[CP] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[TR Manny Manito]

xx > 236B > 5C > 236C > RC > 4D > forward jump > (when your character is behind the other character, still in the air) 236D > (land) 22B

 

From there you can do (assuming right corner):

2B for right low

TAP left and then 2B for left low

Jump j2c for right high

Left jump j2c for left high

Throw

Thanks a lot! Ill practice now and keep learning the matchup after that beat up BananaKen gave last tournament in PR lol

[someonewhodied]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSI0ye3AdUs

 

New blackhole setup.

 

Catches rolls. Catches nontech. DP safe, against azrael you can 3C and it will hit before fireball to make it growler safe.

 

 

Does not beat:

Bang guardpoint teleports or Daifunka, Terumi dash super, platinum pogo>dash, noel 6D>214D, Jin/hakumen yuki, Rachel Windtech

 

you can adjust it for them but it won't beat them as it is right now.

 

(ok you can't adjust to terumi dash super or bang daifunka)

[Pen_Ninja]

At work ATM so I can't test this myself but I feel like if you don't tech, the fireball is going to blue-beat out of the combo and then continue to carry you into the black hole, making the entire thing one big combo and ruining the post-BH damage...

 

Aside from that, it's really good... it just doesn't account for the late/no tech

[someonewhodied]

At work ATM so I can't test this myself but I feel like if you don't tech, the fireball is going to blue-beat out of the combo and then continue to carry you into the black hole, making the entire thing one big combo and ruining the post-BH damage...

 

Aside from that, it's really good... it just doesn't account for the late/no tech

 

Oops, you are right. 

If you delay the 6D a little bit it will still catch forward rolls into blockstun instead of making the fireball hit (BH pull is enough to then unblockable them in blockstun). Then it will also catch nontech.

 

 

Its a shame you still barely get shit if you go fireball into blackhole though.

[someonewhodied]

So you can use the old corner combos off of 236A

 

as LONG as a fireball hits between the "launch" and the explosion of 236A. This will raise your opponent just enough to combo 236A

 

ex: lightning oki>5B>lightning activate>214A>6B(1)/3C>236A>(fireball hits)>5A>5C>2C>6C>dj.C>j.D>j.C>j.236D>66B>236B>5C>22B

[Kurushii]

CP2.0 thread is created, please post all CP2.0 related discussion over there: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9581-cp2-kokonoe-gameplay-discussion-discuss-videoscombosquestionsetc/

I'll leave this one alive for now until it becomes inactive for more than a month.

[darklightjg1]

Any advice on the Mu 12 matchup? I'm not really familiar with a lot of matchups in this game and I just kind of act based on the way the player is playing for the most part, but this one gets to be a bit of a problem more than I'd like, so I figured I'd ask. Specifically how to approach her as she seems to out-range me a lot and my projectiles dissipate when I get touched but not all of hers do apparently (caught by lasers while I'm in the middle of comboing her).

I saw some Tetsuwo vs "the world" vids playing against her to gain a little insight, but there's some differences in playstyle and some things he knows that I definitely don't yet. 

 

Some things I tried at last week's session and previous weeks, but was ultimately unsuccessful:

 

- Try to teleport in-between her strings and punish

- Try to instant block the strings and punish (this gets me hit more than I'd like from accidental backdashes)

- Graviton -> Fireball/teleport to get near her

- 22B traps always helps, but they don't win the match

 

Some things I haven't tried yet, but practiced/noticed recently:

 

-Low profiling her j. 2C with either my 2B, or 3C. I know 6A beats it cleanly too, but I don't always see it coming, so I figure I can use those when I need slightly more time to react or from crouch-blocking.

-Barrier to push myself out during her string, and if she cancels into a special at the end, it misses and I can whiff punish.

-3C to counter her 236A (or just airdash over it as it has way more recovery than I thought).

-I noticed last week that her lasers aren't really doing any chip damage outside of OD (correct me if I'm wrong)

-Graviton -> Activate to push her away from her own steins then chase her down.

-Black hole to catch stein spam in the air (duh... why didn't I try this earlier)?

 

Those are the things I'm going to try out this week, but any additional or more in-depth insight would be helpful.

[Pen_Ninja]

This definitely better fits the Mu matchup thread but since I play against Mu a lot, here's some comments at least on what you've said already...

