[CP] Bullet Gameplay Discussion

[Mr.Minionman]

Haven't posted in the thread much, but that's not to say I'm not very excited to play her still. I'm very appreciative of the Video thread, it's nice not having to sift through the characters I don't care as much about.

I heard mention that Tager can kara cancel his 720 with 2D, I was wondering if anyone knew if Bullet could do something similar with hers? I was thinking maybe with 3C or 2C but I'm not sure exactly how it works out.

[SoWL]

Never heard that about Tager, though it does make sense. You're supposed to churn 720 before the move's active frames, right? I suppose you could try it with 2C, 3C or 5C, but they come out pretty fast, so I'm not surprised no one tries to do it. Don't want the throw to come out after the move for an easy throw break and 50% Heat lost.

[Alpha152]

Here's an explanation of how it worked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4t3vzEJWUM

While the tech was there it was far too impractical/execution level was too high for it to be used by most players. I think if the same is possible with Bullet it won't be very practical. However what is more practical I think, is simply just 720 buffering during her dash.

[AMB Bakery]

I agree with using dash. Just gotta be careful to not accidentally jump~

On the subject of kara-cancel throws, do you think her 5C could be (or is already being, in which case forgive my ignorance) used to kara into normal throw?

[Alpha152]

Sounds possible. Not too many characters in BB can actually kara-throw so it'd be pretty nice if she can.

[Mr.Minionman]

Thanks for the replies, both things I'm going to have to try when I get my hands on the game. and I like the prospect of doing dash-grab :o That's something I loved doing with SF Makoto lol... yeah, I know it's not so practical but it's good to know what options I have available. And random supers are hype anyway.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Mr.Minionman

[AMB Bakery]

Oh god, when those Bullets at AX were trying to do raw Rage Aggressor... orz

I don't think it's so much a random super either. It's a risk, cos there's no other way to do it but raw, but it's got its pros: invuln, frame 0, cancellable from a dash, corner carry. It's a pretty legit super seeing as it's her only true ground command throw (don't count miquelet cos it's combo-able and avoidable by crouching).

To continue speculation, and I could totally be pulling this out of my ass, but iirc there's a way to kara Voltec Charge (i.e., not buffering from the activated move) into 720 (I'm pretty sure Brice was showing this trick to Scottie at NEC last year). Perhaps similarly there's a way to do the same with Afterburner into 720? Strictly speaking, this is just a (possible?) way to pull off a standing 720, though you could just as easily buffer it on wake-up if you know the opponent's going to be on the ground close to you.

[Alpha152]

Yo lol I remember this. Though In Tager's case Voltec Charge was actually cancellable into 720 within a certain amount of frames of Voltec Charge's startup. Unless it's specifically stated with After Burner that shouldn't be possible. Any how, all of these techniques involve spinning the stick like a mad man :V It'll take some adjusting to get used to this lol

[Mr.Minionman]

@Arakune comment in video thread(think you should be posting here to comment on vids):Bullet looks to be a bit better off than Ragna there. Bullet has a few good things like M.Capture and a projectile of her own to get in, and I've noticed Lock-On to be real advantage for chasing down characters that rely on air mobility like Arakune.

Speaking of the videos, that's a real mother load of matches. Lots of players making her look quite strong. Though Tager is looking like a problem match-up. I like that she can abuse Tager's mobility for free afterburners, but she has the typical rushdown's problem on having the get up close and personal with a grappler, which is never a good thing.

[SoWL]

I feel like aerial approach is going to be key against Tager, since his anti-airs are still kinda bad, and the best he can do is jump towards you with j.B or j.360C or something like that. And Bullet beats that all with a good j.D or j.B. 3C is also surprisingly effective against his big pokes, like 5D or 5C, so it won't be hard to condition him against using those. And of course, you can spam Flint Shooter and bait some Sledges.

[Phones01]

Oh god, when those Bullets at AX were trying to do raw Rage Aggressor... orz

I don't think it's so much a random super either. It's a risk, cos there's no other way to do it but raw, but it's got its pros: invuln, frame 0, cancellable from a dash, corner carry. It's a pretty legit super seeing as it's her only true ground command throw (don't count miquelet cos it's combo-able and avoidable by crouching).

