its very hard to do consistently.

You can also add the j.214a/b ground bounce midscreen in the Fatal CH combos too but I would still stick with the regular Fatal CH combos instead.

I found this combo out too but I dont know if its new or not.

Red Axe Corner: builds 36 meter 3116

5a<5b<236a<66a<5aa<2c<j.bb<j.b<jc.<j.214b dmg 3116

5a<5b<236a<66a<5aa<2c<j.bb<j.b<jc.<j.214b<236236C dmg 4650

5a<5b<236a<66a<5aa<2c<j.bb<j.b<jc.<j.214b<236236D dmg 5850

Edited March 23, 2013 by Tecta1Eastside
Added combo

[Surf]

I see some matchups thread have no info on them. Since EU will be getting the game soon and well... EVO is also soon. Ill try to do some writeups after a bit more research on a couple characters. And also input a couple things in on the other matchups that are already done somewhat

Imo

She has no matchups in here favor. None

And her three worst matchups are Aigis, Chie, and Yu

Edited April 27, 2013 by Surf

[susano]

I see some matchups thread have no info on them. Since EU will be getting the game soon and well... EVO is also soon. Ill try to do some writeups after a bit more research on a couple characters. And also input a couple things in on the other matchups that are already done somewhat

Imo

She has no matchups in here favor. None

And her three worst matchups are Aigis, Chie, and Yu

...None? O.o

[redsilversnake]

...None? O.o

Zero. That's what happens when you're one of the worst characters in the game, if not the worst.

And her three worst matchups are Aigis, Chie, and Yu

No Mitsuru?

[Surf]

Imo shes the worst in the game.

Mitsuru is a bad matchup. But Aigis, Chie, and Yu are on a completely different level

[susano]

Zero. That's what happens when you're one of the worst characters in the game, if not the worst.

No Mitsuru?

Mitsuru is evil, she should have been here. Damn, I just started using Labrys again too.

[toanenadiz]

I find Mitsuru easier to deal with than those 3 though.

[Surf]

A lot of people just dont realize know exactly how bad Labrys is compared to the others. Not even exagerrating either

[susano]

I find Mitsuru easier to deal with than those 3 though.

D: Show me ur ways. I always found Mitsuru to be the spawn of the devil. And I hope that if they make a sequel, they give Labrys some buffs. I've been trying to get back in the game but I haven't been playing so...yea.

Edited April 27, 2013 by susano

[redsilversnake]

Imo shes the worst in the game.

Mitsuru is a bad matchup. But Aigis, Chie, and Yu are on a completely different level

I dunno, I wouldn't say he's any worse than Mitsuru, just bad in a different way. It doesn't seem like he dominates as much at neutral, but compensates for it with his one-button oki BS. I'd agree that Chie is worse, since she both dominates at neutral and has a 5D as good as Narukami's, but he and Mitsuru are equally bad, IMO.

@toan: You're probably just playing a lot of flowcharters, and Mitsuru's way easier to deal with if the player's just flowcharting.

Edited April 27, 2013 by redsilversnake

[Surf]

Like Toan said Mitsuru is easier to deal with than those 3, but shes still an asshole

I would say out of the 3 Yu is the worst one. Its a hard choice saying whose worse between Chie and Aigis

[Daedron]

Am I glad I decided to main Yukiko instead of Labrys. Playing one horrible character in 1 game is enough for me, thank you.

Even though she isn't all that good either.

[Surf]

And I hope that if they make a sequel, they give Labrys some buffs. I've been trying to get back in the game but I haven't been playing so...yea.

From coming back to the game after months of not playing id just like 2 surefire buffs.

Much better gatlings

5D and DD startup to be faster and attack level to be higher

I dunno, I wouldn't say he's any worse than Mitsuru, just bad in a different way. It doesn't seem like he dominates as much at neutral, but compensates for it with his one-button oki BS. I'd agree that Chie is worse, since she both dominates at neutral and has a 5D as good as Narukami's

I fear Yu's neutral ALOT more than i fear Chies. Labrys can at least zone Chie somewhat and keep her away, when shes not in awakening. Yu bodies all of Labs tools in neutral. Nothing on the ground is safe because of his normals and 5C isnt safe because of Zio. and air approaches are out of the window because of his 2B

Edited April 27, 2013 by Surf

[susano]

From coming back to the game after months of not playing id just like 2 surefire buffs.

Much better gatlings or safer normals

5D and DD startup to be faster and attack level to be higher

I fear Yu's neutral ALOT more than i fear Chies. Labrys can at least zone Chie somewhat and keep her away, when shes not in awakening. Yu bodies all of Labs tools in neutral. Nothing on the ground is safe because of his normal and 5C isnt safe because of Zio. and air appraoches are out of the window because of his 2B

Tell me about it. It's like you can't touch him at times.

[redsilversnake]

I fear Yu's neutral ALOT more than i fear Chies. Labrys can at least zone Chie somewhat and keep her away, when shes not in awakening. Yu bodies all of Labs tools in neutral. Nothing on the ground is safe because of his normal and 5C isnt safe because of Zio. and air appraoches are out of the window because of his 2B

...Labrys can zone Chie? wut? Last I checked, Labrys can't zone anyone. I honestly don't see how you could come close to even thinking anything like that.

Anyway, I'd hardly say Narukami bodies Labrys at neutral the way Chie does. In some respects, they're both equally bad for her, but the only thing I can think of that Narukami has better than Chie at neutral is his 2B. Otherwise, Chie's normals are generally better, and she has a somewhat better risk-reward ratio.

[toanenadiz]

@toan: You're probably just playing a lot of flowcharters, and Mitsuru's way easier to deal with if the player's just flowcharting.

