[CP] Arakune Technical and Gameplay Discussion Thread

[antonymichiru]

Avoid snakes. Don't do obvious jump ins, Hazama has great AAs that can't be punished on block.

Hazama is hard.

Thank you mate.. Anyway arakune is so funny to play great character

[Skye]

Men, it's been a fine time leading these forums, but CP2 Arakune is not the Arakune I feel in love with, so it is with great sorrow to announce that I will be retiring my Arakune indefinitely (maybe until they make him fun again), as such I already put in my resignation of Arakune moderator in the staff forums, so look forward to a new mod in the coming days/weeks. If you think you can do the job, pm shtkn, let him know.  I'll still be around to answer questions until my knowledge becomes outdated, but that'll be it, I'm not invested in him anymore and you guys deserve better.

[Argent Zero]

Is there anyone in the states that actually plays Arakune anymore and uses DL often enough to be a Mod?

[Skye]

Idk.

[GoBL1N]

Men, it's been a fine time leading these forums, but CP2 Arakune is not the Arakune I feel in love with, so it is with great sorrow to announce that I will be retiring my Arakune indefinitely (maybe until they make him fun again), as such I already put in my resignation of Arakune moderator in the staff forums, so look forward to a new mod in the coming days/weeks. If you think you can do the job, pm shtkn, let him know.  I'll still be around to answer questions until my knowledge becomes outdated, but that'll be it, I'm not invested in him anymore and you guys deserve better.

 

Aw man thats sad news indeed. I appreciate all the help you've provided. Thank you.

If I may ask, what changes didn't you like? It seems like hes only been buffed since 1.1, he had very little representation and now I see arakune players standing their ground.

Are you changing characters or are you done entirely? Just curious.

[Elemenope]

I don't think anybody would say the curse changes are a buff in CPE =/ but that's just my perspective.

[Skye]

I'm changing characters. Kagura and Bang look super fun in this version and if all else fails I've been subbing Jin since CT, might bump him to main status.

The curse changes killed it for me. Loss of rising j.c, c and d bugs costing more curse meter, Arakune is now working to hard to get the kind of damage other characters get much easier.

This version already started off on the wrong foot for Arakune with 3 God damn murakumos.

I really don't think Arakune got buffed from 1.1.

Precurse is debatable, but I would call it a lateral movement (not better or worse, just different), but curse is a definite nerf.

Bear in mind that I think CSE had the best precurse. 6a into 100% curse anywhere, rising j.b, midscreen 6d. I remember I was very optimistic and CP 1.0 Arakune's precurse with the new tools, but looking back, CSE was way better and probably my favorite version of Arakune, probably even over CT, not sure.

[Jdietz43]

Thanks for the work in the past Skye.

I don't think anyone would hold it against anyone else for dropping Arakune this time around. I know sadly I will be.

He'll always be the funnest character to me, but in this version he just isn't competitive at all.


For what it's worth for anyone here (or passing by and wondering how Arakune changed), here's the changes I could confirm from my hands on time in the final console release so far:
 

Pros:

More "regular" conversion routes off curse hits overall due to bug timing changes

4B > 6A is a combo route now (makes 4B useful pre-curse as a standing low)

C Bug has Gaurd Crush property

Overdrive with curse meter is "anytime curse" starting with whatever meter you have

F of G activates on whiff, bees are curse building hitboxes similar to rain of nails.
6D Special/Jump cancellable, bell bug does not appear if you cancel into something before it would normally appear

Neutral:
Air teleports have changed slightly

Bug timings for in curse combos have tightened

6B no longer Fatal (never gave any actual combo benefits)
6D now Fatal (no real benefits I could see other than choosing to go into j.D instead of letting the bug hit; F of G not a combo)

 

Cons:

Curse overall is harder to achieve, D moves only do 1/4th curse meter build, Cloud 35% and Spiders 40%

F of G no longer 100% curse (except in certain cases on aerial opponents where you hit them midway through, or after j.C)

F of G has massive postflash startup (~25f. Enough time for Jin to complete a 5C or backdash entirely from the hitbox area)

More curse meter used for C and D bug, max 3 reps possible (realistically only if one C bug is omitted to begin combo)

Curse combo ends at 5k in optimal scenarios and doesn't leave room for oki anymore

Overdrive at no curse is "double" regular curse instead of instant curse on curse building hit (still okay for recurse at end of curse combos if done properly, but overall a nerf there)

6B untech time has been reduced. Double j.D combo is no longer possible, and in some cases normal combos are no longer possible.