 

 

... a lot and my projectiles dissipate when I get touched but not all of hers do apparently... - 236D will stay out even if you hit Mu. Throw her if you see this one coming and you should invuln through the laser unless steins are oddly far apart

 

Some things I tried at last week's session and previous weeks, but was ultimately unsuccessful:

 

- Try to teleport in-between her strings and punish - 5C > 6C can be punished if you teleport between them. Get a read on when they like to do that string though as the teleport can be baited

- Try to instant block the strings and punish (this gets me hit more than I'd like from accidental backdashes) - IB-ing Mu normals doesn't do a whole lot as most strings leave her either much too far to punish or with 3C > IAD backwards... it builds meter though.

- Graviton -> Fireball/teleport to get near her - This isn't too bad but you need to keep in mind where steins are... since your fireball goes away if you block, you need to make sure you dodge a laser if the situation comes up

- 22B traps always helps, but they don't win the match - Yes, using one of your best neutral tools is good.

 

Some things I haven't tried yet, but practiced/noticed recently:

 

-Low profiling her j. 2C with either my 2B, or 3C. I know 6A beats it cleanly too, but I don't always see it coming, so I figure I can use those when I need slightly more time to react or from crouch-blocking. - Don't bother... that thing'll hit all the way to the ground unless he does it wrong... 6A FTW.

-Barrier to push myself out during her string, and if she cancels into a special at the end, it misses and I can whiff punish. - Not really worth it... you're probably thinking 6C > stein > 63214C (SoD)... she can make SoD hit or whiff but still be somewhat safe because of the laser. You just have to respect this and use it to reset to neutral really.

-3C to counter her 236A (or just airdash over it as it has way more recovery than I thought). - It can be tricky to punish with air dash. 3C may do it for you... I know Litchi 6B and 2B tend to get hit out though.

-I noticed last week that her lasers aren't really doing any chip damage outside of OD (correct me if I'm wrong) - Normal lasers don't do chip. I think the charged ones do.

-Graviton -> Activate to push her away from her own steins then chase her down. - You don't really want to move her any further away from you in most cases... she doesn't really need to be near her steins for them to do things.

-Black hole to catch stein spam in the air (duh... why didn't I try this earlier)? - But that's so riiiisky... Also, steins are jump cancellable sooo...

 

Those are the things I'm going to try out this week, but any additional or more in-depth insight would be helpful.

[Myoro]

My friend is learning Koko and needs a video with applicable Bnbs. Would any of y'all be willing to help me (and him) out?

[Iron Savior]

My friend is learning Koko and needs a video with applicable Bnbs. Would any of y'all be willing to help me (and him) out?

I think i posted these a LONG time ago, but they should still work

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Here are the ones i use

First of all, 2c(also 6c) is your best normal combo-wise, it has the best follow ups, you can go into 2c if your opponent is crouching, and on CH on most b and c normals, and after 22b hits

Your best combos usually use 2c/6c>stuff, and you can generally apply them to a lot of situations

 

Midscreen

2C > 6C > jc > j.B(2) > j.C > j.6/9D > j.236D |> 66 > 6B(2) > 22A , 6B(2) > 236B

This one works off 22b, and close 2c hits 

 

2C > 5D > 5B > 5C > 236D , 6[A] > 22B , 5A > 5B > 6C > jc > j.B(2) > j.C > j.6/9D > j.236D |> 236B

Even tho the guide says close 2c, this one worked with far 2c in 1.0, if you can't time the 236b at the end, place a gravitron in a direction of your choice and launch a fireball, and i haven't tested if this one works off 22b, but if a 22b hits you should be able to run up and do the close one 

 

6B(2) > 5C > 2C > 5D > 5B > 5C > 236D , 6[A] > 22B , 5A > 5B , 6C > jc > j.C > j.9D > j.236D |> 236B

Same thing as the combo above, if you can't time the 236b at the end, you can.....

