White Man Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 You know, while I generally agree with this statement, Project M makes a very strong case for its existence. Modding is certainly fine in special instances (i.e. Doom) where the developers decide to make the source code openly available for people to tinker with, though. Project M is something of a unique case in that it's a bunch of people taking a game that wasn't built to be played competitively and revamping it so it can be played competitively. Granted, a lot of the new stuff they've added recently wanders into a gray area. When they started implementing things like alt costumes, new modes, new characters, etc, they essentially stopped "fixing" Brawl and began developing their own game... But I digress from my point. I personally don't see any problem with mods as such—except in cases where they allow cheating—but they do present an issue inside a community that demands product uniformity. People who play fighters want to make certain they're all playing the exact same version of a game, to the extent that genre fans often insist on arcade perfect home ports even when that means leaving glitches and exploits intact. A mod scene opens the door to a landscape of slightly different versions of a game being adopted by different communities, which is a nightmare scenario for fans of any game where precise mechanical consistency is vital for high-level play. Keeping a game on consoles is an easy way to ensure everyone is playing the same game, that being the official version as it was intended to be played by the people who created it. That by itself might not be a strong enough argument to keep a title from being released on other platforms, but it is one benefit of maintaining console exclusivity.
Mumm-Ra Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I just realized how ridiculous Baiken would be with yrc. You're pressuring her then BAM Sakura>yrc>low or Ouren>yrc>instant overhead or whatever, you wouldn't even KNOW.
Calamitus Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I really wouldn't want to see Xrd defiled with stupid mods on PC. I think the reason why MvC3 never made it off the consoles is because Marvel was worried about mods getting out of hand. But the biggest reason I don't want to see Xrd on PC is because it would be too big of an investment for ArcSys with too little payoff, even with the easy portability of UE3. The vocal nature of people begging online for PC ports of every new fighting game doesn't mean that they would actually buy these releases in significant enough numbers to recoup development and publishing costs. Marvel was worried about mods... That's just funny. Marvel cares only about their copyrights and licensing. PC game =/= always moddable. It's not hard for developer to make game absolutely unmoddable. I heard enough whining about piracy, but blaming mods is the most stupidiest idea ever. I dont think Xrd needs any mods though (i dont remember about any mods for Isuka). Huh, i guess Capcom, SNK Playmore, NetherRealm studios and Lab Zero are philanthropists then. PC market grows bigger and bigger, smart companies already can see the rich fields to insvest in, while others continue to live with stereotypical thinking about "piracy and other s***". No wonder, Xrd is developed by a small team just because they are getting little payoff from the console market. Moderators should clean this thread from useless rant about mods.
Blade Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 The argument against Mods would only be valid if it pertained to impacting normal gameplay such as console or online play or competitive tournaments on a consistent basis. For example, Soul Calibur V character mods via a Hex Edit. Namco never fixed that part of their save files, so people found a back door. I've tinkered with it myself but to my knowledge the worst you could do with it is disguise a character with another character's fighting style (ala Mokujin/Edge Master) or make them ugly as heck. Since character creation is frowned upon already in that game (due to clothing hiding hitboxes and such), I don't think people would care so much about the actual mod other than Namco having to fix the exploit (which again, they still haven't). I don't think that will be a problem with Guilty Gear because: 1. Rules (aka dipswitches) with special modes like Gold Mode or EX Mode are deeply integrated in to the game. So it's easy to ban them in-game based on how you set up a Lobby Room online for example. Even stuff like the Extra Menu in Accent Core Plus R automatically "resets to default rules" if you pick a competitive mode that isn't Versus or Training, so it's like a failsafe. 2. Alternate costumes haven't even been determined yet so I doubt we'll see much in the way of that for a while (though they might still get palette problems like early versions of BlazBlue Continuum Shift did, that's to be expected with each patch fix). I'll wait and see if guys like APCGIV (aka Asian guy who does those mod videos of GG and BB) try to mod GGXrd on PC, if they do it's just for fun, nothing serious like EVER... and they never explain how it's done either so... we might never know. On that note, the worst "Guilty Gear Exploits" I have ever seen was in the first Guilty Gear with Gameshark codes that basically made all your hitboxes uber huge so you could hit enemies anywhere on screen (though I don't think Popstation could replicate those codes lol) . That and the super-cancel/every hit is an IK state/flawless guard codes on the PSP version of Accent Core Plus (which needs a modded PSP to be used and sometimes crashes anyway).