2D no longer hits while traveling to the ground

2C no longer wallsplats

(100% curse in corner is still possible off certain hits due to 2D now being able to hit beyond corner, but it is less simple with that change)
2A > 2C no longer combos on non CH
Rising j.C actively pushes Arakune to the top of his jump height, instant overhead no longer possible

Spiders now telegraph before descending

Overall a nerf of considerable size.
 

[antonymichiru]

Any 100% curse combo please?

[Skye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CU37bkeML4

 

6a > 5d > iad j.a > j.4b > 6b > j.6d > j.6b > dj.aa > j.b(3) > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > tk j.22b

 

b+c > 22a > 5a > 5b > j.a > j.6a > dj.a > j.c > j.2a > 6d > tk j.22b

 

5c > j.a > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > delay j.3d > 6a > 5d > j.236d

 

The 2c combos I really don't think are practical, but I'll note them anyway.

 

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > 236b > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d

 

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > CT > 5c > 6c > 5c > 5a > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d (4k precurse :o)

 

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > j.d > 6d > j.6a > dj.c > j.2a > DC walk forward > 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

 

(corner) 6a > 2b > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > 236b > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d 

 

(corner) 6a > 2b > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > j.d > 6d > delay jump > j.6a > dj.c > j.2a > DC walk forward > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

 

(corner) 5a > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d > 2d

 

(corner) b+c > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d

 

(corner) b+c > 22c > 5a > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d [CURSE ACTIVATED] 6[d] > j.236[c] > 6]cd[ > 6]b[ > rising j.b

 

(in corner) 5c > j.a > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > delay j.d > 6a > 2c > delay 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

 

 

The setplay;

buffer c during the dash, release during the 5aa, jump and j.664c, cross up guard crush.

6c > 5dc > 2c > d bug > j236cd > c bug > d bug 1 > 22b > d bug 2 > 6a > 5c > 236236c

 

Disclosure: These were notated directly from the video, I did not practice them.

[GoBL1N]

Ok so maybe I came to the wrong conclusions after watching some videos of 2.0 arakune, I guess I was noticing the players hitting with more curse building things like midscreen combos leading to j6d/6d > spider or something I felt like he was cursing more. Full curse meter in the corner also looked like an easier combo to do/execute from what I saw (no longer requiring 214b, which was weird anyways) and I thought the 5d jump cancel was really nice and the c bug breaking guards looked scary. I also noticed alot of shenanigans where one could use j412412d to re-curse players so he looked stronger to me but from what you guys are saying he's actually weaker now.

 

Either way I understand your reasons Skye thanks for all your help, your video on pre-curse really helped me get my arakune on my feet.

[antonymichiru]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CU37bkeML4

6a > 5d > iad j.a > j.4b > 6b > j.6d > j.6b > dj.aa > j.b(3) > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > tk j.22b

b+c > 22a > 5a > 5b > j.a > j.6a > dj.a > j.c > j.2a > 6d > tk j.22b

5c > j.a > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > delay j.3d > 6a > 5d > j.236d

The 2c combos I really don't think are practical, but I'll note them anyway.

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > 236b > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > CT > 5c > 6c > 5c > 5a > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d (4k precurse :o)

(corner) 2c > delay 6d > j.d > 6d > j.6a > dj.c > j.2a > DC walk forward > 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

(corner) 6a > 2b > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > 236b > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d

(corner) 6a > 2b > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > j.d > 6d > delay jump > j.6a > dj.c > j.2a > DC walk forward > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

(corner) 5a > 5b > 2c > delay 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d > 2d

(corner) b+c > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d > 6d

(corner) b+c > 22c > 5a > 6b > 2d > 5d > j.6d [CURSE ACTIVATED] 6[d] > j.236[c] > 6]cd[ > 6]b[ > rising j.b

(in corner) 5c > j.a > j.c > j.2a > DC 6d > delay j.d > 6a > 2c > delay 6d > 6b > 2d > 5d [CURSE ACTIVATED] > 6[d]~bc > delay 2c~6]d[

The setplay;

buffer c during the dash, release during the 5aa, jump and j.664c, cross up guard crush.

6c > 5dc > 2c > d bug > j236cd > c bug > d bug 1 > 22b > d bug 2 > 6a > 5c > 236236c

Disclosure: These were notated directly from the video, I did not practice them.

Skye thank you form this... I tryed some of these combos but I found some mistakes ...

