AC: General Discussion

[Effenhoog]

I noticed that none of the matches I've watched lately have used the FB bubble at all, not even once. Did this move somehow become obsolete recently? Or did Dizzy tactics for AC just evolve away from relying on it (I've seen her win a lot more recently as well O_O )? It was always always my understanding that the FB was a really good move with a really huge hitbox and quite helpful in playing the run-away game required by Dizzy's lowered defense.

[Leblackdragon]

Ok ,sign me up again... Dizzy looks like she got some deserved play testing attention this time.

[CrimsonDisaster]

People keep randomly eating j2S or fish re-attack. I DUNNO WHY.

[DrgnEclair]

unblockable

[Mike Z]

I don't play Dizzy, but I was asked by a friend to check this in AC, so...now that her 2D is jumpcancellable, you can special-cancel it by jumpcancelling into the special - so 2D, 2369H for Icespike. I'm not sure how useful this is (it's used all the time for Slayer's 5k) but you can... Also she can do 5H->2h, which is cool to me at least. Mike Z

[CrimsonDisaster]

I don't play Dizzy, but I was asked by a friend to check this in AC, so...now that her 2D is jumpcancellable, you can special-cancel it by jumpcancelling into the special - so 2D, 2369H for Icespike. I'm not sure how useful this is (it's used all the time for Slayer's 5k) but you can...

Also she can do 5H->2h, which is cool to me at least.

Mike Z

2D JC special cancel is old news lol. But yeah it's nice having it, since it means she can do 2K > 2D XX icespike at ranges where she can't do 2K > c.S > H XX icespike... still hurts that the range on her 2D is back to XX style =/

5H > 2H would be awesome if it had a bit more range... though I guess she can do point blank dash K > H > 2H into combo. Or H > whiff 2H FRC for weird antics.

[stinkymonz]

I'm thinking it's just replacement ground combo stuff for those of us who used to do c.S 6P blah into 2HS/spike/2D. Since 6P wall-bounces now, the ranges you'd do c.S 6P can now be replaced by the much better and bigger damage c.S 5HS 2HS blah blah. Good change on both counts.

[Ice Prince]

Dizzy looks so fun still. I just MIGHT have to pick her up for a secondary if I decide to pick one up. Geez, IP on the Dizzy bandwagon....who'd have thunk that. :razz:

[Necrosis]

Dizzy bandwagon? There is such a thing? Last I checked she was generally considered bottom for the last two games. ;_;

[Ice Prince]

LOL, oh yes I know. I figured I'd hop on since there was an abundance of seats open.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Slash Dizzy wasn't too bad. AC Dizzy is horrid. lol at random people who don't play GG trying to tell me otherwise on SRK, but they're nowhere to be seen now that the Japanese tier list is up D: Dizzy is incredibly boring to me in AC. She was interesting in Slash 'cuz she got worse due to SLIGHTLY weaker options but she got more options. AC, she didn't gain any significant options and a lot of her good ones got worse. I mean if you like to iad2S all the time or something... >.>

[chun_li1]

Slash Dizzy wasn't too bad. AC Dizzy is horrid. lol at random people who don't play GG trying to tell me otherwise on SRK, but they're nowhere to be seen now that the Japanese tier list is up D:

Dizzy is incredibly boring to me in AC. She was interesting in Slash 'cuz she got worse due to SLIGHTLY weaker options but she got more options. AC, she didn't gain any significant options and a lot of her good ones got worse. I mean if you like to iad2S all the time or something... >.>

I totally do not agree with this. IMO, AC Dizzy seems to be the best version. Slash dizzy has left me with bad aftertaste of beta, trial version Dizzy > incomplete character or experimental redesign.

For this, ARC (or Sega for being the money whores they are) is too blame. Friend of mine got the scoop during his participation in last SBO, that AC was well into development, when Sega decided to just milk the series some more. Seems to me ARC went ahead and only used some of their new ideas for Dizzy, and keeping the good stuff for AC. Or just doing a sloppy job, who knows ...

I feel Slash Dizzy is very incomplete. I have been begging for certain changes to be done on Dizzy since #R already (easier Necro grab input, longer fish rushes, imrpoved 6P, better air normal to hit crouch opponents, cross up air normal, etc.).

And what this about not gaining significant options and a lot of her good ones got worse? O.o

- Just wait until the you get to see all the new tricks w/ the air 2S on wake up opponents. Alone the fact that air 2S hits crouch opponents, screams for good old fashioned high, low okis again (I hate the current mid screen front - cross up oki w/ laser, everybody uses in Slash, that shit is dumb, 101% easy to escape if opponent knows "the trick" )

And no, I dont think her Air 2S is only good in random IADs or stuff. The hitbox is sexy, and makes for a good tool to pop bubbles.

- Fish rushes getting extended is god send for my play style. I use a lot of "Eddie Style" rushes w/ bite fishies. Only thing that annoyed me was, bite rush is over fast and the gaps between every bite was too small. Really a pain to get good pressure out of it.

- FB Bubble i cant say anything yet. Havnt seen a good application. I do have a idea for a good application though.

> eg. there are lots of situation where you end your IAD string w/ HS + bubble (so as not to get thrown on ground once land). So instead do FB bubble instead of normal and you should be able to do a high/low mix up before you land.

This wouldnt work w/ the normal bubble (poor range), but her FB might do it. Hitting that bubble during downfall and still be able to move w/ IAD after, now thats what we´d have to find out.