To continue speculation, and I could totally be pulling this out of my ass, but iirc there's a way to kara Voltec Charge (i.e., not buffering from the activated move) into 720 (I'm pretty sure Brice was showing this trick to Scottie at NEC last year). Perhaps similarly there's a way to do the same with Afterburner into 720? Strictly speaking, this is just a (possible?) way to pull off a standing 720, though you could just as easily buffer it on wake-up if you know the opponent's going to be on the ground close to you.

I used bullet at AX in the little tourney but I only got at the most 2 hrs in with her and I wasn't sure if rage aggressor had any invulnerability. :/

[Great_Dark_Hero]

Thank you guys for all of the hard work. Bullet is going to be the very first character I pick up for BBCP...

From what I've been seeing overtime, Bullet is quite rush down-heavy and has very pressure from up close. I can see her having a hard time against long range zoners, but this should still be manageable on Bullet's behalf.

I come from KOF - Bullet would be a nice character for me to play as of now...

[AMB Bakery]

Bullet j.C might as well be a jump CD

[Mr.Minionman]

I'm actually interested in playing her for kof comparison too. I initially thought she'd have the dash-command grab thing going for her, but that was debunked when we got move data. Excited about her drive and a few of her other perks despite it, so I'm gonna try to make her stick anyway.

And from what I've seen of her v. Zoner matchups, she has enough tools at her disposal to neutralize the threat to an extent, it's more of her matchup against other rushdowns that bothers me.

And yeah, v. Tager, thats a good point. truth be told I never really thought of him as having weak anti airs, but it makes sense. From several of the matches I've seen though, every time Bullet tries for a pressure reset on the ground she usually loses hard for it. And I have the worse time conditioning grapplers lo >_>

[AMB Bakery]

Would doing flint shooter for oki (v. Tager) be any good or is it completely unsafe? I saw this Bullet player do it against some Tager who kept backdashing onto it even though he had a full second to see the projectile being shot and travelling.

Bullet 3C (like most 3C's) beats so much of his stuff (6A, 5C, 5D, 2D, Sledge) and leads into a decent combo even without heat levels, but it will be easy to get 360'd out of it if you get too happy at certain ranges. As far as wake-up pressure goes, I almost feel like it'd be better just to either backdash a couple times and charge D or do j.D feint to bait anti-airs if you're feeling lucky. Maybe walk back 236[A] might work well just cos it's safe and Tager doesn't seem like he'd do sledge on wake-up vs Bullet.

Just talking out of my ass here though, regardless it'll be kind of dangerous and up close our running away options aren't that good, which means a lot of guesses are going to have to be made. But hey, at least there's probably Tager specific pressure like 2A j.A j.C (all blocked cos lol huge).

[S.F.W]

Would doing flint shooter for oki (v. Tager) be any good or is it completely unsafe? I saw this Bullet player do it against some Tager who kept backdashing onto it even though he had a full second to see the projectile being shot and travelling.

At the right distance, yeah. A regular Flint Shooter at any level seems to be safe. Although a charged Flint Shooter is suicide if don't get the timing down right.

[Solless]

Wow, that pink Bullet from the latest videos just really kept dropping the ball.

[EXonestar]

*Got more ideas for bullet to experiment with....*

[Sadeyo]

I don't know a lick of what some of you guys are saying until after I get my hands on her but share this one idea with me real quick, it may have already been discussed for all I know since it has been months since I last visited this thread on her first appearance.

We're aware of Bullet neutral game being really strong but really poor due to her poor reach. We probably seen enough videos to come to the idea that most of damaging combos don't really require heat/meter but heat stock (whatever her drive may be). You can possibly agree that there's only one to two possible rapid combos to know but they're mainly used to building the heat stock for an extra 600-800 dmg (?). So if this happens to be true why not go all out keeping the momentum in combat and just use the excess heat for counter-assaults? Just irks me seeing Bullet hold that L after suffering in the corner against Valkenhayn or possibly Ragna pressure.

Maybe it will end up being my approach but this thought process can't be entirely wrong.

