[CP] Arakune Technical and Gameplay Discussion Thread

[GoBL1N]

j214A = teleport.

 

before: teleports you forward, good coverage. Usually appear behind the enemy. Kinda similair to Azrael dashing behind you. And we all know how that feels.

 

Now: teleports you a forward. Doesn't have any coverage and you can't teleport behind the enemy (unless you execute it when you're point blank range away from the enemy). In my opinion, that was what made Arakune airborne (and help keep up with Tao and Mu, personally)

 

Jeez... didn't the Top JP player Souji gave up on this character in this installment? Can't find a single video using Arakune CP2.0

 

I didnt know j214 a ever put you behind the opponent, i know regular 214a did, but thats actually pretty amazing if it did. what do you mean by coverage? So now j214a doesn't? sad times....

[antonymichiru]

Oh...b, but Amane's beautiful like a butterfly. I only summon a grotesque butterfly (?)

 

But no worries. It's just the usual "adjusting to the new update (full price) and getting salty" phase. It'll pass. I swear.

 

...man Arakune's hard this time around. That j214A is really killing me

Ahahahaha :D that's true... Amane is beautiful *_*

[Skye]

Recording is done, just need to find a decent video editing software that won't make my wallet cry.

[GoBL1N]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with the dive cancel > 6d > j22c timing. I'm really struggling. when are you guys timing the 282c, or rather when are you starting it? My bell bug keeps not materializing. I have almost stabilized everything except getting the spider to connect. Either arakune jumps and does the spider with no bell bug or the spider is too late. Any tips? its pretty frustrating being so close to being able to do the jc ja ja jb jc j2b dc 6d j22c route on demand but always messing up the spider...

[Elemenope]

It's a slightly awkard delay, a bit slower than the corner 6D>bug>j.6A route I believe, I can't remember.

 

If the timing is still tough, just break down that part into a normal combo troubleshooting:

 

A) If the bug doesn't come out but spider comes out, you're jump cancelling too early

B) If the bug comes out, but spider does not combo, you're not doing TK spider fast enough (or you're doing ground spider, but this shouldn't happen)

C) If bug comes out, but they tech before hitting it, you're doing 6D too slowly (This shouldn't happen with dive cancel variations I believe due to the nature of the route, barring any combo timer techs)

 

If you want to practice it more easily, instead of doing the long combo route, just do 5C starter into air combo into dive>dive cancel>6D>tk.spider.

[GoBL1N]

thank you, is there anything in particular you are doing or using as a cue? or did you just eventually get used to the timing?

[Elemenope]

It's just timing for me. You could probably try some sort of visual cue on Arakune, but I find visual cues with horizontal screen movement to be annoying for me.

[Argent Zero]

Trying to pull the 6D>282C combo is near impossible for me online >.<

 

I just use the spiders by themselves, catching opponents off guard after I spew fogs

[GoBL1N]

It's near impossible for me on a training dummy but I am grinding the 5a 6b starter and using the j2b dive so the timing is much more unforgiving. But I intend to grind this out until it stabilizes

[GoBL1N]

On a different note, elemenope just curious about your 6a 5d starter, after the 5d jump cancel j66 ja are you holding down the ja for the input buffer or are you just that used to the timing? my j66 ja keeps barely whiffing...

[Elemenope]

That's just the timing I'm used to, I'm not purposely trying to take advantage of the advanced input buffer or anything.

 

Keep in mind that hurtboxes also play a role in it (although I don't feel the effect is as pronounced as for the 6B>j.6C>j.A portion). Try it on a different character if you can't seem to get the link, so you get adjusted to the timing.

[GoBL1N]

I was wondering if anyone could explain the timing of (during bug curse)

 

5a[aa] (piano in C bug somewhere) > 66  > C bug bites crossup. When I see the C bug hit in a video/combo movie the opponent is in range of 6c but when I do it on a training dummy the c bug pushes the opponent out of reach. Does anyone know what I may be doing wrong?  

[GoBL1N]

That's just the timing I'm used to, I'm not purposely trying to take advantage of the advanced input buffer or anything.

 

Keep in mind that hurtboxes also play a role in it (although I don't feel the effect is as pronounced as for the 6B>j.6C>j.A portion). Try it on a different character if you can't seem to get the link, so you get adjusted to the timing.

 

Ok sounds good thank you. I was just curious have you ever successfully done the 6a 5d route on Jin?