Soviet Bear Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 The people complaining about mods and piracy in this thread seem to use the PC only for browsing the Internet. Piracy exists on consoles as well (not as much as on PC though). Mods exist, but games that have competitive elements are usually smart about it and let you only use them for non-ranked stuff. If mods = competitive assassination then Dota2, LoL and Counter-Strike would be as competitive as a Bejeweled game on a mobile phone. There's enough reason to put Xrd on PC from a financial point of view. Ed Boon was going on about how they were blown away with how well the MK9 port did and then promptly ported Injustice as well. MKX is now PC from the get-go. BlazBlue CT for PC (the Steam version), which was stripped of online MP and which was outdated since CP was already out ended up in the Steam Top 10 sellers the day it was released. The same Steam that's responsible for the vast majority of PC sales. Skullgirls reaches the top sellers whenever it's on sale. KoF13 also does well when on sale. Now that they use the Unreal engine of all things, there is nothing to lose by porting over Xrd. The only way it would do badly were if it they did a piss-poor job of porting the game. Piracy would exist, but really, piracy exists for everything. The most pirated games are the ones that sell the most and it's from people who would have never bought your game in the first place. These people exist on PS3 and Xbox360 as well. Seriously, the people against it here sound like Harada, who said not porting Tekken on PC was because he thinks the PC doesn't like fighting games. I'm guessing it's just Japanese developers being conservative. Netherrealm took the opportunity and capitalized on it, I don't see why ASW wouldn't. I'm trying to stay ontopic here because I'm commenting on the news about Xrd about a potential PC port and why it would be good. I don't really want to debate the philosophical qualities of mods beyond how it would affect Xrd's competitive scene.
Dogphone Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 You know, while I generally agree with this statement, Project M makes a very strong case for its existence. Modding is certainly fine in special instances (i.e. Doom) where the developers decide to make the source code openly available for people to tinker with, though. I really wouldn't want to see Xrd defiled with stupid mods on PC. I think the reason why MvC3 never made it off the consoles is because Marvel was worried about mods getting out of hand. But the biggest reason I don't want to see Xrd on PC is because it would be too big of an investment for ArcSys with too little payoff, even with the easy portability of UE3. The vocal nature of people begging online for PC ports of every new fighting game doesn't mean that they would actually buy these releases in significant enough numbers to recoup development and publishing costs. Where did you get the idea that MvC3 didn't hit PC because Marvel supposedly had that much of a problem with mods? If this was even remotely true, I have a hard time wondering why Marvel Heroes or any of those other Marvel games that were pulled off digital platforms some time back were on Steam in the first place (besides, people are already modding UMvC3 so even if this was a factor it would've been for naught). Marvel would probably sooner ensure their toilet paper are rolls of 100 dollar bills or higher than care for whatever the hell the consumers do with their games lol. The people complaining about mods and piracy in this thread seem to use the PC only for browsing the Internet. Piracy exists on consoles as well (not as much as on PC though). Mods exist, but games that have competitive elements are usually smart about it and let you only use them for non-ranked stuff. If mods = competitive assassination then Dota2, LoL and Counter-Strike would be as competitive as a Bejeweled game on a mobile phone. There's enough reason to put Xrd on PC from a financial point of view. Ed Boon was going on about how they were blown away with how well the MK9 port did and then promptly ported Injustice as well. MKX is now PC from the get-go. BlazBlue CT for PC (the Steam version), which was stripped of online MP and which was outdated since CP was already out ended up in the Steam Top 10 sellers the day it was released. The same Steam that's responsible for the vast majority of PC sales. Skullgirls reaches the top sellers whenever it's on sale. KoF13 also does well when on sale. Now that they use the Unreal engine of all things, there is nothing to lose by porting over Xrd. The only way it would do badly were if it they did a piss-poor job of porting the game. Piracy would exist, but really, piracy exists for everything. The most pirated games are the ones that sell the most and it's from people who would have never bought your game in the first place. These people exist on PS3 and Xbox360 as well. Seriously, the people against it here sound like Harada, who said not porting Tekken on PC was because he thinks the PC doesn't like fighting games. I'm guessing it's just Japanese developers being conservative. Netherrealm took the opportunity and capitalized on it, I don't see why ASW wouldn't. I'm trying to stay ontopic here because I'm commenting on the news about Xrd about a potential PC port and why it would be good. I don't really want to debate the philosophical qualities of mods beyond how it would affect Xrd's competitive scene. I wanted to Like this post then Unlike it so I could Like it again, but then I realized you can't do that On the whole I agree. And while I don't think the issue of piracy on PC should be downplayed, the situation certainly isn't as dire or hopeless as some would have you believe. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing any success let alone continued support on the platform, and the concept of Steam would have collapsed eons ago. But all this anti-mod talk like it's even an issue is straight up fear mongering imho.
king of heart Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 So king are you gonna watch arc revo? Tickets are sold out but I heard that there is a free space so i will try to attend as early as possible. I am interested in the tournament and the stuff they are selling there especially the IC cards cover.