Also, i don't think it works on Jin

 

[AA] 6A > jc > j.B(2) > jc > j.B(2) > j.C > j.6/9D > j.236D |> 66 > 6B(2) > 22A , 6B(2) > 236B

This one also works from j.B

 

forward throw>8d, 2C>6C>jc>j.C>j.236D l>6B(2)>236B

This one does less damage than the ones on the combo page, but i find it easier to do

 

Backwards throw>7d>6c>j.8d>j.236d>l 6b(2)> 22a> 6b(2)> 236b

Same thing for this one, i just couldn't do the ones on the combo page, and the 7d is supposed to go away from your opponent

 

Note that you can replace 6b>236b for 6b>236c if you want more damage on some combos

 

Corner

 

c.2C > 6C > jc > j.C > j.D> j.C > j.236D |> [6A]>22b,  5B > 5C , 6[A] , 5C > 236B , 5C > 236C

If you are really close, the [6a]>22b>stuff will put you in the corner, and if you are anything like me you will probably drop the combo so i rarely use this one

 

2C > 5D > 5B > 236D , 6C > jc > j.C > j.D > j.236D |> 6B(2) > 236B , 5C > 236C

If you can't time the 236c at the end , like me, it will hit anyone who techs without a barrier, you can also use 22b for oki

 

Corner forward throw>9d, 5c > 2c> 6c> jc>j.C>j.236d l>6b>236b>5c>236c

 

Corner backwards throw>9d >sjc > j.B(2) >jc >j.b(2)>j.C>j.236d l> 6b(2)> 236b> 5c> 236c

Input the 9d towards the corner

 

For corner combos, you can replace any 5c> 236c enders(which are focused on damage), with 5c>22b enders, which are better for oki

 

An oki setup i like to use is: stuff>3c>22b>2a(beats rolls and delay tech IIRC)>5b>22c

You are supposed to do 22c really fast, so if 2a misses(probably due to a dp) and 5b doesn't come out, you will teleport away and bait Dps, just don't do it on Tager since his 50% meter dp hits behind him

If you aren't afraid of dps, do a delayed 22b, no one ever blocks it

[/collapse]

Also, a mini Kokonoe guide i did a long time ago, in case you are interested

[collapse]

2a has excellent range for its startup, 5c has very good range and leads to big damage on counterhit, and it is also very safe, 3c stops almost anything on the ground it it is properly spaced, but it is risky to use since the opponent can jump to avoid it, j.a and j.b have good reach, and j.a seems to be pretty infamous among Relius players, your drive gives you control of the screen, it attracts things to it, you can activate it to make stuff go flying in the opposite direction, you can launch fireballs to it, you can teleport to it with 22c

 

6a is an amazing anti-air, you can charge it, and you can confirms it into an air combo, 3c is a godly poke/footsie tool, just be careful since it can be easily avoided by jumping, 5c has very good range, and on CH it staggers, giving you plenty of time to follow up into a combo, 2c is + on block, fatal counters, and is very good as a frame trap, just be careful using it against people with good reversals, j.b and j.a are both good air normals, i don't know if j.b remains a good air poke with the nerfs to it, but it was in 1.0, and j.a is very fast, the first few hits are overheads, it has a lot of active frames(that you can extend by holding down the button), and can cancel from and into j.b, if you do  j.b>j.a close to the ground you can mess with your opponent since j.a is an overhead

That is what came to my mind at first, but just read her dustloop wiki page, and you should get an idea

 

Your drive is also very useful, it attracts stuff in the stage to its location, and you can do many antics with it, you can place it anywhere on the screen with a direction+d, http://www.dustloop...._Kokonoe_5D.png

 

By doing 236d with one out, it will drastically change the gravity to the opposite of what it was, in other words it sends stuff flying, depending on your spacing after activating one, many things can happen, for example, if your opponent was between you and the gravitron, they will end up in your face,with a one way ticket to an all you can eat mixup buffet, for some strange reason, most people don't block here, but some have hit me out of it by poking after the activation, so be careful

 

Your drive also attracts your 214a/b/c fireballs, something fun you can do is baiting your opponent with fireballs, i like launching one, them placing a 5d(gravitron next to you), you'd be surprised by the amount of people that hang themselves in this scenario by running into your fireball, if they don't run at you, you can send it forwards with 6d(forward graviton), and get a free blockstring or combo if it hits

 

You can also activate the gravitron to send the fireball flying, if you are lucky, it will hit your opponent, and its really satisfying whenever it happens

The fireball game is particularly interesting with Azrael, you can launch a fireball into a trajectory where it won't hit him to bait Growiler and make the Azrael feel really stupid

 