I figured it was because I didn't find Mitsuru's mix-up to be as dominating as the other characters. Do good Mitsuru have as good mix-up (particularly after knockdown) as the other 3?

[Surf]

...Labrys can zone Chie? wut? Last I checked, Labrys can't zone anyone. I honestly don't see how you could come close to even thinking anything like that.

Anyway, I'd hardly say Narukami bodies Labrys at neutral the way Chie does. In some respects, they're both equally bad for her, but the only thing I can think of that Narukami has better than Chie at neutral is his 2B. Otherwise, Chie's normals are generally better, and she has a somewhat better risk-reward ratio.

.

Labrys can keep an opponent out with 5C, 5D, j.D and to an extent Sweep and 5B. Granted you have the spacing for her normals down,their damn effective. I honestly dont know how you not seeing how its possible. Its zoning/keep away. Its just not as effective and is matchup dependent. Against Chie and Akihiko, who have short range, i tend to keep them away with the normals i mentioned before. Bur if you try to utilize them without knowing when to use them or their spacing, your getting your ass bodied.

Chies best normal in neutral are 5/2C imo, everything else lacks in range.

Yu has 5B, one of the best normals in the game. 2B, one of the best anti airs in the game.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Yu's Zio lose out to rolls/EX Chain knuckle/5c/2c/j.C.

The EX Zio still loses to rolls and EX Chain Knuckle.

If Yu whiffs 2b then you can j.214A/B for a ground bounce combo

While all of Labrys MUs are either bad or even,

I believe all her MUs are manageable outside of Chie.

Even Chie has to get to you though due to Labrys spacing game plus the Chie Specific combos somewhat makes up for it.

Labrys vs Chie is her worst MU overall though but IB Grab/IB roll helps a little.

[redsilversnake]

I figured it was because I didn't find Mitsuru's mix-up to be as dominating as the other characters. Do good Mitsuru have as good mix-up (particularly after knockdown) as the other 3?

Mix-up is indeed one of Mitsuru's weaker points, but that's pretty much her only real flaw.

.

Labrys can keep an opponent out with 5C, 5D, j.D and to an extent Sweep and 5B. Granted you have the spacing for her normals down,their damn effective. I honestly dont know how you not seeing how its possible. Its zoning/keep away. Its just not as effective and is matchup dependent. Against Chie and Akihiko, who have short range, i tend to keep them away with the normals i mentioned before. Bur if you try to utilize them without knowing when to use them or their spacing, your getting your ass bodied.

Zoning and keepaway aren't the same thing. There is some overlap at times, but they ultimately serve different purposes, and none of those moves can be classified as zoning. Most of them are also ass at neutral; a low j.D does have its uses, but her other Persona normals and 5B tend to be bad ideas, while her sweep is pretty risky outside of blockstrings.

Chies best normal in neutral are 5/2C imo, everything else lacks in range.

5C is good, but not her best. Her lack of range isn't really an issue against Labrys, since she can close distances well enough and her moves come out faster.

Yu has 5B, one of the best normals in the game. 2B, one of the best anti airs in the game.

Those are indeed good normals, but those alone don't make him better at neutral than Mitsuru or Chie. Mitsuru's is simply the best in the game, while Chie's is either on par with his or somewhat better.

[Surf]

I mentioned Yu's Zio against 5C because if your not properly spacing it, Zio can CH your recovery. Zio is mainly only a problem when your not using 5C correctly.

While all of Labrys MUs are either bad or even

Yes the best she gets is even. Everything else is bad.

I dunno, Chie is horrible but I still view Yu as harder to deal with.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Surf

[toanenadiz]

Mix-up is indeed one of Mitsuru's weaker points, but that's pretty much her only real flaw.

That is why I would have an easier time against her than the others. I have more chances at fighting in neutral against her (even though she is amazing at it). I have much more faith in my neutral than my defensive skills.

[redsilversnake]

I mentioned Yu's Zio against 5C because if your not properly spacing it, Zio can CH your recovery. Zio is mainly only a problem when your not using 5C correctly.

You don't even really need to do that, though. Zio is really easy to jump over, and the recovery leaves Narukami quite open.

That is why I would have an easier time against her than the others. I have more chances at fighting in neutral against her (even though she is amazing at it). I have much more faith in my neutral than my defensive skills.

I feel ya, man.

/freetooverheadsandthrows

[Surf]

I suppose so.

In any case Ill be doing the write ups throughtout next week I guess. Wont be doing Kanji or Mitsuru since did a write up for them already and gave it to Setsuna. Im also lacking in some matchups. Like Teddie, Naoto, Liz, and Shadow Labrys.

[Setsuna]

The thing about the Chie MU from my experience against ZomB and Ivysaur at FR16 (and some Chie play online) is that while Labrys can zone people out if Labrys were to whiff almost anything trying to zone Chie can rush in punish you. Theres always the possibility of it just being improper spacing on my part but the fact remains that Chie can get in despite Labrys ranged normals and once shes in the only solution to my knowledge is to IB grab/roll as Tectal mentioned but even then those can be read and punished as well.

I suppose so.

In any case Ill be doing the write ups throughtout next week I guess. Wont be doing Kanji or Mitsuru since did a write up for them already and gave it to Setsuna. Im also lacking in some matchups. Like Teddie, Naoto, Liz, and Shadow Labrys.

Those probably need to be updated regardless alot of the information in there is from way earlier when the game was released. I myself am lacking in MU experience against those characters, I can give input on what to look out for and theories to deal with it but nothing from personal experience. After losing to Liz horribly during the early months I can probably go indepth about her.

You have me on Skype so just update me there when you post your information so i can update it to the main post, I've been juggling alot of things lately and been neglecting the subforum