D.R.F. Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Tickets are sold out but I heard that there is a free space so i will try to attend as early as possible. I am interested in the tournament and the stuff they are selling there especially the IC cards cover. Aww okay bummer. But yea get on that struggle space haha! But what do you mean by I.C. cards?
supermancampus Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Not sure if this means anything but... I've been checking Best Buy to see when they would have XRD available since I have a gift card and noticed that now they have XRD listed with a date of 9/30/2014. Probably just a placeholder but it seems a lot more specific than both Gamestop and Amazon's listing. One can only hope
D.R.F. Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I doubt it. Dec 4 Is the official release for jp, but hey you never know
Soviet Bear Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 ASW NA still hasn't moved away from its "Fall" release window, despite the Dec 4 JP release date being known for quite a while. I'm not expecting us to get the game before Japan, but it is a bit odd.
D.R.F. Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 ASW NA still hasn't moved away from its "Fall" release window, despite the Dec 4 JP release date being known for quite a while. I'm not expecting us to get the game before Japan, but it is a bit odd. Yep. Dont want to jinx anything but would be exciting
supermancampus Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Might be a bit off topic, but, I'm moving cross country and literally will be creating a new gaming setup. I was curious, when you guys play Guilty Gear, do you game on TV's, monitors, projectors? Trying to see what the community has a preference towards. Thanks.
Blade Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I don't think it matters, so long as you have an interface for Joysticks and pads so people can bring their own.
Soviet Bear Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Might be a bit off topic, but, I'm moving cross country and literally will be creating a new gaming setup. I was curious, when you guys play Guilty Gear, do you game on TV's, monitors, projectors? Trying to see what the community has a preference towards. Thanks. I think it doesn't matter as long as there's no input lag. I've had tournaments where there was both input lag on TVs and projectors, but it's on a case by case basis. I don't recall ever encountering the issue on a PC monitor though.
D.R.F. Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I play on a pc monitor, I personally think its fine. Arent SD stuff less lag? (just asking)
9:02 PM Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Might be a bit off topic, but, I'm moving cross country and literally will be creating a new gaming setup. I was curious, when you guys play Guilty Gear, do you game on TV's, monitors, projectors? Trying to see what the community has a preference towards. Thanks. Monitors are definitely the standard, and are what you should practice on if you want to compete. Old school CRT TVs technically have the least amount of lag just because of their design, but they present other problems like degradation of picture quality, and an inability to display using HDMI. There are plenty of relatively affordable monitor models out there that have an unnoticably small amount of display lag; I believe there's a sticky on SRK tech talk about it. ASUS and BenQ are the two big gaming monitor brands now. I don't have much experience playing fighting games on projectors, but I would assume they're really laggy.
supermancampus Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Thanks for the feedback everyone, definitely pointed me in the right direction
N8 DMN Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 I always play on crt, coming from a 3rd strike background where it is absolutely necessary. I play vs my friends on crt at my place, and the timing feels perfect, only downside is when I went to a GGAC/+R tourney it is always on lcd screens and the timg feels a lil different. Its not as bad as GG as w 3S but it messes me up
ElvenShadow Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Tickets are sold out but I heard that there is a free space so i will try to attend as early as possible. I am interested in the tournament and the stuff they are selling there especially the IC cards cover. Yea pretty much same with me. I wasn't able to get a ticket cuz I slacked off on buying it and it was sold out when I tried. I will also try for the free space. Hopefully it isn't totally crappy or doesn't fill up and they turn me away.
Destin Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Blade, could you give me the contact info of the guy you know who was doing mods on these games? Thanks!
ElvenShadow Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Damn how many spots were there? 32, if you mean spots in the final tournament. If you are talking about seats, I dunno
D.R.F. Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 32, if you mean spots in the final tournament. If you are talking about seats, I dunno Ahh okay. Thanks
mynus Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Might be a bit off topic, but, I'm moving cross country and literally will be creating a new gaming setup. I was curious, when you guys play Guilty Gear, do you game on TV's, monitors, projectors? Trying to see what the community has a preference towards. Thanks. Database for best/worst monitors/TV's [including 4K & larger models] for gaming: displaylag.com Database for best gaming monitors (ex ASUS, BenQ): http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/145141/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database Database for best/worst input lag tests results for common fightsticks: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/191312/how-much-does-your-arcade-stick-lag-arcade-stick-input-lag-testing-results-thread -Everything you need to know/get you started. If you're going to start over, might as well do it right.
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