You also have an invulnerable teleport you activate with 22, due to the command, it is immune to cross ups, you can use it to go trough very obvious distortion drives, like when an Azrael tries to use Black Hawk Stinger with both weak points, and Koko has some really strong counter combos, so you are getting some juicy damage off that

If you have a gravitron placed, your teleport will move you to its location

You can use this to escape from the corner if your opponent is far away, place a 6d(forward gravitron), and react depending on what your opponent does, most try to chase you, and you can teleport to the gravitron, or do some fireball antics

http://www.dustloop....=Kokonoe_(BBCP)

 

You can also set traps on the field with 22b, they detonate whenever someone gets close, do some decent damage, and you can combo afterwards for about 3k-4k

These have many uses, you can use them after a knockdown midscreen with 3c, and be amazed at how many people hang themselves in this scenario too, you can jump and barrier to bait dps since it detonates whenever they get up, place a 6d(forward gravitron) if you think they will backroll and do some fireball antics, again you can get creative

Something to note is that if you hit someone with 2c while a trap is set, the following combo will do massive damage

You can also activate a gravitron to launch your opponent towards your trap like Tetsuwo does in this video

 

http://youtu.be/aJ4uie_-3To?t=25m50s

And 2a is a really good poke, 2a>basic string has won me a surprising number of games despite its small damage

[/collapse]

Some things i told a guy over Pms when he asked for some tips

[collapse]

There's more to a character than neutral and combos, you have to learn the kind of stuff you can get away with against blocking opponents too

And what you do during neutral is entirely dependent on your spacing and your opponent, for example you don't want to 22b when you have a Ragna charging at you from half-screen, he'll get there before your 22b becomes active, and even if you are fullscreen, there are some characters than can punish you if you try it, like Relius with Val Lyra(214b), or Geara Lugia(22c)

 

So don't use your traps or fireballs if you are really close, they are really unsafe, and jump back>fireball isn't a reliable way to get a fireball out

instead, use her normals, Koko has a variety of pokes that work in many different situations, 2a, 5c and 3c are her main pokes IMO

 

You use 2a, or dash 2a when you want to get close in the ground, its fast, has decent range and priority, and is an all around good move

5c has a lot more range than it appears to have, and it staggers on Ch, long enough to run up and 2c/6c with decent timing, so its good as a punish and as a longer ranged poke, and its pretty safe on block

I like to use 5c as a round starter, it works really well against people who don't know Koko

Its flaw is that the startup is kinda slow if you are close to your opponent, but that's what 2a is for

 

3c is completely different and less reliable than the above 2, while it has its uses, i suggest not overusing it

Pros:Has massive range, combos to 22a>2c(iirc) on CH, great for combos

Cons:has a huge blind spot in front of you, is easily avoided by jumping, is horrible on block, since the only other options after it are more unsafe than it is, so you are in a very disadvantageous position if it is blocked

It has its uses, like being able to hit some characters put of their attacks pretty easily, trapping people that thought you were gonna do something after a blocked 2c, and being generally good in combos, but i suggest you use it in moderation

Also, don't ever use it if you have a Gravitron out, they tend to mess up your spacing and make you hit with the blind spot

 

About her traps and shit

Her Gravitron is really good since it allows you to effectively control your opponent, for example you can use jump back 5d>236d to get your opponent away from you, i like to use it as a round starter sometimes

Remember that your 236d pushes opponents back really hard, so you can also use it to push them towards you if they are between you and the gravitron

Something fun when you have a 22b set and an opponent at full-screen is using 6d>236d>22c, if the opponent is between you and the gravitron, they will fly towards it while you teleport to its previous location, crossing them up

Like i said, its really fun, and a lot of people fall for it

 

Here's a fireball trick, do 5d>fireball, the fireball will stay next to you, acting like a shield, a lot more people than you'd expect run into it, and if they don't, you can reposition it with 6d or something to go on the offense

When you are up against Azrael, harassing him with fireballs is really fun, try doing fireball>nothing, or fireball>4d, most Azraels try to Growler your fireballs on reaction, and Growler is really unsafe so you can punish them and make them feel like idiots

Once you've done this a few times, they'll be afraid to Growler you, so you can do fireball>6d without much worries, but be sure to mix it up

 

That's what comes to mind about her neutral, but i have a little trick for blockstrings