[Darret_Wallace]

I was wondering if anyone could explain the timing of (during bug curse)

 

5a[aa] (piano in C bug somewhere) > 66  > C bug bites crossup. When I see the C bug hit in a video/combo movie the opponent is in range of 6c but when I do it on a training dummy the c bug pushes the opponent out of reach. Does anyone know what I may be doing wrong?  

Is the C bug hitting or guard breaking? It should be doing the latter

[Elemenope]

I was wondering if anyone could explain the timing of (during bug curse)

 

5a[aa] (piano in C bug somewhere) > 66  > C bug bites crossup. When I see the C bug hit in a video/combo movie the opponent is in range of 6c but when I do it on a training dummy the c bug pushes the opponent out of reach. Does anyone know what I may be doing wrong?  

 

If the C-bug hits (as in they're not in blockstun after you cross them up), they get pulled with the C-bug I believe. If it guard crushes (as in they're in blockstun when C-bug touches them, but since you crossed up, they don't have barrier active), they get sent backwards in standard guard crush animation (towards you, since you crossed up) I believe.

 

 

Ok sounds good thank you. I was just curious have you ever successfully done the 6a 5d route on Jin?

 

I believe I did it at least once before, but it's really inconsistent with certain timings. You may have to delay things in multiple places to hit it. I may be misremembering it though, been playing other games lately.

[GoBL1N]

If the C-bug hits (as in they're not in blockstun after you cross them up), they get pulled with the C-bug I believe. If it guard crushes (as in they're in blockstun when C-bug touches them, but since you crossed up, they don't have barrier active), they get sent backwards in standard guard crush animation (towards you, since you crossed up) I believe.

 

 

 

I believe I did it at least once before, but it's really inconsistent with certain timings. You may have to delay things in multiple places to hit it. I may be misremembering it though, been playing other games lately.

 

Thank you, it was just a training dummy not set to block so it was a normal hit. I didn't know it worked like that. So sounds like one is the result of C bug hit and one is the result of guard crush animation.

I guess that begs the question though, if I crossed them up, why would they be guarding but not barrier guarding? If I cross them up wouldn't both guard and barrier guard be inactive or is there some mechanic that allows them to keep doing a regular guard but not a barrier guard if they are crossed up? Does the guard carry over even if they are still blocking the wrong way? my logic is:

 

if i cross them up, they are guarding the wrong way so both guard and barrier wouldn't be occurring.

if my opponent sees the crossup and guards properly and recognizes the C bug crush coming, then they should have the barrier active.

 

The only option I am left with for the ideal scenario where 6c can reach then would be, I crossup, opponent guards the correct direction but doesn't barrier, but that doesn't make sense unless they just fail to recognize the C bug crush coming.

 

Is my thinking wrong here or?

[Elemenope]

I guess that begs the question though, if I crossed them up, why would they be guarding but not barrier guarding? If I cross them up wouldn't both guard and barrier guard be inactive or is there some mechanic that allows them to keep doing a regular guard but not a barrier guard if they are crossed up? Does the guard carry over even if they are still blocking the wrong way?

 

It's because they're in a true blockstring from when they block the attack to when they block C-bug. Barrier still operates on a 4AB scenario, so when you cross them up during a true blockstring, they'll still be blocking due to how blocking during true blockstrings work in this game, but their barrier won't be active as they're no longer holding 4AB but holding 6AB during the blockstring. So C-bug guard crushes.

 

You can kinda just think about what happens when a D-bug falls on the opponent while you dash or teleport through the opponent and they block it. When Arakune goes through the opponent while the very first D-bug hitbox is blocked, the opponent doesn't need to attempt to switch direction to block the other hits as the D-bug is still sinking. Or any multihitting moves that do not leave a sufficient gap like 5B or Nu 5C - once the opponent blocks the first hit of it, you can let go of the stick or start spinning it if you want while still blocking the followup hits.

 

So your first thought was correct in that you cross them up, they are guarding the wrong way; but the follow up to it was incorrect in that blocking would still be occuring.

[GoBL1N]

It's because they're in a true blockstring from when they block the attack to when they block C-bug. Barrier still operates on a 4AB scenario, so when you cross them up during a true blockstring, they'll still be blocking due to how blocking during true blockstrings work in this game, but their barrier won't be active as they're no longer holding 4AB but holding 6AB during the blockstring. So C-bug guard crushes.

