[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Combo Thread "My skills have been honed!" (Updated 1/20/2013)

[Manukiru]

Hey thanks, that is a lot easier, and for only 110 dmg lost, the practicality really helps. (i just figured out the general combo route like... an hour before posting, so i guess its not really that refined)

[Random Naoto]

Some more burst safe setups for 75 or 50 meter. A huge thanks to zeromus and diarmuid for the work they've done thus far. Some of these are dependant on trap oki, but you should be playing that anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVGjcmzVlEU

[Zeromus_X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAYHF-QC44A#t=17m48s

236A (2nd hit) overhead into D trap SMP loop:

(214D set) 236A (2nd hit)~D > dash 2[C] > 5C > IAD jB > jC > land Mudoon > (dash) 214C > 5AA > 236B~D xN (8k with 236A~D oki, 8.5k with C shots ender)

[Doonpa]

Ok, so I found something kinda interesting. So apparently, if you do 236B FC, and slightly delay a super canceled 236236A off the first hit, you get to combo off the silence shots without any resources after the initial super for a full unburstable fatal combo. So something like 236B FC(1) slight slight delayed 236236A, dash 5B 5C land 5C 2[C] 2B 5C j.C j.D 236A works for example. If you want to get the proper height guarenteed without worry about the opponent bursting the fatal immediately, you can do 236B FC, wait, 2A 236236A at the lowest possible height to achieve the same effect.

Its also totally possible to SMP off this too, i'll leave it up to whoever in here is even interested in this character to explore this combo path and see what they can come up with. I think that this might lead to a way to get a Mudoon+Silence SMP without having to OMB out of the Silence super.

[Ichipoo]

So after watching Kosaka Mei's Naoto against Sazanami's SLab, I've been meaning to delve deeper into SMP Silence combos, while resource heavy, they're obviously worth knowing, especially if your opponent has saved a Burst specifically for an SMP loop when used against him/her. Here's a few I've found so far.

75 SP + Burst

5AA > 5B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A+B > 236236A > OMB > 214D (trap set) > 236A~D > 214D (trap detonate) > [236B~D]xN

100 SP + Burst

5B > 5C > 2C > 236236D > 214D (trap set) > 236236A > OMB > 236A~Bx1~D > 214D (trap detonate) > 2B > [236B~D]xN

Now obviously there's more of them and while I'd post more, I have to go somewhere at the moment right now.

[Zeromus_X]

Ok, so I found something kinda interesting. So apparently, if you do 236B FC, and slightly delay a super canceled 236236A off the first hit, you get to combo off the silence shots without any resources after the initial super for a full unburstable fatal combo. So something like 236B FC(1) slight slight delayed 236236A, dash 5B 5C land 5C 2[C] 2B 5C j.C j.D 236A works for example. If you want to get the proper height guarenteed without worry about the opponent bursting the fatal immediately, you can do 236B FC, wait, 2A 236236A at the lowest possible height to achieve the same effect.

Its also totally possible to SMP off this too, i'll leave it up to whoever in here is even interested in this character to explore this combo path and see what they can come up with. I think that this might lead to a way to get a Mudoon+Silence SMP without having to OMB out of the Silence super.

Great find! I'm no combo smith, but here are a few I drafted out just now. It turns out that these combos also work after 236B(1)FC > immediate Silence Shot, making it harder to burst:

With 50 meter/"meterless"

236B(1) FC > Silence Shot > dash 2B > 5B > 5C > 2[C] > 5C > IAD > jB > jC > 5C > IAD > jC > jD > land 236A~Bx5 (4.5k burst-safe)

Seems like Silence super kind of kills proration enough so that the 2[C] loop isn't possible. Still, 4.5k burst-safe off a punish for 50 meter is pretty strong.

With 75 meter (Silence shot + EX trap):

236B(1) FC > Silence Shot > dash 2B > 5B > 5C > IAD > jC > jD > EX Trap > jB > land (j214C hits) > [236A ~D (D trap hits) > set D trap]x6 (Burst safe 6k for 75 meter)

With 100 meter (Silence shot + Mudoon):

236B(1) FC > Silence Shot > dash 5B > Mudoon > dash 214C > 214D > 2B > 5C > IAD > jC > jD > land [236A~D > D trap hits > set D trap]x9 (9k total, 6k burst-safe)

These all work with 236B FC~D > lowest 2A > Silence Shot at the beginning instead, and do about 1k more damage in that case, if you think the opponent won't burst immediately after the FC. With 236B FC ~D > 2A > Silence > 2B > 5B > 5C > 2[C] etc, you get about 5.5k for 50 meter, which is probably the best deal.

[Doonpa]

Nice job Zeromus, those look really good. Stuff like that can really save your butt if the situation comes up.