Ah well, looking forward to having fun w/ AC Dizzy. And good riddance to Slash Dizzy.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Have you even played AC yet? Probably not. Well I've been messing around with Dizzy more lately and here's the lowdown on "extended fish rushes"- -214P/K/S/H~additional input. You must input the extra attack during Dizzy's recovery from the initial summon (best to just tap during the initial command, really). It's not hard but you have to think ahead. - first off- the extensions pretty much have about half the startup time of a regular fish summon (we're talking like 21-30+ frames, depending on which extension) and you only get to do one extension. - secondly- no fish attacks increase guardbar. PERIOD. - P fish bites twice. Extending with K gives you a crappy version of the old P fish. - K fish bites ONCE without adding an extension. EXTENDED RUSHDOWN FOR LIFE. It's quite possibly the worst starter fish out of the bunch except P fish can whiff the first bite in some setups. - both lazer fish take like a year to come out (77F startup, ~44F as extension)- and the fish will go out of there way to try to fly in front of Dizzy before lazering if they are used as extensions. Honestly the best fish patterns seem to be S/H -> P/K, or P -> P/K for general purpose pressure. I'm sure with some creativity and a ton of tension, you could create some weird strings with the huge delay in between fish attacks, but keep in mind that the fish can NOT be summoned for a good while after the fish disappears, NOT after it was summoned in the first place- so fish extensions actually increase the delay before you can re-summon a fish, which hurts most of Dizzy's old trap sequences. For reference, after a fish gets hit, you can't summon a new fish for 106F. That's a good 1.5 seconds. As for Slash Dizzy H fish, crossup antics... you can make it crossup/not crossup based on about a few pixel's worth of movement + initial jump direction + airdash timing, and on top of that you can do late double-airdash/land mixup from either direction. All for a BASIC setup (throw, H fish) which can easily be extended with other moves. She had plenty of stuff off that setup and j2S just adds another crossup, really. So she gained ONE new crossup at midscreen (since j2S is redundant in high/low trickery at midscreen since late airdashes let you connect with her other moves) and in return, her corner lazer setups are weaker. On j2S- frame data wise, it's "fast" at 7F startup, except it hits BEHIND her for the first 3 active frames, then below her for 3 frames, then finally in front of her for 3 frames. That's why it's so good in crossups, air-to-ground, and combos, but it's hardly spectacular for much more than that. It gives her another move that does the same thing her other moves do. On FB bubble- unless you're right on top of them (like literally), the FB bubble will fly out of range for most of your moves REALLY FAST. Sometimes you can jS the bubble, which is okay for blowing up half the screen but all that really accomplishes is inconsistently preventing run-ins. Honestly most times I use it, it's to make my opponent scared, more than an actual application in pressure or defense or whatnot (since regular bubbles do that job fine and you can control where they will be). Plus most of the things you were "asking" for in Dizzy are just ways to make her scrubbier, IMHO. Slash Dizzy was fairly "complete" in the sense that she fit her character archetype really well, allowed for a lot of variety between players, and her moves fit together well. Slash Dizzy was interesting, and no two Dizzy players that I played in Tokyo played alike. She was worse than she was in #R for sure, but that's 'cuz she was borderline top-tier in #R, not because she's horrible in Slash.

[Nehle]

Dizzy IK: Worthless as hell it would seem, but still pretty cool.

http://cgi.www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~k1102tennsi/ggxxfile/cgi/dlcount.cgi?url=ggxxfile/tikara.zip;name=tikara

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79QmN0ZMyhE

[Hideki]

How useless and horrible looking... It could be so great with a few hits after the dragon transformation, and a cool hit for finishing the IK... I really don´t like it.

[stinkymonz]

What's the command? And does she have an IK mode?

[Nehle]

What's the command? And does she have an IK mode?

No IK mode, the input is 2 (charge) 8462 H+P

The reason they do the respect is so she won't jump away while they're doing the input

[CrimsonDisaster]

hahaha all the random dudes asking for Dizzy to get an IK and when she finally does, it's even more worthless than a standard IK.

[Hideki]

Hows the IK named?

[Jet Set Dizzy]

K fish bites ONCE.

eh?

nooooooooooo. my poor k fish

[fatewalker]

what a worthless IK..... i don't think Dizzys changes in AC are bad at all. -the fish rush down have a little more options now. i agree the the best ones are probly P/K P/P or K/P. personally i think k/P is better then the old K Fish since you get 3 bites instead of 2 and you still can rush safely from full screen. and P/P with 4 bites!! come on how cant you love that. i've seen a lot of players still use the HS fish for throw crossovers. i can't tell if you hve to tag with 2K first to make it safe but it still seems to work. -j.2S honestly is a really good tool. being able to rushs like ad.2S, air dash, ad.2S, ad.HS.... is too good. plus it seems like a good tool to hit some one whos rightunder you with. -6P wall bouncing is so god damn sweet!! ad.2S, ad.HS, land, c.S, 6P, Arrow!!!! that is death! -the only use isee with the howing bubble is from full screen with and Arrow and the screen freeze on Iperial Ray. other then that...... -and i guess there is one good thing to Dizzy's IK.... she wont lose her tension bar? ......

[stinkymonz]

They certainly made sure there was no way you could do it by accident, at least.

[Ice Prince]

^ This is true. Though I believe I saw a vid of her getting IKed while trying to IK.....that's just comical.

[Cyringohn]

^ This is true. Though I believe I saw a vid of her getting IKed while trying to IK.....that's just comical.

Ky can enter Instant Kill Mode and initiate the Instant Kill before Dizzy's attack even finishes.

[4r5]

no body wins a race to IK against Ky