AC: Advanced Axl Bullshit: Benten.

[Silmerion]

Nah, if you're that near the corner, you can often IAD j.D Bomber or just run and 6H, 5K, 2S, j.D, etc.

Gah! This is true. *Face-palm* Fine, Watches-sama. You win again.

...Not that we've had any prior arguments.

[Rensengeki]

watches is right. the only thing i can think of is if you JI H benten so you can airdash after benten extension but i havnt tried this out because when your that close to the corner im fairly sure you get more dmg from rensen FRC and FB bomber or Kokku frc combos

[Beowulf]

Do you need to RC the bomber extension in JI Benten HS in order to air dash, like in #reload ? I was thinking of using benten S on wake-up pressure against potemkin. But I'm wondering about the FRC. - If he does a backdash reversal, then the benten is likely to whiff right ? So I have to input the FRC just after the 623+S motion. - If he does pot-Buster reversal, then the benten will hit (as it has throw invulnerability) right ? So I have to input the FRC just after the hit ! My question here is : if you use benten s as a reversal, is it best to input the FRC when it whiffs AND the FRC when it hits ? How likely am I to succeed that ? As if it hits, the first attempt to FRC will lead into a normal RC... BTW is it safe against pot ? I mean if he doesn't have the tension for a wall reflector...

[Digital Watches]

Inputting both will never work. The game won't allow you to attempt an FRC more than once per move, meaning if you input 3 buttons at two separate times, the first one will count, the second won't do anything.

[Beowulf]

I see. So if I understood everything correctly, that means : benten S as an oki YES, but with at least 50% of tension and the input of the FRC as if it would whiff. In short, against a potemkin, it's safer not to do this fancy okizeme as there's a high risk of pot buster reversal behind ! On an other note, JI benten HS's Axl bomber needs to be RC in order to do a Air dash behind.

[Digital Watches]

I see. So if I understood everything correctly, that means : benten S as an oki YES, but with at least 50% of tension and the input of the FRC as if it would whiff.

No, you can meaty the move so that the whiff and hit FRC time the same.

In short, against a potemkin, it's safer not to do this fancy okizeme as there's a high risk of pot buster reversal behind !

Eh, if you can jump out quick enough afterwards. Fancy oki is always risky.

On an other note, JI benten HS's Axl bomber needs to be RC in order to do a Air dash behind.

Er... yeah. I thought that was common knowledge...

[Beowulf]

No, you can meaty the move so that the whiff and hit FRC time the same.

Other quote[...]

Er... yeah. I thought that was common knowledge...

I'll try it as a meaty then... But I don't see how the FRC becomes during the hit ?

Is it because the hit comes after the whiffed FRC ? Or is it an other mysterious thing that happens only in Guilty gear ?

Sorry about the air dash stuff, it's just that I found surprising things these days on AC... Guess I should just read the basics once again to refresh my mind ^^

[Adelheid]

I'll try it as a meaty then... But I don't see how the FRC becomes during the hit ?

Is it because the hit comes after the whiffed FRC ? Or is it an other mysterious thing that happens only in Guilty gear ?

The way it works is like this. There's a little bit of a pause on the hit. Because the startup is 5 frames and the FRC is on frames 7 and 8, if you hit, it delays the FRC timing. However, if you time it so that they wake up on your frames 7 or 8, then there's no delay before the frames when you can FRC the move because you've already reached the correct frames. If they wake up into your move before this, though, then it won't work.

[Beowulf]

I see... So, how difficult is it to make it a perfect okizeme, on a scale out of 10 ?

[Digital Watches]

I see... So, how difficult is it to make it a perfect okizeme, on a scale out of 10 ?

Eh, it's character-dependent, since get-up time varies, but not THAT hard, really.

[Beowulf]

Yosh, got a video up to illustrate the Benten S FRC on okizeme and it's use (mostly against super and VV ^^)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgWa8qr9jbc

Sorry for the lack of explanations in the video,I can't really edit them yet.

Still, I'm wondering... R-Ky's 623+HS actually hits low on the first hit ? Or is it me timing the FRC too badly ?