Another little post i'd like to make is that I think i found the optimal punish for anything obviously punishable for simply 25% meter and being a little more than 3/4s screen, this also works anywhere closer to the corner than that of course. Simply put, learn this learn this learn this learn this learn this plox.

EX Fangs FC, dash 2A 2B 5C 2[C] delay 5B 5C IAD j.C delay j.D land 5AA 236BxN, 8k. I'm not going to lie, this combo is dumb. So dumb. It's not hard to do once you understand the slight delays to this combo so everything connects smoothly but once you do, you can inflict massive amounts of pain. If the opponent does not realize what they were hit by, odds are they will die from this. So if you are in proximity and they decided to do something unsafe like DP, punish with this. The other great thing is that compared to B Fangs, EX Fangs is faster therefore more reliable to punish DPs before they recover so enjoy. If someone found this before me, major kudos to you but I think this needs to get some more light on it because its soooooooooo good.

[Zeromus_X]

Wow that is almost too good. The dash 2A will connect if you dash step a little bit past the player starting position lol. Also if you punish a DP with it and you're too far from the corner, you can OMB and do 2A 2B 5C 2[C] 5C IAD JB JC 5C IAD JC JD 5AA 236B~DxN to corner carry and get the 8k. I definitely need to start abare EX twin fangs out of nowhere incorporating this into my game.

[AyyKayAyy]

I started to play P4A again and I know all/most of the basics. can someone feed me to any new Naoto tech/staple combos that has been found. the last time I played P4A was back in December of last year.

[Doonpa]

Ok now this is really stupid and I'm sorry for posting these.

5B 2B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.C land 5C 236BxN ~8.1K, 8.3k if you end it with A Fangs

5B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs ~8.9K, can get this up to like 9.3k if you add C shots to the last rep of 236B to kill Aigis and Teddie, otherwise 8.8k if ended with 236A.

D-Trap or C-Trap CH, dash 2A 5B slight delay 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 236BxN ~9.1k, adding shots gives you 9.4k if you use j.A, otherwise 9.5k is the magic number with j.B to kill the characters that matter like Mitsuru, Chie, and Narukami.

C CH/D trap, dash 5B/2B 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs 236BxN ~10.2k, shoot them at the end and no one survives. Any combo where 5C is listed as (5C) means its totally optional and I highly recommend omitting it because j.C into land EX Fangs is so free its not worth keeping in there.

What this means is that from the start of the round you can end the round. These all have retarded amounts of corner carrier. Even if you don't fully carry them to the corner off the first 236B, you can dash 5C and STILL get 236B to get connect afterwards although the damage won't be as high. I don't think there is anything else I can do for this character at this point and I hope you guys enjoy these because i've already hit people with this stuff and it feels so good. EVERY NAOTO SHOULD LEARN THESE

And @AyyKayAyy, the first post has exactly what you need in this thread. It even lists the key SMPs you should learn to start off.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Diarmuid
Forgot to add OMB lol Thanks Ichipoo

[Zeromus_X]

Diarmuid why you so gdlk? Thanks for all of your tech so far, I can't wait to hit people with these. Can we get above B tier now?

[Random Naoto]

AoA in the corner for 25 meter, you need 3 meter to start:

AoA, D fatal, 5b, 5c, j.d, 214CD, j.b, 236a, d trap hits, 236b x 5 (4300)

And two combos lifted from Japanese play. The only caveat to these is that the opponent has to be almost completely in the corner.

meterless Narukami/Aigis corner DP punish:

214c counter hit, 66 , 214D, 5aa, 236a, bx1, 2b, 5c, IAD j. b or a, j. c, 5c, 236b x n, does 6.8k

Also builds 50 meter. If you do it until the last hit (30) and cancel the last double fang into mudoon, you can just keep doing B double fangs for 7 more reps for 9k total.

100 meter no burst TOD burst safe combo:

D trap hits, 5c, IAD j.a, j.c, 5c, 214a, cx5, mudoon, 5d, 2a or sweep, 236a one hit, 236236a, slight delay, 5d, depending on the character you might need a dash here, 236b x n

[Ichipoo]

Ok now this is really stupid and I'm sorry for posting these.

5B 2B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.C land 5C 236BxN ~8.1K, 8.3k if you end it with A Fangs

5B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs ~8.9K, can get this up to like 9.3k if you add C shots to the last rep of 236B to kill Aigis and Teddie, otherwise 8.8k if ended with 236A.

D-Trap or C-Trap CH, dash 2A 5B slight delay 236A~B(1) 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 236BxN ~9.1k, adding shots gives you 9.4k if you use j.A, otherwise 9.5k is the magic number with j.B to kill the characters that matter like Mitsuru, Chie, and Narukami.

