Surf Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 According to Rachel durring her fight with Izayoi, Rachel stated that Saya wanted to use Tsubaki and the Izayoi as a trump card in order to keep her and Kokonoe from intervening and interfering with her plans. It was loosely translated, but I think it stated something that Rachel was glad that Tsubaki was free from the Imperator's control. Tsubaki then stated that she was to follow the same path as Haku-Men, and attempt to kill Ragna. Why It does come off that he suddenly wants to kill/erase Ragna. But why
mAc Chaos Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 She is probably in love with the Power of Order. That was why she liked the NOL.
GenoWhirl Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 >Tsubaki then stated that she was to follow the same path as Haku-Men, and attempt to kill Ragna. man cant' catch a fucking break
harmless kitten Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 So what about the character Izayoi? Izayoi is just Tsubaki after awakening the true form of Izayoi. But she's still Tsubaki. Rachel uses kill in brackets so who knows what's going on with her. @Surf: What? Why she wants to kill Ragna? First off, Tsubaki has never liked Ragna. "Ragna the Bloodedge! All of this has happened because of you. I will never forgive you. Prepare yourself." Now, she's somewhat aware of Ragna's circumstances. She says he's the source of all evil and calls him Dark One in their intro.
mAc Chaos Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Man, all that "source of all evil" and "Dark One" stuff made more sense when I thought he was the reincarnated Black Beast. Instead of just some dude who wears it's corpse as an arm.
harmless kitten Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 But Ragna is the Black Beast in a way. Plus there's his destiny as the Destroyer, unless Jubei was being highly metaphorical and rather florid.
mAc Chaos Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 How is he the Black Beast? Well, originally in CT I thought that his destiny as the Destroyer was BECAUSE he was the Black Beast, not that they were two separate, unrelated things.
harmless kitten Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I say in a way due to the, uh, nature of the Black Beast and being the host for the Azure Grimoire. Plus those Black Beast genes had to come from someone. There isn't a whole lot of information on Ragna's fate, aside from the lesson he gives Jin and some other scattered references like Arakune's ramblings. I go with the precisely opposite interpretation: that Ragna is the Black Beast because he is the Destroyer. It's the way his destiny decided to manifest itself. But I take a much more literal approach to the whole Destroyer/Power of Order issue.
Surf Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 @Surf: What? Why she wants to kill Ragna? First off, Tsubaki has never liked Ragna. "Ragna the Bloodedge! All of this has happened because of you. I will never forgive you. Prepare yourself." Now, she's somewhat aware of Ragna's circumstances. She says he's the source of all evil and calls him Dark One in their intro. Im aware of her feelings towards him and their intros in each respective game. But Im still asking why. If what Wild Candy says is right then shes not under Mind Eater anymore during her conversation with Rachel. Instead of going after the person (Imperator) that controled her and almost forced her to kill her 2 best friends and the man she loves, she goes after..... Ragna. Logic
Narroo Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Im aware of her feelings towards him and their intros in each respective game. But Im still asking why. If what Wild Candy says is right then shes not under Mind Eater anymore during her conversation with Rachel. Instead of going after the person (Imperator) that controled her and almost forced her to kill her 2 best friends and the man she loves, she goes after..... Ragna. Logic It's Tsubaki. Would you expect anything less?
Surf Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 You would think she would have a mind of her own now. Guess not #BlameMori
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 She is probably in love with the Power of Order. That was why she liked the NOL. Bitches love the Power of Order. I'm still holding out till the localized version of the game to clear up this Tsubaki/Izayoi shit. Most of what we got are pretty questionable translations at best.
Surf Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Then gets stab through her body again. Stupid in every timeline. I love everything about her except that aspect
Wild Candy Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Poor Tsubaki... Just a mere tool of the NOL... And by the time she actually gets a will of her own, she decides not to take revenge on the people who tried to get her kill her two best friends and love of her life, along with just using her for the Izayoi, she wants to go after Ragna... I kinda hope that Rachel and Ragna curb stomp Izayoi/Tsubaki like a Mofo!