[Digital Watches]

You definitely mistimed the FRC against Robot, since that move does NOT come out in 1 frame. Also, you could have blocked the GV and Gunblaze. I also see that you're showing the next part of the mindgame: In order to be safe from throws (the move IS throw-invincible up to the active frames) you have to give up this perfect meaty. This means you have to be able to do the hit FRC timing. On the bright side, catching a throw attempt means free counterhit. I don't know for sure, but I think you're neutral in the situation where Jam parries, so I think you could have at least broken the throw (Same with the other throws, actually.)

[Beowulf]

Strange for R-Ky... As if I did not make him do his dragon, the benten would have actually hit him with the FRC... On the second frame ?

Of course GV and Gun blaze could be avoided. It's just there to remember that "low reversal" exists, and "cross-up reversal" exists too.

On the bright side, catching a throw attempt means free counterhit.

Not that sure, As if the opponent wishes to catch, he'll do it the guarding way ! (by doing a backward catch) That's what happened with Millia. The first, she got hit. The second she miss timed her catch and guarded, the final, she was right in time...

And how I tested it so far, you don't get a counter hit if it's done on the first active frame. It's a normal hit, in most cases as the hit doesn't come out. I didn't do a "safe okizeme" though. I made it so that Axl is actually at the catch distance (gotta do one more when he's a bit farther).

I think you're neutral in the situation where Jam parries, so I think you could have at least broken the throw

That one's true. Still, if you don't see it comming, you get cached behind...

Same with the other throws, actually.

Not on that one... Millia catches on the the firsts frame of the move, before it gets active... And the purple shining didn't apear on the video... ^^

[Digital Watches]

Strange for R-Ky... As if I did not make him do his dragon, the benten would have actually hit him with the FRC... On the second frame ?

Of course GV and Gun blaze could be avoided. It's just there to remember that "low reversal" exists, and "cross-up reversal" exists too.

Not that sure, As if the opponent wishes to catch, he'll do it the guarding way ! (by doing a backward catch) That's what happened with Millia. The first, she got hit. The second she miss timed her catch and guarded, the final, she was right in time...

And how I tested it so far, you don't get a counter hit if it's done on the first active frame. It's a normal hit, in most cases as the hit doesn't come out. I didn't do a "safe okizeme" though. I made it so that Axl is actually at the catch distance (gotta do one more when he's a bit farther).

I mean if you do the Benten late, you're throw invincible, and option select from throw to normal block can't really be done. Maybe Faultless, but it's better than getting thrown.

That one's true. Still, if you don't see it comming, you get cached behind...

I suppose, but kind of the point of doing a safe reversal is being ready to react.

Not on that one... Millia catches on the the firsts frame of the move, before it gets active... And the purple shining didn't apear on the video... ^^

Er... Benten is throw-invincible through active frames 1 and 2, so that's actually quite impossible.

[Beowulf]

I suppose, but kind of the point of doing a safe reversal is being ready to react.

I just wanted to show what they should react to...

For Millia catching, I noticed on the video that :

1) We can see the begining animations of the circle around Axl when thrown.

2) No purple circle around to be found to uncatch it.

And, if she doesn't catch, it does hit her.

That's all, I don't know if the timing is wrong. I did a "replay" action once I made it successfully.

[Ross]

Yosh, got a video up to illustrate the Benten S FRC on okizeme and it's use (mostly against super and VV ^^)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgWa8qr9jbc

Sorry for the lack of explanations in the video,I can't really edit them yet.

Still, I'm wondering... R-Ky's 623+HS actually hits low on the first hit ? Or is it me timing the FRC too badly ?

example against slayer is lols... you could also just do meaty cr.k and have the same exact effect. Also what if slayer bdc bites? Also what if I do DOT can you block in time or do you get frozen out thanks to the freeze on that move? TRY IT.

