[CP] Yuuki Terumi Gameplay Discussion

[Putin]

He's a basic mobility character (albeit fast), with Hazama's normals.

Yes, Hazama's normals are great, but they only work if he's right in their face. Terumi can't really do anything midscreen other than throw 5D or j.D which both have bad reward, unless you have great reflexes and can hitconfirm 5D into Jagaku without autopiloting it.

He pretty much feels like a Ragna with shit range, no ID and 6B. Picture that, doesn't look really good does it?

[Justice7541]

Extend Ragna with Hazama normals doesn't sound that bad at all actually.

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[LionHeartx]

+'s

-strong pressure with a good throw game

-solid damage output

-great up close normals

- really good air normals

-Messenga

-throw, OD, Fuuenjin or Jarin is really good since its a quick and easy unburstable 5k

-decent oki options

-strong at punishes

-great meter gain

-multiple defensive options (non of them are great but at least they cover multiple bases)

-'s

-meh mixups

-terrible long and mid range game

-trouble approaching grounded zoning

-counter assault is pretty bad

-generally has to choose between damage/meter build or oki while midscreen

-his only purple color sucks

he feels like the definition of mid tier imo.

[Guymam]

He may be able to run fast, but he has nothing on Valk's Wolf form, Tao and Hazama's chains. Almost all of the top tiers give him huge problems.

He has trouble chasing down Valk, and like everyone else, when put under pressure has to deal with Valk wolf mixup.

He has trouble against Tao because she can move all around him, and stay out of 6A range. Also, with very little decent oki the match pretty much resets back to neutral after most combos, which she wins hands down at.

Hazama out maneuvers him, though not as well as Tao, and does good damage when he gets in. Hazama also beats him in neutral.

Litchi isn't as difficult, but her mixup and power is still strong.

Hakumen's big normals keep Terumi out.

Though he doesn't always have to deal with Unblockable, Kokonoe's graviton and fireballs and C buttons make that match hard for him anyways.

He's fun, but he's definitely got pretty glaring weaknesses. Some tiers lists on the JBBS have put him as low as C Tier, but then again since it could have come from a random JP poster it's more than likely not totally accurate.

Why does Terumi's counter super "lose" to some DPs? I noticed that Ragna's DP, Tsubaki's DP, and for some reason, Jin's Hizangeki (not a DP) completely ignore the counter. It's kind of silly that you try to bait someone to DP, input the super, and then they just land behind you .

it turns out I was kind wrong about the nature of Counter supers activation. It seems that its hitbox is on the ground, so since Tsubaki and Ragna and Jin aren't on the ground, it doesn't activated. It doesn't activate on Hakumen's Tsubaki either. I can test to see exactly what's happening, but basically, it comes down to this.

That super sucks.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Guymam

[Justice7541]

Well given that landing it with 100 meter is a free 5k minimum, I'd say it's about balanced. If it doesn't hit anything in the air though that's just terrible. Does it lose to jump-ins too?

[fogelstrom]

You can hit it on jump-ins but they have to be very low. If someone does an low IAD j.B/j.C whatever they probably are not getting hit. But I have countered Bullet doing j.D and a few jump-ins but as said they have to be deep. So deep that the character is basically landing within a few frames after.

Also I'm 100% with Guyman on terumi regarding tier.

In my circuits he's heavily overlooked because people think he's extremely bad. But he has alot of potential and with time I can see him landing as a solid mid, maybe upper mid tier. But definitely not higher.

[TD]

hes not bad, his tools are more on the situational end, and he has a harder time against certain character archetypes/tools as stated

theres also the fact that he is very momentum based, he -must- land hits to be truly effective and become more versatile. so good luck with that while hakumen is shoving his 4c down your throat.

fast run speed does not a mobil character make. granted he... moves faster, can evade certain things maybe get in or punish things a little easier but thats it

pressure im starting to get annoyed with, his best normals are short range and 5d. the rest are too short and can be pushed out, don't give good block value or can be disrespected. once pushed out of 2a/5b you might get one more normal (5d is ok) before having to resort to a gimmick and not even being point blank. while he has a few + moves l think his pressure should be more on the shorter end and involve lots of throw shenanigans (thats where his 'mixup' seems to lie anyway), and, once out, use his decent run to get back in

[fogelstrom]

Agreed. I have been thinking of experimenting with 5B, 2B, 5B stuff and 66, 5B frame traps since it's +2 on block along with spamming 6B way more. I just hate having to resort to this kind of pressure as it doesn't suit me coming from a Bang background in EX.

At the moment I'm overusing 2C, jc, j.2D/j.D. I'm using forward, straight and back jump j.D to keep people atleast a bit on their toes if they try to counter but just going between 2C, jc and 2C, 5D isn't all that. Also with j.2D having horrible prorate as starter and short starter you're never getting alot out of it. I think I topped 3,8k dmg with 100% Fuuenjin in corner from it. Albeit decent dmg I'm not going to spend 100% of my meter unless it's for the kill.

