[CP] Yuuki Terumi Gameplay Discussion

[heavymetalmixer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szbAuq-OE34&t=3m48s
CH j.2D can be followed with 2A on standing opponents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQXwX6tVtng&t=16m6s
(airborne opponent) CH 5D > 236D > 63214B > 66 2C > 5D > 6D > 6A > TK j.2D
works in Corner

[heavymetalmixer]

Don Blow Jon, do you remember you shared with us a video you made the last year about safe jumps? I tried doing the same with j.B(1) and it works.

Just like with j.C, jump forward and do a deep j.B(1) so you can touch the floor and block if they try to DP.

 

After watching sometimes, I couldn't get how the timing for the safe jump was, but I got it after going to Training for a while:

 

1. Midscreen: (In the video you do a microdash, I run more or less until half the distance 22C/6D put the enemy from Terumi)

a) After 22C lvl3: wait until they "touch the wall" to start running and jump.

 

b) After 6D: run after falling but don't jump too quick.

 

 

2. Corner: (always use Barrier while in the air before the j.B(1))

a) After 22C: jump instantly for lvls 1 and 2, a little delay for lvl 3.

 

b) After 6D: wait for the opponent to touch the ground and jump.

 

 

 

 

There are two advantages over j.C for the safejump:

1) It can be comboed.

2) Due to how deep j.B(1) must be done for this, it becomes an ambiguous mixup (j.B(1) is high, j.B(1) whiff > low, j.B(1) throw, j.B(1) > 63214X, etc), that can become into a knockdown and another mixup of the same kind or a tech punish (236D FTW).

 

 

It's official now guys: Terumi is (more or less) a vortex character

 

EDIT: I forgot to say that this mixup also works after 41236C in both Midscreen and Corner and 63214B in Corner:

 

For 41236C you must wait for them to touch the ground (almost instantly), and for 63214B you must delay the jump even more, so the jump is done while they're neutral teching.

 

This safe jump cannot be done after j.2D as ender because they touch the ground before Terumi : /

Edited January 28, 2015 by heavymetalmixer

[heavymetalmixer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9J6bwAPLTM&t=15m16s
(standing opponent) CH 66 2A > 5C > 5D > 6D > 236D works in corner

Edited January 28, 2015 by heavymetalmixer

[GunBlazer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9J6bwAPLTM&t=15m16s

(standing opponent) CH 66 2A > 5C > 5D > 6D > 236D works in corner

Crouching jabs are important again!

[Fame96]

Terumi Neta Combos    

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25442000

[heavymetalmixer]

Terumi Neta Combos    

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25442000

 

So 22C SMP is less restrictive now? . . .

 

I knew it! I knew that that the day when our 22C rules over everything would come! HYAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Fame96]

So 22C SMP is less restrictive now? . . .

I knew it! I knew that that the day when our 22C rules over everything would come! HYAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

These were possible in 1.1, but we now have more options to troll.

I've been meaning to ask this, but how is everyone 's opinion of 2.0 terumi? Do you think he is better or worse?

[heavymetalmixer]

These were possible in 1.1, but we now have more options to troll.

I've been meaning to ask this, but how is everyone 's opinion of 2.0 terumi? Do you think he is better or worse?

 

Generally, he's worse mostly because of two nerfs: 236D range and j.2D hitstun.

 

IMO, beside those nerfs I don't see problems with him, even the j.41236C buff seems very useful for scarying people of antiairing.

 

Something that I've seen is that looks that besides 5B's pushback was lowered, maybe this also applies vertically to airborne opponents, because a lot of combos that involve 5B after 22C in Corner or 41236C in Midscreen, now work on everyone without delays.

 

j.D into j.2D seems nice for keeping pressure if Terumi doesn't fall quickly, also 2B on whiff is better now as a footsie (shorter recovery I think).

 

I'll keep playing him, he still the funny asshole speedster I've always played . . . The mayor problem would be if there's gonna be an update for the actual players on PS3 on just a new game.

[Fame96]

Generally, he's worse mostly because of two nerfs: 236D range and j.2D hitstun.

IMO, beside those nerfs I don't see problems with him, even the j.41236C buff seems very useful for scarying people of antiairing.

Something that I've seen is that looks that besides 5B's pushback was lowered, maybe this also applies vertically to airborne opponents, because a lot of combos that involve 5B after 22C in Corner or 41236C in Midscreen, now work on everyone without delays.

j.D into j.2D seems nice for keeping pressure if Terumi doesn't fall quickly, also 2B on whiff is better now as a footsie (shorter recovery I think).

I'll keep playing him, he still the funny asshole speedster I've always played . . . The mayor problem would be if there's gonna be an update for the actual players on PS3 on just a new game.

Wait that 236D was a nerf? I thought it was a buff.

[heavymetalmixer]

Wait that 236D was a nerf? I thought it was a buff.

 

It has more range in 1.1, so a lot of Midscreen combos had to be shortened to finish them with 236D in 2.0.

[o Nereus o]

These were possible in 1.1, but we now have more options to troll.

I've been meaning to ask this, but how is everyone 's opinion of 2.0 terumi? Do you think he is better or worse?

Personally.. i think he's worse. One of the reasons why i'm learning Relius at the moment. If i can't rock with the terumi changes, i'm probably just going to drop him for Relius because im having a lot more fun with him right now. I feel like a lot of Terumi's nerfs weren't necessary at all.

