[P4A] Chie Satonaka Vs. Elizabeth

[Amadeus46Art]

This thread is for discussion of the Matchup against Elizabeth. Please post any relevant information here. The OP will be updated regularly with any information posted in the thread that could aide the summary of the matchup.

Matchup Ranking:

Your Plan:

Their Plan:

Openers:

Punishes:

Neutral Game:

Character Specific Notes:

[Plasmachaser]

I feel I need to post here because for some reason I feel this is my worst match up. I find that once she makes enough space for herself everything just goes down hill. She seems to have such a legit zoning game that even when I get the opportunity to get in I get grabbed by either her or her persona. If anyone has any tips on how to get in more consistently or tips on how to dodge certain moves I am all ears.

[TheSeltsamOne]

If you can block the 5C then you can hit her Persona real quick with 2A or 5A and if she tries to use her 2C or 5D anyway you can use the time to dash in a bit.

Be ready to block the Maziodyne or whatever else she tries while you're dashing, of course.

Edit:

After trying some more things, I found that it's actually best to jump and block quickly after the downward slash in the 5C, so you can jump over the 5D or block the 2C or another 5C in mid-air. After blocking you can hit Thanatos if it was 5D or 2C.

Edited August 13, 2012 by TheSeltsamOne

[Celerity]

I view the matchup as a battle to either:

a.) Break her persona and win.

b.) Get into awakening and meteor, and win.

I don't have enough experience to give real advice beyond that, but from what I've seen, breaking the persona should be the focus. 5C and j.2D seem to beat out Thanatos a lot, since Thanatos has very few active frames.

[M89 x IMMoRTal]

Breaking her Persona make the match a lot easier. also I notice some Elizabeth players like to keep pressure with the persona, if you just roll past the persona you should be able to punish.

[Rhiya]

Edit:

After trying some more things, I found that it's actually best to jump and block quickly after the downward slash in the 5C, so you can jump over the 5D or block the 2C or another 5C in mid-air. After blocking you can hit Thanatos if it was 5D or 2C.

Yeah, I was playing an Elizabeth last night and found jumping out /really/ effective against Thanatos blockstrings. Can anyone confirm this is legit, either via experience or testing?

[Kiba]

It's legit.

Just make sure you don't jump backwards late because she could catch you in the air with Mabufudyne, which is air unblockable, or even JD.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Kiba

[Rhiya]

Oh hey, Kiba.

Thanks, man.

[Kiba]

To be more specific, this is what I mean when I say you should be careful in jumping backwards, making sure not to jump back late. This is what I mean with JD, though she missed it's just to show you.

Nice to see ya and NP.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Kiba

[TheSeltsamOne]

I tried setting up the mabufudyne in training mode and it seems like you need to put a small delay between the 5C and mabufudyne if the 5C is blocked, so it takes a bit longer to hit than 2C would, so maybe you could time it so you jump straight up in case of her 5D, block in mid-air in case of her 2C, and then j.C also in mid-air to hit Thanatos before he can mabufudyne? I've tried to get the mabufudyne out as fast as possible, but it only seems fast enough to get destroyed at the same time it lands its first swing. It may be a bit unreasonable to try to get the jump, block, and j.C out with such precise timing, I may still be putting the mabufudyne out too slow, and the JD may still be a problem, but it's an idea.

I'm still having problems getting past her normals, though. They just seem to have such long range.

Edited August 13, 2012 by TheSeltsamOne

[Rhiya]

5B

is really minus, if they're spamming 5B. If they're spacing it wrong you should be able to punish it. j.B

is good, from what I understand, so you'll have to work around it.

Also, persona breaking Thanatos makes the match easier, but I wouldn't get too caught up in it. Since Elizabeth's health is extremely low (7500), she dies really quickly if you force her into your oki game. Persona breaking Thanatos is definitely a way to help you get in, but if you see an opening to get in another way (like jumping out of that blockstring and moving forward), I'd take it if at all possible.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos

[Plasmachaser]

Thanks guys. I feel like I've gained some info on this match up.

[Errol]

how do you punish her FA anyway?

[Rhiya]

You can throw reject it, but I'm not too sure about actually punishing it

[Errol]

I find it infuriating for that reason. I mean, it seems like it has invulnerability for a really long time, I'm not even sure how much recovery it has. mostly attempts have been met with it being mashed again when I try to punish. Maybe jump straight up and punish after landing?

[Plasmachaser]

Actually thanks to all you guys great suggestions I have come up with some pretty good idea on how to beat her FA.

If you come in doing 2A and she starts FA, you can hop (2A+B) to immune the grab and get a Fatal Counter right after that. All this assuming the persona is dead first of course.

[ZomB]

This matchup is definitely Chie favor because once you learn how to deal with it, her options while being pressured are very poor. (Maybe 6:4)

The difficulty lies in getting in. For the first half of the match you need to learn what options Thanatos has. At full screen Liz actually has a really hard time forcing a mixup. If you're attentive you can detect the command throw, and block/jab everything else. This will force her to adjust her spacing or have her persona broken. Once she starts using j.b to try to force things, you can dash under and 2b her if you have the right spacing.

Rolling is a very poor option vs Thanatos!!! 2C and 5D will both body it for free.

When Liz's burst they like to follow up with ex agidyne (fire move?), jump forward and double jump back to avoid this. If she hits you with her B+D, she will probably do this as well. In that situation you have to block, or else you will get hit.

Don't be afraid to burst aggressively (if she manages to mash 2b out of the corner, or if you have OMB combo that will kill), most good Liz players will be running unburstable combos.

She has very poor options during jab dash jab pressure, just be prepared to jump if you see B+D or to throw release when you see her only other option(instant block, grab) - a throw release will also help you out if you accidentally get tagged by her B+D.

To punish a B+D you jumped while pressuring, air turn -> airdash j.BB 5B2B 2AB, if you have the presence of mind to jump backwards, you can land and do 5b2d -> etc.

Don't jump while pressuring unless you're sure she's doing B+D! Otherwise you'll get tagged by 2b regardless of what you do and lose a big chunk of health.

The main thing to watch out for is if she corners you and is about at the tip of her 5b range. Here, if you jab Thanatos, she will get a free punish, so you need to find another way to escape.

Oh yeah, and meteors is broken vs her, save all your meter for either killing with god's fist or using meteors for free mixups.

Edited August 29, 2012 by ZomB