[fogelstrom]

Has anyone noticed that people tend to burst second hit of Jagaku/236D?

Happens for me quite often. Someone has any good punishes for this? I have so little time for the lab. I guess you would be able to hit them with 6B when falling down for 2C, 5C, 3C, 22C -> whatever midscreen/corner that floats your boat.

Also anyone found anything else in the way of burst bait? Most part I just try and hit 2C for jc, block. Works alright. Terumi not having alot of jc moves makes it a bit awkward.

[TD]

he doesn't have anything besides RC and plenty of it. so he technically would have the easiest time baiting a burst if he wanted, but with a average or low reward assuming it worked and where. remember the cooldown after RCing and make the combo last a bit for a real man's punish. they'll get the hint and never burst again lol.

so, where's the critique thread? the resets/pressure thread? we need them, badly. my impression is that terumi is not nearly as easy as he was supposed to be. which is good, but it would be great to have these so players can have access to the info.

l alredy have my hands full with relius/rachel so perhaps someone else should make them.

lastly has any jp players picked him up on netplay?

[Justice7541]

Make the thread and I'll post in it lol.

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[Ctrlaltwtf]

The thing that irritates me most about him is that he has incredible AA...that leads to crap/nothing when you land it.

As for his counter, it seems as though it has an actual hitbox right in front of him. If the enemy is not in that specific hitbox when it activates, nothing will happen. So if someone hits you from behind somehow or weird hitboxes during certain DPs it simply won't activate.

And it's bad.

[Justice7541]

He gets like 3.5k meterless and 60 meter from his CH 6a? Not sure how that's bad. Even on regular hit he still gets like 1.5k and 20-30% heat.

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[fogelstrom]

6A, j.C(3), jc, j,C(3), j,2D - Only non CH combo I ever use. Indeed crappy pay-off. But for CH.

6A CH, 2D, 5C, 3C, 6D, 236D

6A CH, 2D, 5C, 22C Lv3, Messenga, 66, 5B, 5C, 3C, 6D, 236D

6A CH, 2D, 5C, 22C, (66), 2C, 5C, 3C, 6D, 236D, whatever distortion

6A CH, 6B, 2C, (5C), 22C, 6D, 2C, 5C, 236D, whatever distortion

Just a few things. Also you can add OD to any combo with 22C in corner or just OD cancel 5C(1) and do j,2D, 2C and whatnot,

Doing 6A, 2D is commiting though. If they barrier and fall down you are probably getting blown up.

[Henjin]

So in scoreattack, ive noticed you can get more points by watching terumi stomp the shit out of ragna after you beat him. An interesting discovery for me.

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[Omortus]

Been playing Terumi for a couple weeks now, having too much fun playing him to call him a sub anymore.

I discovered a combo-ender for corner combos that I've some success with and maybe you guys might find it useful. By ending lengthy combos with 5D > 6B, opponents will tech in mid-air just before 6B hits. This gets you a 6B knock-down combo if they neutral air tech and don't barrier-block, or a Fatal if they're mashing. An example combo using 5D > 6B ender:

5B > 5C > 3C > 22C Lv3, 2C > 5C > 3C > 5D > 6D, 5C > 3C > 5D > 6B

4004 damage, 67 Heat

If your opponent doesn't wind up teching after 5D, 6B will knock them down and let you lay down corner pressure. Although forward and backward aerial rolls will avoid the 6B and set you up to eat a combo. Forward aerial roll will get you in the corner and screw you bad especially. It doesn't seem like 6B feint has a fast enough recovery to AA forward/back aerial rolls, but I need to do more testing on this. Gimmicky ender, but very useful for neutral techers. Great for people not expecting it, but I've seen some people late-tech or tech+barrier before I had a chance to hit them with it. Probably to avoid 22C reset shenanigans.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Omortus

[fogelstrom]

It's a known gimmick. I use it sometimes against people visibly flustered and just laugh as I do 5C, 22C Lv3, 100% Fuuenjin after for 5k+ dmg.

But as you said it has huge flaws and when the game hits the arcade things like these will be obsolote. Fun to to pull out now and again thou

While we're on the subject of gimmicks and shenanigans...

5D, ODc, 5D, 236236D (unblockable in OD). It's hilarious. Obviously you have to space this correctly and not point blank.

Edited November 27, 2013 by fogelstrom

[Omortus]

Gotchya, sorry if it was already discussed in the thread. Didn't see a mention about it when I perused it.

Didn't know about unblockable OD 236236D, I'll have to mess with that.

[pulsr]

The problem with his 6A is that you can't confirm it. If you don't jump ASAP your moves will whiff and you'll lose your chance at momentum. It doesn't help that his air Normals are fickle as all hell too.