[AMB Bakery]

The meter use is justified by an advantage in position and threat levels. What scenario would you rather be in? Up close and with H2 level drive, or be in neutral where you have to make an approach again? There's lots of alternatives to use meter on the offensive too:

- Rapid OD after landing a drive move at low health (works at any heat level).

- Rapid combo into snaphance after landing a drive move at H1 or H2.

- OD Rage Aggressor in some meaty combo either by cancelling normals or linking after corner snaphance (or some high hitstun move).

All of these scenarios offer significant additions in unburstable damage.

And you could even contend that one of her good defensive options is reversal 720, if you see someone who's about to land or if you think they won't jump.

Edited October 3, 2013 by AMB Bakery

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Not sure I'd really say Bullet has poor reach. 5B, 2B and JB all have good reach. I think Bullet's only problem at the moment is that opening people up is not trivially easy. We might/probably will see an improvement in this area when the console version drops in a month and people can experiment setups to their heart's content. And if it doesn't, meh, I'm used to it with Labrys by now. Just going to have to rely on those fundamentals.

But yeah, as you suspected, it's really user choice as well as strategic decisions based on how the fight is currently going. Most Bullet players probably think they can weather the storm and get back to neutral. AMB Bakery pretty much sums up some of the other offensive options meter. Though on the topic of doing RC combos to get H2, I'd like to emphasize that obtaining H2 is itself a pretty good reason. When Bullet is in H2, her movement becomes its fastest, making dealing with neutral easier. Doing H2 drive followups boosts her combo damage output while still benefiting from the usual drive followup corner carry perks. It also makes her 5D and JD even more safe on block and because you would still have 1 level of heat left if it gets blocked, it makes throwing them out in a blockstring to extend pressure or trying to catch someone pushing buttons with it in neutral, more justifiable.

Also, this is mostly my own speculation but when you have defensive options like Cutting Shear(623B) and Serpentine Assault(720A), I get the feeling people get into a mindset that it's sort of a waste to spend meter on defense. I could be wrong though

[RurouniLoneWolf]

The latest M Shi vids are pretty good. It's been a pleasure watching his Bullet evolve over the last year or so. Wish we could see more of him and Keita though.

[AMB Bakery]

Even though 0 is easily my favorite Bullet (his Order-Sol experience translates really well to this character), M Shi's is good to watch for a couple of reasons. One is his understanding of higher-level neutral (combining movement and normals) with Bullet, dash 2B in particular being really strong. Second is his コンボ選択, though not necessarily hyper-optimal, he can convert otherwise weak hits into kill combos. I, for one, want to try j.B dj.B j.C xx j.623C~623D for MAXIMUM DUNKING.

[Mr.Minionman]

http://youtu.be/NPsrwF0shEA?t=8m19s

On the subject of good Bullet play (are MC and MShi the same?), I was really impressed by the decision here. MC saw that Hakumen was within the threshold for a kill with one more combo, so he refrained from using the H2 follow to have the biggest possible advantage for those last moments. Had he used the followup when he had the chance (which I'm sure most Bullet's would do) it would still be one more combo, but he would've been fighting at H1, which could have been a fatal difference.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

lol @ Maximum Dunking. Yeah, I really like M Shi neutral. It's pretty on point. Didn't know 0 is an Order Sol player, probably because I haven't really started following GG until now. Can't remember his Bullet since it's been a while since he's showed up. I think I'll dig up some of his matches and watch them again later. With 3 weeks left to CP, it's just about that time to start reanalyzing all the Bullet match videos again.

http://youtu.be/NPsrwF0shEA?t=8m19s

On the subject of good Bullet play (are MC and MShi the same?), I was really impressed by the decision here. MC saw that Hakumen was within the threshold for a kill with one more combo, so he refrained from using the H2 follow to have the biggest possible advantage for those last moments. Had he used the followup when he had the chance (which I'm sure most Bullet's would do) it would still be one more combo, but he would've been fighting at H1, which could have been a fatal difference.

Say MC out loud, then say M Shi out loud and then listen to your heart on whether they're the same, lol. I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure they're the same person. He's one of the only Bullet players who uses the regular Palette #1. That moment you highlighted is indeed a very good example of an interesting decision. I didn't catch that the first time I watched the video.