[Skye]

https://twitter.com/Skye_pls/status/592904137508925441

[GoBL1N]

Got to put some time into akarune 2.0 since it came in the mail the other day. The timings are gonna take a little getting used to but feels like the bugs come a lot slower? Feels like to get j236c to connect with cd bugs you have to j236c and let go almost immediately as opposed to before where you would hold c and d for a bit.

 

It also looks like for the 6b j6d land j6c ja ja jb jc jb combo that people aren't doing j66d anymore? can anyone confirm the instant air dash isn't necessary anymore? I'm having trouble getting this to connect altogether...after j6c the ja always whiffs anyone have any tips for that who is landing it often? delay after j6d? walk forward a little bit after you land? not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[Elemenope]

C bug comes out later, D bug rises sooner after sinking into the ground. A bug feels off, but I didn't use it much in training mode, so I can't say with 100% certainty. I don't remember about B bug.

 

If you do IAD, after 6B, it has to be a very short one, otherwise they'll tech out I believe - haven't really messed around with Arakune a lot since game has came out, been focusing on valk. But from the small amount of play time I've had with him, that was my finding. As for the j.6C>j.A combo followup, I haven't been able to do it off of 6A>5D>j.A>j.4B>6B starter, but have been able to do it off of normal 6B starter, but I've never had an issue with it off of 6B starter. Once I get home from work, I'll mess around with the timing of some things for the 6A>5D starter and get back to you on it as I really want to keep Arakune something to use when I don't feel like playing Valk. But if you're having issues with a plain 6B starter, i'm not sure what tip to give you as I've found it rather consistent. If I had to guess, I'd say you probably have to walk forward slightly at some point or wait slightly longer after you jump but before you do j.6C.

[GoBL1N]

Ive had issues with connecting j6d/j66d land 6c ja ja ever since 1.1 no matter what the starter :< so I would really love to get whatever advice you find. I've been resorting to j6c j6c j236c for more reliable confirm

 

also your in VA? thats where I am...wanna show me in person lol

[Elemenope]

http://gfycat.com/ElementaryNearAphidHere's a gif of the combo with inputs. It's definitely easier on some characters than others. I had a hard time doing 6A>5D route against Jin for example, but on Azrael, it was really lenient.

[GoBL1N]

Thank you thats actually very helpful. Yeah I was practicing the the 6a 5d route and it was really unforgiving. getting the j4b in has been really hard for me.

 

How are you doing the timing of the 6d > spider at the end? That isn't working for me.

 

come to think of it the 6d > j3/6d (whichever it is) I'm struggling with as well but it seems like my issue was jumping too fast, it was canceling the bell bug.

 

edit: do we have to use j2a at the end? we end up on the other side. I tried 2.b but its not hitting but I'm quite certain I saw some videos of someone using j2b and it stayed on the same side.

[Elemenope]

If your main issue is that the bell bug does not appear when you do the j.22C input, then it's a matter of you're jump cancelling too early - you should delay your jump cancel slightly more.

If your issue is that the bell bug comes out, but they touch the ground before j.22C hits, try doing 282C for the input instead of 822C or 228C or jump cancel earlier.

 

As for your issue with getting the j.4B to land after the 6A>5D>iad j.A, there's a slight delay after the 5D and your airdash. The iad should be done as early as possible while the j.A should be done as late as possible I find so that Arakune is closer to the opponent for the followups. If your j.4B whiffs completely, then it might be due to hurtbox issues of the opposing character. If you only get 1 hit of j.4B and can't go into 6B as a result, then you're going into j.A>j.4B too early I believe.

 

I haven't really messed around with some of the other routes like 6D>j.D yet, just mainly the 5D>iad j.A route and some ghetto corner 100% curse routes I found before I saw the above video and getting used to the j.236CD timing again, but I assume the timing for 6D>j.D is similar to the 6D>tk 22C route just slightly delayed since spider comes from above to hit after opponent touches bell bug as opposed to the ground bug from the j.D. I'll probably put more training time with him after work if some friends don't want to play when I get home if you need more visual aid or have questions about something though.

 

As for j.2A vs j.2B, j.2A is consistent it seems. I haven't really tried j.2B, but I will later, since the corner push is appreciated to a degree - I really wish we had j.C ioh for curse. Depending on how much curse you have and how close to the corner you are, you can do j.2A>walk under>5D>(tk.22C/j.D/2D) I believe for curse.