 

You can kinda just think about what happens when a D-bug falls on the opponent while you dash or teleport through the opponent and they block it. When Arakune goes through the opponent while the very first D-bug hitbox is blocked, the opponent doesn't need to attempt to switch direction to block the other hits as the D-bug is still sinking. Or any multihitting moves that do not leave a sufficient gap like 5B or Nu 5C - once the opponent blocks the first hit of it, you can let go of the stick or start spinning it if you want while still blocking the followup hits.

 

So your first thought was correct in that you cross them up, they are guarding the wrong way; but the follow up to it was incorrect in that blocking would still be occuring.

 

Thank you that explanation is actually extremely helpful. Now I understand what is going on. Sounds like I need to work on my timing then and make sure that it is a true blockstring. You wouldn't happen to have any suggestions would you? Is it something like, 5a~ca > 66 ? or maybe 5aa~ca > 66 ? (i forget the symbol for pianoing in so I am using ~). I will have to rewatch the videos now that I know what is going on and see what is hitting just before the c bug.

[Elemenope]

5A~C>5A>66 works for basic setup. It's stupidly ambiguous depending on if they barrier the 5As in anticipation of the C-bug and depending on when you dash.

[GoBL1N]

does anyone have any good curse combo setups in the corner? I'm having trouble with mine. I can't exactly C bug cross up in the corner like you would mid screen...or maybe I'm wrong?

[GoBL1N]

 

 

I believe I did it at least once before, but it's really inconsistent with certain timings. You may have to delay things in multiple places to hit it. I may be misremembering it though, been playing other games lately.

 

Just wanted to let you/everyone know that I was able to finally get the entire thing done on a jin training dummy. The execution/timing is brutal to say the least but I did it and it is possible. That being said I seem to have issues getting the jc to connect after j4b 6b. 50% of the time the training dummy is recovering prematurely before the jc does anyone else have this issue with j4b 6b?

[Elemenope]

does anyone have any good curse combo setups in the corner? I'm having trouble with mine. I can't exactly C bug cross up in the corner like you would mid screen...or maybe I'm wrong?

 

Corner would be your standard setups, high/low or left/right when you're over their head with j.C/dive/airdash

 

Just wanted to let you/everyone know that I was able to finally get the entire thing done on a jin training dummy. The execution/timing is brutal to say the least but I did it and it is possible. That being said I seem to have issues getting the jc to connect after j4b 6b. 50% of the time the training dummy is recovering prematurely before the jc does anyone else have this issue with j4b 6b?

 

Are you saying they tech out before j.C hits when you do j.A>j.A>j.B>j.C? This usually happens when you're too far away for j.C to hit, in which case, let j.B hit one more time which should put you in range, or slightly delay the second j.A and j.B.

[GoBL1N]

Corner would be your standard setups, high/low or left/right when you're over their head with j.C/dive/airdash

 

 

Are you saying they tech out before j.C hits when you do j.A>j.A>j.B>j.C? This usually happens when you're too far away for j.C to hit, in which case, let j.B hit one more time which should put you in range, or slightly delay the second j.A and j.B.

 

could you explain more for what you mean with the j.c/dive/airdash, other than 214a I am not sure how corner becomes left/right.

 

sorry I meant after j4b 6b 9 j6d land 9 j6c, the j6c, the "bird" part, has a high miss rate for me i'd say about 50% of the time right now its missing.

[Crescens]

So I am having trouble connecting the 6CCC rekka after j236]CD[ and have another C bug connect past the rekka. Either the Rekka drops on the 2nd hit or the C bug does not come out in time. Any advice for this? And once the final C bug hits what is the best thing to do? 5C super? 

[Elemenope]

So I am having trouble connecting the 6CCC rekka after j236]CD[ and have another C bug connect past the rekka. Either the Rekka drops on the 2nd hit or the C bug does not come out in time. Any advice for this? And once the final C bug hits what is the best thing to do? 5C super? 

 

Depending on starter, rekka drops after pinwheel. If you have proper starter and try it and C Bug does not come out in time, release it earlier on the pinwheel and slightly delay the rekka if needed. You can hold C once you start 6C to go through the whole rekka if you're worried about C bug coming out at the wrong time when you attempt to do 6C>5C>2C, though the timing feels awkward imo if you've been used to doing 6C>[5/6]C>[2/3]C the whole time. After last C-bug happens, D-bug should hit so you can do 22X>6A>5C>super I believe. If D-bug doesn't come out for whatever reason, you can just skip 22X I think and go into 6A>5C>Super usually.