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I love how much of a tool she is despite how strong she tries to be. Alright, I think we should clear things up here. I don't think Tsubaki is only going after Ragna, just like how Hakumen & Jin have their grudges against him on the side in order to accomplish other things, the same is probably true for her too. Killing Ragna is probably a secondary goal for her.
kylehyde Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I love how much of a tool she is despite how strong she tries to be. Alright, I think we should clear things up here. I don't think Tsubaki is only going after Ragna, just like how Hakumen & Jin have their grudges against him on the side in order to accomplish other things, the same is probably true for her too. Killing Ragna is probably a secondary goal for her. I don't know about her having a goal other than killing Ragna. It really seems like thats all she cares about after that conversation with Rachel. I guess the only other goal she could have is protecting her friends. But of course she feels like she needs to kill Ragna to accomplish this. I don't like Tsubaki and I can tell I'm going to hate her so much more after CP >___<. I guess it's too much to hope for that she is going to forgive Ragna towards the end of CP.
Wild Candy Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I just feel sorry for Ragna... He just has a bad rep. Even Makoto started to get a little apprehensive after she found out from Tao that he was Ikaruga and searching for Noel.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I don't know about her having a goal other than killing Ragna. It really seems like thats all she cares about after that conversation with Rachel. I guess the only other goal she could have is protecting her friends. But of course she feels like she needs to kill Ragna to accomplish this. I don't like Tsubaki and I can tell I'm going to hate her so much more after CP >___<. I guess it's too much to hope for that she is going to forgive Ragna towards the end of CP. We have such little information about her so that's a real leap in logic to just assume she's just going to go after Ragna just because. Especially since this is simply the Arcade mode, and things get muddled in there. I just feel sorry for Ragna... He just has a bad rep. Even Makoto started to get a little apprehensive after she found out from Tao that he was Ikaruga and searching for Noel. Has the fact that Ragna is technically a criminal completely gone over everyone's head? This is still the same guy who's slaughtered millions at a local cauldron simply because they were in his way. That title of "Grim Reaper" isn't just for show, so it isn't too out there for people to be weary of him based on reputation alone.
mAc Chaos Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 Yeah, even when Tsubaki was going full NOL, from her perspective it was like Noel went and joined al Qaeda after hanging out with Osama bin Laden.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 And from Makoto's perspective, imagine your best friend is being searched for by the most wanted criminal in the world and you're aware of his atrocities. I'd be pretty nervous too.
harmless kitten Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Has the fact that Ragna is technically a criminal completely gone over everyone's head? This is still the same guy who's slaughtered millions at a local cauldron simply because they were in his way. That title of "Grim Reaper" isn't just for show, so it isn't too out there for people to be weary of him based on reputation alone. I'm not one to gloss over Ragna's death toll, but uhhhhhhh millions is a huge exaggeration. At least a dozen, but more like a hundred. Anybody that stood in his way was cut down. Which is still reprehensible, but w/e
NovaFortuna Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 It doesn't turn Ragna into a villiain, but he doesn't go clean on the deal either. He may not be a bad guy, but he isn't a complete innocent either.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I'm not one to gloss over Ragna's death toll, but uhhhhhhh millions is a huge exaggeration. At least a dozen, but more like a hundred. Anybody that stood in his way was cut down. Which is still reprehensible, but w/e Well the quantity wasn't really the point. I was just pointing out that Ragna isn't exactly a saint in-universe and that characters have a legit reason to fear/hate him. It doesn't turn Ragna into a villiain, but he doesn't go clean on the deal either. He may not be a bad guy, but he isn't a complete innocent either. You could say all of his suffering is just karma coming to bite him in the ass, while it laughs at him while calling him a "puppy".
Skye Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Whether or not it makes him a villain is irrelevant. Murder is a crime, even in the fictional world of BB. Ragna is a criminal.
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