[GoBL1N]

Thank you for the help i didnt even think to try 282 as an input. I'm curious which one you are doing more right now or which you find more reliable the 282 input or just trying to time the 8 22 right?

 

Actually right now my issue is the j4b isn't happening altogether. after j4a I'm landing. So it sounds like I need to maybe delay a little after the 5d?

 

Very good point, I forgot you can walk under after j2a.

 

For 100% corner curse I have found (5aa) 6b jd 5d 2/3d 6d to be very consistent. I can't afford to do anything fancy right now because I'm still trying to be consistent with the stuff I am working on with you right now so I'm very happy to have this corner combo for now.

[Elemenope]

282C is more reliable for me for that specific combo route as I feel it's a more natural timing for the jump cancel and getting a TK'd spider out.

 

You're not supposed to be doing j.4A, just IAD>j.5A>j.4B. Arakune should rise slightly from the natural airdash arc, j.A should hit, then a normal gatling into j.4B to have Arakune fall with the j.B gatling. Doing j.4A causes you to whiff j.4B as you're doing now.

[GoBL1N]

Thank you then that explains my problem. I thought it was 5d > 9 > iadj66 > j4a > j4b

 

cant wait to get home and try it properly then.

 

Just curious whats TK stand for? Ok good to know I will try both spider inputs out and see which one works for me.

[Elemenope]

TK is Tiger Knee which in this context is the abbreviation used for doing air specials as close to the ground as possible by inputting a jump somewhere in the input of the move. It's usually doing by inputting the jump at the end of the motion, but because jump cancellable stuff, you can input the jump anywhere during the move+hitstop and do the motion to have a TK'd special come out, which is why variations such as 228C and 282C work instead of just 822C for tk.22C.

[Skye]

That first combo is a doozy, first off you have to be point blank, any amount of spacing can cause the combo to drop at various points from at the very beginning to somewhere in the middle.

Ok so you 6a > 5d > iad j.a > j.4b, it's important that you do not j.4a, it just won't work. I usually got 2 hits on j.b before landing, if you're high enough you might get 3 hits, but the untech time is jank, if you're too far away, the iad j.a will drop.

Go right into 6b, this is another spot where the combo will drop if you're too far away, 2 hits on j.b got me the most consistent results, 3 hits ran the risk of hitstun running out. So 6b > j.6d just do it, no iad, it's not necessary in this version and it will almost always involve a combo drop, since they ground slide instead of hard knockdown.

 

After the j.6d this is where the combo can get difficult.

You j.6c (I was wrong about the j.6b), dj.forward > j.aa > j.b (3) > j.c

Let's break this down. First off if you're not close enough on the 6a the combo is essentially over after j.6c, if you are close enough then here's how it works;

Delay your jump, it's a very very small delay, one that you won't get the hang of until you've grinded it out, it's helpful to look at Arakune after his j.d animation to get a hold of the timing. Delay too long, opponent will tech, delay too short and your j.aa will never connect.

Next you want to j.6c as high as possible without whiffing. It's pretty precise, but doable. Too high and your j.b (3) > j.c will whiff, too low and the opponent will be too close to the ground after your j.c and j.2a won't connect. Master this.

 

Next you j.2a > DC > 6d > delay 282b. At this point you just need to make sure your delay is perfect, Do a 5c combo into this so you get it in your muscle memory. Afterwards congrats you have curse the opponent and scratched off almost 2k in health.

 

I'm making a video guys, there's more. I'll be sure to include curse set ups too, no part 2 needed!

[GoBL1N]

Thank you Skye definitely looking forward to that video.

 

And thank you to both of you your input is INVALUABLE and will save me a ton of grey hairs. I'm going to give all this a try when I get home. Also the TK explanation, that makes alot of sense, and is very nostalgic haha. I was definitely doing j4a j4b and the j4b was never happening because I was landing. I was actually trying to TKj4a j4b before.... Gonna see how stable this is for me once I stop doing that.

 

quick note, j2a DC, the DC can be done with any other j2X right? for example j2a then j2a right as I land. Or maybe I don't fully understand DC.

 

Its nice to have these new combos i feel like we can curse faster midscreen without using meter/CT like before, but goodness the meter drops so fast now. And it doesn't seem like you can do cd bug > 236cd > cd bug > 6c 5cd 2c > cdbug, anymore can anyone confirm this? my dummy keeps recovering during the rekkaken after 6c so its not a c bug timing issue the 6c just doesn't seem to pin them down long enough.