C CH/D trap, dash 5B/2B 236A~B(1) 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs 236BxN ~10.2k, shoot them at the end and no one survives. Any combo where 5C is listed as (5C) means its totally optional and I highly recommend omitting it because j.C into land EX Fangs is so free its not worth keeping in there.

What this means is that from the start of the round you can end the round. These all have retarded amounts of corner carrier. Even if you don't fully carry them to the corner off the first 236B, you can dash 5C and STILL get 236B to get connect afterwards although the damage won't be as high. I don't think there is anything else I can do for this character at this point and I hope you guys enjoy these because i've already hit people with this stuff and it feels so good. EVERY NAOTO SHOULD LEARN THESE

And @AyyKayAyy, the first post has exactly what you need in this thread. It even lists the key SMPs you should learn to start off.

Jesus Christ, too good.

[LegendaryRath]

You guys here are the main reason Naoto continues to get better. She's a force to be reckoned with these days.

[ludwig van]

A couple of nights ago, I went into the lab w/ the goal of a OMB SMP off of a sweep since it's one of Naoto's strongest moves. My results were:

2AB > 236A~Bx1 > OMB > dash 2[C] > slight delay 5AA > slight delay 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 5C > 236BxN for 6942 damage w/ 236A ender

and 2AB > 236A~Bx1 > OMB > dash 2[C] > 5B > 5C > IAD j.A > j.C > land 236AB > 236BxN for 8505 damage w/ 236A ender for 25 meter.

Tbqh, w/ this 2nd one and some Diarmuid's combos, I think using 236AB into 236BxN instead of a 2nd 5C should be something we should all explore more.

All in all, good stuff everyone. Even though we play arguably the least used character in the game, the fact that there's fairly consistent discussion for her going on makes me happy. :3

[Doonpa]

@Rath, thanks for noticing the work active Naoto players put in on this forum. Theres not many of us still around but the ones who are always post good stuff.

So about the D-Trap 2A 5B SMPs, there some character specific garbage I should clear up. Those who have practiced this combo may have noticed that 2A 5B is really inconsistent vs Chie and Mitsuru. You basically have 3 alternatives to dealing with them which are:

1. Do 5AA instead of 2A 5B after the trap. The combo's damage becomes ~8.3k on the last 236B, and of course a little higher with C-shots. Ending it with 236A knockdown requires you to omit the last 236B because proration is really high at that point so you'll have to end it one rep short.

2. Raw 5B. Make sure you do this at the lowest high possible otherwise you still risk dropping this. Doing 5B raw requires you to use EX Fangs to get the 10 hits for SMP, so keep that in mind.

3. Learn the silly timing. Technically, if you hit the opponent at the lowest possible height with 2A, delay a little, do 5B, delay a slight bit more, 236A will connect. It's extremely retarded and hard to do consistently vs Chie and Mitsuru but if you want the damage without spending an extra 25% you'll have to go for it.

Another thing to note is that against everyone except Kanji and of course Mitsuru+Chie, 2A 2B also works. So you can do that if you feel more comfortable doing the follow up to dash 2A crouching.

@Random Naoto, those combos are cool. I tried tweaking them a little to suit my execution better, so they go something like this:

AOA-D, 5B 2B 5C IAD j.C EX Trap 236A 236Bx4-5? 236A~D, 4.3k.

D Trap, 5C IAD j.A/B j.C land 5C 214A~Cx5 Mudoon C trap 5D wait, 236A(1) 236236A, wait, 5D hits towards the end of the super, EX Fangs, 236BxN. <-- 125% meter unfortunately, so not as good as the combo you posted. Its also still tricky to get the timing of 5D to hit exactly when the super ends and then getting the EX Fangs to hit so that they don't go flying the other way is annoying as hell. It might be possible to get 236B over 236AB after the 5D but I can't do it. Only thing this combo has over yours is that the height needed to get the rest of the combo after Mudoon is more lenient but less efficient in the end.

[ludwig van]

Also if you punish a DP with it and you're too far from the corner, you can OMB and do 2A 2B 5C 2[C] 5C IAD JB JC 5C IAD JC JD 5AA 236B~DxN to corner carry and get the 8k.

Followup to this: skip the 2A and you can get 9922 damage, or 9977 w/ C shots ender, though atm I'm too tired to connect 236A as an ender.

[Zeromus_X]

Btw, I think I mentioned this last time the EX Fangs/OMB combos made a splash, but you can do still do 236A~B(2) or (3) > OMB with negligible effect on proration if the timing is hard to get down. However, if you really want to get just the 1 bullet into OMB, double tap B after inputting 236A to take advantage of advanced input, then immediately input the burst to get it to connect every time.

Also I am so happy that EX Fangs actually CHs Yukiko's DP.

