[^C] Baiken [STRAT]

[Rinsuku]

Johnny laughs at dust loops.

Lol. so does Potemkin. It's kinda hard for me to DL him

[Hellmonkey]

It's more damage to throw in the corner -> ground tatami sj DL

[IllogicalDreamr]

It's more damage to throw in the corner -> ground tatami sj DL

Does it prorate if you c.S>f.S from a throw?

[Hellmonkey]

proration happens at the beginning of a combo, or with moves that have forced proration. Baiken's throws are prorated 50%, so the rest of the moves you do afterwards do 50% of the damage they would have done with no proration (or around there) tatami mats are 40 damage but take away very little guard balance, so they're much better to start a combo after a throw than her ground normals.

[Rinsuku]

proration happens at the beginning of a combo, or with moves that have forced proration. Baiken's throws are prorated 50%, so the rest of the moves you do afterwards do 50% of the damage they would have done with no proration (or around there)

tatami mats are 40 damage but take away very little guard balance, so they're much better to start a combo after a throw than her ground normals.

Yea..but it's much harder to pull off a mat. Most of the time it misses. Doesn't really matter to me. A combo is a combo.

[rtl42]

FRCs are "hard" to do, but i bet you still practice them anyways.

[Hellmonkey]

Yea..but it's much harder to pull off a mat. Most of the time it misses. Doesn't really matter to me. A combo is a combo.

Double tap the kick button, makes it easier. The timing is tight though.

[youcanwonder]

new dust combo??? sorry i been out of the loop for a little while, could someone repost and hellmonkey are you frcing the tatami after the throw?? one more thing can someone post some sharon vids or some other baiken players like i said been out of the loop for a lil bit thank you

[Hellmonkey]

http://norematch.com/ has some baiken videos up.

No you do not FRC the tatami after the throw, you jump and j.P. On lighter characters you may need to super jump.

The new bnb dust combo is 5D jc j.HS j.S (or reverse, j.S j.HS, both with impossible dust timing), j.S j.D *wait* j.S j.D ad j.S j.D, j.D

[rtl42]

yup, it's in the baiken combo vid, actually. (SB Tyrant Rave into Sakura lol)

[Villainous]

Alright I'm trying to pick up Baiken and I noticed Yozansen has an FRC like IMMEDIATELY. I can't land it for the life of me but what's it's good for? Seems like it's before the active frames.

[Hellmonkey]

it's good for using full screen to confuse the opponent, making them wonder what move got an FRC since the words don't even come out

for serious response please read http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3195

[Villainous]

haha so basically it's like....random blue shit on the screen out of nowhere. BEST FRC EVER. Edit: this is scrubby as hell but I was messing around with the super counters and found something half decent. If you do the S super counter into the P follow up, it leaves you at enough frame advantage (+10 the data says) where you can just do her 236236S super for free since it'll be unblockable for a good chunk of health and they're sitting there forced to block it. I imagine that's pretty good as a round ender when you're sitting on a ton of tension. I dunno, probably better stuff out there but hey, it's flashy! <3

[rtl42]

baku: tsuru prorates like hell, so it's a waste of tension to super afterwards (imho, unless they're already almost dead i guess). also, both H and D follow-ups knockdown, in case you haven't tried them out by now.

[Villainous]

Do you guys even use the super counters or do you stick to the S FRC one mostly?

[rtl42]

can't say *i've* played around with them, but that's my own fault for not trying out new stuff. on the other hand, my feeling is that there are at best a couple of useful set-ups involving the baku overdrives, so it's pretty much a gimmick. edit: yeah i just tried them out, i guess there could be really unusual situations where you could use it to mess with your opponent's head (like Baku: Sakura for sealing dash & jump), and the unblockable one is an unblockable shrug. but still, the tension:damage ratio doesn't usually make it worth your while, compared to your other tension-based options. as for using Sakura FRC... it's not as great as it was in #R or Slash in terms of guaranteed damage follow-up. if people don't know how to change their approach against Baiken, then sure, mash on Sakura FRC and get free Dust combos. and what do you mean by "mostly"?

[Villainous]

Well, generally, what counter is good in this game, since the S one got nerfed so much? HS one is good but you don't get much damage out of it, do you? I guess I should look at counters as escape options and not so much combo starters. And yeah I could see the counter that seals running / jumping being really useful vs. certain characters. Imagine Chipp with neither of those options. Or Zappa for that matter.

[rtl42]

H counter (Ouren) is used for generally annoying people, running away and sniping counter hits -> big combo. So, "generally", that's the counter that's good in this game. That said, all the counters have their uses, some of which can be combo starters if you set yourself up correctly, so there isn't a one-size-fits-all counter, if that's what you're thinking. Baku (just 421+D) is great on counter hit, especially on air. Very reminiscent of pre-AC Sakura FRC (imo).

[Zakuta Asura]

Baku is awesome. I don't use it that often because I quite like uber invincibility frames on Sakura...but then again, Youshijin is my most sued counter anyway. I very rarely use Ouren though it's more applicable against certain characters (Eddie being a decent example). If I use Baku, most of the time I opt for the counters, but the free unblockable (gold burst) is just as good. If you want tiers on your counters though... S - H (Ouren) A - D (Baku), P (Youshijin) B - S (Sakura) C - K (Mawarikomi) Of course, personal opinion. Well educated Youshijins are better than Sakuras because 95% of the time, it'll hit. IB -> Youshijin is awesome.

[Hellmonkey]

More like S- Ouren, Baku, Youshijin A- B- C- D- Mawarikomi

[rtl42]

wow, sakura is so bad, it doesn't even show up on hellmonkey's tiers xD

[Hellmonkey]

imo anytime you can sakura now you might as well baku both have full strike invincibility, baku leads to more damage, and has more options, and faster, and safer on block.. it's not even worth punishing moves with it because you can't knock down without tension.. meh.

[Zakuta Asura]

Sakura isn't totally shit, just that now, it's best used to just flip the script. The only position where Sakura is better than Baku is when you only have 25% tension as the reward for connecting is better (Baku only gives you a combo on CH with 25% and even then getting the combo is tricky too (range)).

[Villainous]

So out of curiosity, why is the K counter so bad? Easy to react to and rape? Oh and this isn't related to strategy but, any chance we could get like.. a combo page with all of her bread and butters listed and what not? Would be super useful for new baiken players like myself.

[Zakuta Asura]

It's more or less useless in 90% of situations - most cases you can use Ouren instead. Only to be used against some supers and moves like Dark Angel if you have room to do so without getting fucked over.