[Beowulf]

Also what if slayer bdc bites ? -> If Axl doesn't move his ass away from him, he gets bitten very badly. He can still jump away or back dash after the FRC though. So If the Axl awaits the bite, He can escape safely. Sorry if I didn't do bdc for slayer (actualy I wanated, really...) but I can't do it myself and I don't know anybody near me who could do it... Also what if I do DOT can you block in time or do you get frozen out thanks to the freeze on that move? -> Actually, if Axl doesn't hit on the FRC, he can immediately block. That's clearly what you can see against the VV. But DOT on reversal ? Man, I know it's a nice move and all, but it's only invincible at the 7th frame. You would get hit by the beten before the screen even starts to freeze, as it is timed to hit on the first active frame.

[Ross]

Also what if slayer bdc bites ?

-> If Axl doesn't move his ass away from him, he gets bitten very badly. He can still jump away or back dash after the FRC though. So If the Axl awaits the bite, He can escape safely. Sorry if I didn't do bdc for slayer (actualy I wanated, really...) but I can't do it myself and I don't know anybody near me who could do it...

Also what if I do DOT can you block in time or do you get frozen out thanks to the freeze on that move?

-> Actually, if Axl doesn't hit on the FRC, he can immediately block. That's clearly what you can see against the VV. But DOT on reversal ? Man, I know it's a nice move and all, but it's only invincible at the 7th frame. You would get hit by the beten before the screen even starts to freeze, as it is timed to hit on the first active frame.

Yeah I figured that would happen with the DOT. Still your slayer reversal idea was funny, if anythign axl could do that, see slayer dandy back and punish.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah I figured that would happen with the DOT. Still your slayer reversal idea was funny, if anythign axl could do that, see slayer dandy back and punish.

This.

[Beowulf]

Well, the move is not perfect. A simple reversal back dash can avoid it, not only potemkin can do that. It's just that I have troubles playing AND recording at the same time, otherwise I would at least have done a backdash for Slayer too... But you know what would have been funny ? Doing an FRC after the dandy step ^^ EDIT : I hate your "this" ! I don't get them !

[GerVer]

mhp, i dont mess with that benten S frc meaty, i find it hard to pull and well theres free stuff that can have the same effect. I really hate that move. Stupid RCs, makes its useless when getting up. Cant be used as a safe wake up.

[Digital Watches]

mhp, i dont mess with that benten S frc meaty, i find it hard to pull and well theres free stuff that can have the same effect. I really hate that move. Stupid RCs, makes its useless when getting up. Cant be used as a safe wake up.

Er... do you understand what it is though? It's a free test for invincible moves which, if done right, can allow you to block in one frame after it would have hit, meaning you get to block any reversal in the game. I really don't see the downside, nor do I see how Axl has other meaties that can do that to, for example, VV.

[GerVer]

Er... do you understand what it is though? It's a free test for invincible moves which, if done right, can allow you to block in one frame after it would have hit, meaning you get to block any reversal in the game. I really don't see the downside, nor do I see how Axl has other meaties that can do that to, for example, VV.

... j. HS? 2D frc? last ones even better than the Benten stuff.They are barless and offers the same options, except for the throw attempt part. Most out of a benten S trick, u can get a CH, if the oppenent whent for a throw, and thats is well... a waste of bar. Might as well take the risks and dont frc, get the CH and then combo. at leat its what i think.

And i now what u mean.

EDIT. yeah i mean 2H not 2D BAKA ME! 2H aint barless...

[Beowulf]

you mean 2+HS right ? It gets beaten by VV if done as a meaty. And it gets blocked really easilly, so it definitively IS a waste of tension here... j.HS is eaten by VV too, if not counter hit, the recovery is too long...

[GerVer]

you mean 2+HS right ? It gets beaten by VV if done as a meaty. And it gets blocked really easilly, so it definitively IS a waste of tension here...

j.HS is eaten by VV too, if not counter hit, the recovery is too long...

... Eh, they dont. How its 2H gonna get eaten if u frc it? I get them meaty if blocked or else. if VV i can block. even if TR. As with Pots J.S, Axls j.H works the same. U probably dont understand me, cause i cant beleive u dont know that. Yep that must be.:(sorry cause my english and typing sucks:vbang:

And, well, the idea is it gets either blocked or bait out the reversal. Thats the idea behind it, as least for me, cause i dont get at throw range for opponet to try wake up throw unless hes retarded, hell know his only option is to block. so im not looking for CH with those options.