[Ichipoo]

5B 2B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.C land 5C 236BxN ~8.1K, 8.3k if you end it with A Fangs

5B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C IAD j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs ~8.9K, can get this up to like 9.3k if you add C shots to the last rep of 236B to kill Aigis and Teddie, otherwise 8.8k if ended with 236A.

D-Trap or C-Trap CH, dash 2A 5B slight delay 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land 5C 236BxN ~9.1k, adding shots gives you 9.4k if you use j.A, otherwise 9.5k is the magic number with j.B to kill the characters that matter like Mitsuru, Chie, and Narukami.

C CH/D trap, dash 5B/2B 236A~B(1) OMB 2[C] 5C j.A/j.B j.C land (5C) EX Fangs 236BxN ~10.2k, shoot them at the end and no one survives. Any combo where 5C is listed as (5C) means its totally optional and I highly recommend omitting it because j.C into land EX Fangs is so free its not worth keeping in there.

Just practiced these combos this morning and it's so good. The only thing you need to get used to is doing the 236A~B(1) > OMB part pretty quickly (it's pretty much a matter of pressing B > ACD in one really quick motion). However, the thing I need to work on more is having the 2A > 5B > delay > 236A land more consistently.

I hope I can pull at least one of these combos off at Rebel Up this Saturday.

[ludwig van]

^If you're having trouble with B shot > omb, I'd recommend binding burst to a button. Makes it a lot easier.

[Doonpa]

However, the thing I need to work on more is having the 2A > 5B > delay > 236A land more consistently.

Delaying 2A 5B 236A is only necessary for Chie and Mitsuru. For them, you should do 5AA 236A if you are ok with settling with 8.3k off trap without spending any meter. Otherwise, spending the 25% and just doing 5B/Sweep 236A and then tacking on the 236AB later is infinitely more rewarding because it guarantees the kill at full health if you need it.

IMPORTANT EDIT:

Side switch versions of the combos I posted earlier:

5B 2B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB dash under 2A 5C j.A/B j.C land 5C 236BxN ~7.9k

5B Sweep 236A~B(1) OMB dash under 2A 5C j.A/B j.C land (5C) 236AB, 236BxN 8.4k You can use 2B instead of 2A here if you'd like but its hard.

C CH/D Trap, 5AA 236A~B(1) OMB dash under 2A 5C j.A/B j.C land 5C 236BxN 8.1k, 8.2k if you use 5B instead of 2A.

C CH/D Trap, 5B 236A~B(1) OMB dash under 2A 5C j.A/B j.C land (5C) 236AB, 236BxN Same damage as before.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Diarmuid
Adding side switch combos

[Zeromus_X]

Non-CH C trap variation of OMB/EX Fangs route:

C trap > 5C > 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > 5B > 5C > IAD > jA/B > jC > land EX Fangs > (5C) 236B~DxN (9k, 9.5 w/C-shots)

EDIT: wow forgot to type 2[c]

Edited May 15, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Doonpa]

Anti-Agneyastra combo:

5AA 5C DP. Da bess. Does anyone have anything better. And of course, you need to be like point blank next to Chie to hit this so this what you do if they do it on wake up or something. Sucks but oh well. Takes 3 off the fate counter so hooray for that.

[Zeromus_X]

Was messing around some more with the new combo route in training mode. Trying to see if it works off other practical starters:

jC (CH), land, 5AA, 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > 5B > 5C > IAD (delay) jB > jC > land EX Fangs > 236B~DxN (6.5k, 7k w/C-shots)

5D (CH only) > dash up 2A > 2B > (may need a delay on some chars) 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > 5C > IAD (delay) jB > jC > land EX Fangs > 236B~DxN (9k, 9.5k w/C-shots)

-This combo only works with 5D CH due to the very lenient untechable time. I really want this to work off non-CH 5D hit:

5D (non-CH) > dash 5C (after spin) > 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > 5B > 5C > IAD > (delay) jB > jC > land EX Fangs >236B...

...but I can't find a way to fit enough SMP moves into the combo. Anyone have any ideas?

It seems like for now, it's better to do meterless 5D combos and or with 50 meter go for the kill.

I was also messing around with 5AAA autocombo > OMB stuff, since it looks hilarious and can build the meter for an EX Fangs, but proration is too tight for the B Fangs to connect afterward.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Zeromus_X

[Zeromus_X]

Combo used by Denpa in Arc Revo, I changed it a bit to work on Teddie, kills everyone:

Air-to-air jB, jC > OMB > Mudoon > daaash > 214D > 5AA > 236A~B(1)~D > 2A > 2B > 5C > 236B~D xN (Death)

AoA w/OMB and 25 meter:

AoA~D > 5B > 5C > 236A~B(1) > OMB > 2[C] > EX Fangs > 236B~DxN (5.7k, 6.2k w/C-shots)