If you ever manage to land a blocked j.b, it can cancel to j.a, and j.a has a lot of overhead hits, so the opponent might block low to early, or too late and get caught by 2a/b

 

We could play some games, and if you have something blatantly wrong with your neutral(like using 6b as a poke for some reason) i could tell you, either way i suggest you check out her frame data, and avoid using things that are very - on block, like B Broken Bunker, which i've inexplicably seen used outside of combos

 

And i suggest you learn some Gravitron combos(combos that you use when you have a Gravitron out), i thought they didn't seem very useful at first, but you'll be landing them more often than you think

EX:stuff when you have a gravitron out>236d>6[A] > 22B , 5A > 5B > 6C > jc > j.B(2) > j.C > j.6/9D > j.236D |> 236B

Even tho the guide says close 2c, this one worked with far 2c in 1.0, if you can't time the 236b at the end, place a gravitron in a direction of your choice and launch a fireball, and i haven't tested if this one works off 22b, but if a 22b hits you should be able to run up and do the close one

 

Hope that helped

[/collapse]

Very sorry if all that isn't compressed, i hope i used the right /collapse code, also sorry if i repeat stuff, i didn't proofread it all again since it was a lot

Hope it helps

[Myoro]

Ah, thanks so much Cuyo! Haven't heard from ya in eons! I'll deliver this all right to him!

[someonewhodied]

 because this thread is still alive i'll post one of my new oki setups:

 

from overhead combo corner:

 

6B>5C>2C>236B>5B>6A>6C>7j.B(1)>j.C>j.9D>j.236D>22B>5B>214C>5C>

 

1. (Crossup overhead) sj.3D>falling j.B(crossup)>5B>236D>6[A]>22B>5AA>66~6[A](Crossunder)>5C>2C>236B>5C>22B

2. (Crossup low) sj.3D>2A>5B>236D>6[A]>22B>5AA>66~6[A](crossunder)>5C>2C>236B>5C>22B

3. (Fake Crossup overhead) sj.3D>j.2C>j.236D>5B>2C>6C>j.C>j.9D>j.C>j.214D>j.C>j.2C(whiff)>6[A]>22B>5B>5C>6B>236B>5C>22B

4. (Overhead standing, fuzzy'd by fireball) j.3D>falling j.B>5B>236D>6[A]>6C>9~falling j.B(1)>5C>2C>236B>5C>22B

5. (Overhead Crouching) j.3D>falling j.B>236D>5B>2C>6C>j.C>j.9D>j.C>j.214D>j.C>j.2C(whiff)>6A>22B>5B>5C>6B>236B>5C>22B

6. (Low) j.3D>2A>5B>236D>6[A]>22B>5AA>6>6D>5C>236B>66(Crossunder)>236C(Bullets whiff)>22B

7. (Fireball hits, Crossup) sj.3D>(j.B?)>5B>236D>6[A]>22B>5AA>66~6[A](Crossunder)>5C>2C>236B>5C>22B

8. (Fireball Hits, not-crossup) j.3D>(j.B?)>5B>236D>6[A]>22B>5AA>6>6D>5C>236B>66(Crossunder)>236C(Bullets whiff)>22B

[someonewhodied]

late night experimenting let me find some fun setups off of midscreen 3C CH

 

3CCH>5B>6A>6C>j.6D>j.236D>66[A]>22B>5B>214C>2C>7D>632146D

 

Explanation: This abuses the invul on blackhole.

If they tech normally: fireball hits them once being pulled towards graviton, then when BH is activated the fireball comes back to force them into the BH whether by hit or block

Roll: Fireball rollcatches forward roll into unescapable BH on airtech or BH bluebeat on nontech Backroll rolls them right into BH

Jump: Fireball catches jump on the way back

Nontech: Fireball starts a new combo when its being pulled into the BH

Rachel Windtech: Fireball catches it

Most Dash Supers: Fireball catches it and they get BH'd (thanks invul)

 

Doesn't catch terumi's dash super or yukikazes.

 

 

3CCH>5B>6A>6C>j.6D>j.236D>66[A]>22B>5B>214C>6[A]>7D

 

if they airtech in any direction, fireball forces hit or block. IF they are blocking, you get a left/right 50/50 6A to cross up their barrier input (along with some fake outs because of the small dash on it). If it blue beats, just combo into graviton SMP and set up lightning next to where they will land.