[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[kirbster]

3c is -1 on block? That's kind of a big nerf

[gamester]

I'm not good with Frame Data but I guess that means there is a possibility we could be punished for using 3C on block and would that also mean there will be gaps between something like 3C > 236A ?

Thought I'd write something down and ask as I don't understand frame data that well.

[Zoular]

wasn't 3C > 236A always a gap?

[kirbster]

3c used to be +0 on block. This means after the opponent blocked it, both of us were allowed to move at the same time. So our 5a (which is 6 frames) would beat everything they did unless it was a 5 frame jab, or at worse trade with their own 6 frame move (and it loses to invincible reversals of course). What makes it good is that we can hold 3c for extra hits, so the opponent is not sure when they're allowed to press a button. This makes them want to keep blocking and allows us to continue pressuring.

Now that it is -1 on block, they can move one frame before us so it'll be harder to interrupt them... We're gonna be trading with a lot more 2a's ._.

[sparkaura]

It doesn't seem to affect her much right now, but oh well..

On another note, N-O just got a gold ticket for Arc Revo Cup (it was time)! I'm not sure which region, somewhere in Osaka I think. Runner-up is Nukosu (Rachel), Zero got eliminated first round by N-O lol.

About time! I was getting scared that there weren't gonna be a lot of Rachels. 3c being minus on block sucks though.

[gamester]

Thanks for the explanation. I think I can now see how 3C being -1 on block affects us in those terms. I think it'll be a while before I can get Frame Data knowledge in general to sink into my head though, thanks again

wasn't 3C > 236A always a gap?

I don't know/understand Frame Data... I guess I just used it as a method (replacement) to stop summoning frog after my opponent blocked my 3C xD

But I do remember/notice when I was against Kiba at Super Versus Battle, he managed to get in and attack me a lot when I kept doing 3C > 236A. So I assume there is a gap.

[TD]

3c nerf is pretty bad but not completely so, it's still completely safe by itself and there are still a few tricks that can be used to keep the pressure on.

3c 236a is not gapless unless done immediately at point blank range and not instant blocked. As a string, it got even more nerfed with 236a traveling less horizontal space.

Because her zoning is sooooo much better, I don't mind lol.

In other news: mixup thread is almost done. Perhaps in a few days, another week tops. There are no designs, just lots of info, like a book. If someone wants to add that sort of stuff then be my guest.

[maximummcnugget]

3c being -1 on block isnt terrible imo. Also explains why you almost never see in pressure strings anymore.

Anyhow, with Rachel's pressure being as amazing as it is already and looking even better in CP with instant overhead nonsense working on the whole cast and jump cancelable 6B.

+1 vote for cat chair as best reversal. lol

P.S. looking forward to the mixup thread.

[gamester]

I'm still weak on mix ups so I think it's going to be fantastic to read through when you've set the thread up

Thanks for clarifying 3C > 236A, I wonder if barrier was used against my 3C when I was against Kiba at the time. I can't remember the pushback on 3C if Barrier is used against it xD

Btw I though I'd ask a question here than on the Rachel CP Video Posting Thread. Would you all rather have full names for Characters in the video links, or are you guys ok with shortened names for example Taokaka = Tao, Valkenhayn becomes Valk, to save on the "50,000 character limit" space and keep all videos in one post.

Example: Rachel (Name) Vs Valk (Name)

Thought I'd ask opinions on how you would like the links to be presented, I mean some may prefer full Character names shown, some wouldn't mind shortened down names so I thought I'd dig around for peoples opinions

[Zoular]

I kinda did what the Tsubaki video thread did. RA (name) vs VK (name)

EDIT: lastest Sasakuchi 2on2 upload has SESU!!

Edited April 8, 2013 by Zoular

[samthegreat]

Hmm... Cool but he's definitely far behind N-O or Rin in CP. Oh and congrats to the latter for reaching 17th Dan!

[Minutes]

Where's Matsu? ._.

(Mazo Hime)

[currentlemon]

Where's Matsu? ._.

(Mazo Hime)

Who knows. I'm beginning to think that he quit BB a long time ago.

[samthegreat]

He's appeared a few times in CS:EX though.

[Minutes]

Yeah, he did. There's some gamechariot vids from August

Also, I prefer "RC" to abbreviate Rachel more than "RA" (I've seen both though)

[kirbster]

Yeah, actually it should always be like this to avoid confusion :

RC = Rachel

RG = Ragna

TG = Tager

TK = Taokaka

RA and TA is too ambiguous

[Zoular]

^agreed, although seeing RC and TK always reminds me of rapid cancel and tiger knee

[Stoneroth]

Just got back from Japan the other day and played a little CP when I was there. Overall, I really like the new Rachel.

In regards to 3C being -1 on block, Ragna was punishing me when I attempted 236A afterwards. My memory is a little hazy and I can't remember what he was doing exactly.

Do her Lobelias have increased recovery? Because it really felt like it when I was playing.

I struggled to adjust to 4B but I enjoyed using it mid combo. 6B being jump cancellable again is amazing and her j.B overhead on Hakumen and Tager is pretty great.

Hopefully the console release comes soon. Now I'm back at home playing Extend where I can count the number of local dedicated players on my fingers.

[Kurushii]

You know the game had official abbreviations right?

From BBCSE Console:

[Minutes]

That's such a ball buster @ potentially increased lobelia recovery. I'm a 236A whore ._.

[TD]

pretty sure recovery is the same, just the nerfing of horizontal coverage has made naked ground lobelias less useful in general.

for example, it looks like c lobelia fires, reaches maximum peak and stops, then descends at a steeper slope than EX c lobelia, making it more difficult to harass fullscreen opponents without wind/gaining ground.

pros include being able to wind around -during- air lobelias and of course b lotus making them really fucking annoying to get past.

[gamester]

Thank you everyone for your input on how you would like to see the names in the Video Thread links be presented, it seems most would like to see 2 letters used instead of shortened names. That's fantastic, even better for saving on the 50,000 character limit space.

I thought it best to gather views/opinions before making any changes, as I would like to make the thread presentable to how you are all most suited/comfortable with. At the end of the day, you are the guys who will be using the Video Thread

I will begin changing the names soon. Probably on Sunday when I do the ranking updates etc.

For now, taking into account the use of 2 letters for the playable character names. I will be creating a key which will state which 2 letters belong to whom, for example "JN = Jin".

The 2 letters for each playable character will be based on the official listings. Amane, Azrael, Bullet and Izayoi will have their 2 letters based on how the smiles (Ball) list has them, for example "AM = Amane".

[Tari]

I'll try to remember to go through the rest of Rachel's moves and clean up that frame data page this weekend. Sorry about the delay, guys.

That said, I checked the data for A/B/C tiny lobelia, and it's pretty much the expected (if unwanted) info:

• A tiny lobelia's frame advantage is nerfed from -4 to -6
  
• B/C tiny lobelia's frame advantage is nerfed from -6 to -8
  

The tiny lobelia startup, (total) recovery, move level, blockstun, etc. remains unchanged.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Tari

[kodimt]

CP Rachel seems a lot more refreshing, I'm really glad. Been so stale lately.

4B change is going to straight up body me though. Going to be a rough habit to break using it in blockstrings.

[samthegreat]

I can't say I worry too much about nerfs suggested by frame data since I've already seen what she can do through N-O and the likes and I have no concern.

Edited April 13, 2013 by samthegreat