I think he is Alright tier wise. If they don't have a dp how do they fight him? Crank out those overheads and confirm their IBs and you are gold.

The opponent will build hella burst during his combos and I think that is potentially his biggest problem. Who enjoys getting hit by 2 OD combos in a round?

I like him a lot.He is a huge footsie based character and it feels rewarding to play him. People can't whiff anything without it being punished for fatty damage.

And did you guys see the video about post 6d mixup? I still run that and so do the Japanese now.

[fogelstrom]

The problem with his 6A is that you can't confirm it. If you don't jump ASAP your moves will whiff and you'll lose your chance at momentum. It doesn't help that his air Normals are fickle as all hell too.

I think he is Alright tier wise. If they don't have a dp how do they fight him? Crank out those overheads and confirm their IBs and you are gold.

Unless it's 6A CH. Then you can confirm with 6B. I always do 6A, 2D however. Only problem is when they barrier and punish but not enough people are doing IAD, barrier exactly.

Without DP you realize he only has 5C(1) and 2C as jc and stand up after these since he can only go to 3C as low normal in which you can go to 5D, bad on block or 2D and get CH'd for big dmg at close range. I like j.2D alot but once people catch on about it Terumi's block pressure gets rather boring. Also with j.2D being short starter I don't feel any real reward for landing it besides 50-60 meter. But the meter is meh if you land another j.2D combo as it also has horrible P1.

Alot of people are starting to jump out of my pressure completely free once they know how the revolver chart works. Just up back and barrier. Not alot Terumi can do against that.

[TD]

wouldn't 2c delay IAD throw or jump AD throw work? as well as these methods + ja throw for trm mixup if they expect the throw, jc to bring them back to the ground, jb to jumpin if they don't jump, etc. it shouldnt be completely free, teru should be abusing his jc normals anyway because he falls faster than other chars.

not saying any of these actually work, but -should- work because they do for chars who have one or several similar options.

theres also a few ideas l had to beat jumps but l want to test them first.

[Justice7541]

Unless it's 6A CH. Then you can confirm with 6B. I always do 6A, 2D however. Only problem is when they barrier and punish but not enough people are doing IAD, barrier exactly.

Without DP you realize he only has 5C(1) and 2C as jc and stand up after these since he can only go to 3C as low normal in which you can go to 5D, bad on block or 2D and get CH'd for big dmg at close range. I like j.2D alot but once people catch on about it Terumi's block pressure gets rather boring. Also with j.2D being short starter I don't feel any real reward for landing it besides 50-60 meter. But the meter is meh if you land another j.2D combo as it also has horrible P1.

Alot of people are starting to jump out of my pressure completely free once they know how the revolver chart works. Just up back and barrier. Not alot Terumi can do against that.

5C(1) RC 2B is really nasty since you can still go overhead with j.B if they try to react to the RC by crouching. In general I have found that it's not really worth going past 5B in the revolver chart unless you are planning to do the aforementioned RC mixup since 2C is a really bad normal to try to lead into mixups. If you do elect to do a 2C mixup don't do 5C, do dash 5B 2C > j.2D or 3C. If they eat j.2D you get 50 meter for a free RC mixup, if they try to mash or jump out they eat 3C for an easy 5k combo.

Alternately, just do 5B staggers into j.2D or 2B for a similar mixup. Playing Terumi honestly isn't super different from playing Hazama.

[fogelstrom]

5C(1) RC 2B is really nasty since you can still go overhead with j.B if they try to react to the RC by crouching. In general I have found that it's not really worth going past 5B in the revolver chart unless you are planning to do the aforementioned RC mixup since 2C is a really bad normal to try to lead into mixups. If you do elect to do a 2C mixup don't do 5C, do dash 5B 2C > j.2D or 3C. If they eat j.2D you get 50 meter for a free RC mixup, if they try to mash or jump out they eat 3C for an easy 5k combo.

Alternately, just do 5B staggers into j.2D or 2B for a similar mixup. Playing Terumi honestly isn't super different from playing Hazama.

I would personally not ever spend 50 meter on something gimmicky as 5C(1) RC, 2B. Maybe if it was for the win but I'm really conservative with my meter since Messenga, 6C RC, Soutenjin are too valuable for me.

I indeed need to get ALOT better with 5B stagger/dash pressure. Auto-piloting way too much at the moment just because how well it still works untill you encounter someone adaptive. Also still noboy uses 6B? Whenever I watch vids people never seem to use it.. I feel it's very valuable since you can go to 6B from every other move he has and since it's +4 you get pressure reset and if they know of 6B you can fake it for throws.

In corner 6B fake, B+C, 22C Lv3, 100% Fuuenjin is 5k dmg and hilarious. Add OD after 22C for 6k :D

[beanwich]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the thread.

[Zeromus_X]

And did you guys see the video about post 6d mixup? I still run that and so do the Japanese now.

Is there a link to this?