[heavymetalmixer]

Anybody else here uses the safe jump after 22C or 6D? Is there a way to scare them of teching in a not very obvious way? (236D)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prMSVCuDZIo&t=9m26s
22C safe-jump mixup in action

[heavymetalmixer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjD7FnwKl3Y&t=40m20s
CH 66 3C > CT > 5C works in Corner

[heavymetalmixer]

New tech punish in Midscreen after 22C lvl3: IAD j.D

 

After this, if they wanted to roll or Quick tech, the j.D forces them to Neutral tech. And if they Neutral tech you can bait DPs or do meaty 2A or (my favorite) 5B.

Why do I worked on this one instead of just sticking to the 236D? Because Terumi keeps the momentum if they don't Neutral tech inmediatelly.

 

Now, I have a question for every Terumi player here: Besides for gaining Heat and doing a lot of damage, what do you think Terumi is good for? Pressure? "Strike-throw" mixups? Something else?

[Guilty Valentine]

Is 2.0 Terumi really THAT bad? I'm always reading how he's likely one of the worst characters.

[Don Blow Jon]

Is 2.0 Terumi really THAT bad? I'm always reading how he's likely one of the worst characters.

In my opinion he just lost too many of the tools that made him viable in 1.1, those being frame advantage from j.2D to maintain momentum (now -1 or neutral of I recall) loss of ground bounce from j.D counter hit for when someone attempted to punish Terumi, range on 236D and finally 5D recovery nerf which is our main poking tool. He got some decent tools in return with the most beneficial one being 236D's reduced recovery to create some decent frames traps with it whiffing after certain normals which strengthens his already powerful frame trap game (but not enough to make up for j.2D nerf) but nothing to help with opening up the opponent.

I can see why he's considered one of the worst in the cast, got some unnecessary nerfs when he needed buffs.

[heavymetalmixer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drIy5YHejEo&t=21m8s
(airborne opponent) CH j.D > fall > 6A > jc > j.C(3) > djc > j.(3) > j.2D
works in Midscreen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drIy5YHejEo&t=26m57s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drIy5YHejEo&t=28m56s
The reduced distance on 22C in Midscreen allows less escapable mixups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rfUOu5NRPQ&t=1m50s
236D whiff can be done after j.2D

[Don Blow Jon]

New tech punish in Midscreen after 22C lvl3: IAD j.D

 

After this, if they wanted to roll or Quick tech, the j.D forces them to Neutral tech. And if they Neutral tech you can bait DPs or do meaty 2A or (my favorite) 5B.

Why do I worked on this one instead of just sticking to the 236D? Because Terumi keeps the momentum if they don't Neutral tech inmediatelly.

 

Now, I have a question for every Terumi player here: Besides for gaining Heat and doing a lot of damage, what do you think Terumi is good for? Pressure? "Strike-throw" mixups? Something else?

 

Pressure, basically what he's all about man with the current tool set we've got. He's got some good oki options from his good knockdowns (6D, 22Clvl3) but nothing that standouts from 236D which will be most consistent one you'll get. Also he's got some pretty good fuzzy guards and will be even more effective in Extend. 

[Don Blow Jon]

Also after looking back at safe jump oki it's nowhere as strong midscreen compared to what's possible in the corner due the many ways to disrespect it ie rolling, however there is one way to elevate this problem.

After 22Clvl3 it's possible to IAD j.C for a safe jump. This option can be used to catch people of guard who are expecting a 236D (the window for inputting a safe jump is quite lenient so it allows for some delay) and can be used to react to people not teching (just laying there) after the knockdown to gain some meter in the process. You can then use say 623B to get some damage in or keep the meter to use later during neutral or to get some damage off 5D > 236D.

I'll probably post a video on the safe jump but after some more sweet Guilty Gear.

[heavymetalmixer]

Also after looking back at safe jump oki it's nowhere as strong midscreen compared to what's possible in the corner due the many ways to disrespect it ie rolling, however there is one way to elevate this problem.

After 22Clvl3 it's possible to IAD j.C for a safe jump. This option can be used to catch people of guard who are expecting a 236D (the window for inputting a safe jump is quite lenient so it allows for some delay) and can be used to react to people not teching (just laying there) after the knockdown to gain some meter in the process. You can then use say 623B to get some damage in or keep the meter to use later during neutral or to get some damage off 5D > 236D.

I'll probably post a video on the safe jump but after some more sweet Guilty Gear.

 

I've been practicing for two weeks those timings with j.B and j.C . . . and well, unless I know they're gonna neutral tech, the timing isn't ambiguous at all and hard to do. Pretty much our best tool still is 236D, even with the momentum lose if they don't neutral tech, because the IAD j.D timing for falling and doing a meaty is harder.

 

And I would like to see that video, really appreciated.

[Dawn of Musou]

Now, I have a question for every Terumi player here: Besides for gaining Heat and doing a lot of damage, what do you think Terumi is good for? Pressure? "Strike-throw" mixups? Something else?

Pressure tactics and oki tools like Don said. Also making the opponent press buttons and punishing for it along with the occasional j.2D and 214D to open them up. I've noticed that people forget Terumi has a Crush Trigger so I throw that out rarely too, it is minus on block tho so you gotta make sure the opponent isn't using barrier lol.

[TD]

Pressure and speed is all he has, outside of point blank now in his advantage, any button he presses runs a great risk of whiffing and/or being punished. Since 5d is his only scary, consistent tool in neutral and it has been neutered, same with jd and j2d in the air. If he gets caught with no meter, either by getting caught in neutral or blowing it all on a combo (which is the point!) for "ok" oki, he can get extremely bodied.

His risk and reward is skewed toward risk for most things, so the player has to keep being clairvoyant. Feels great to constantly reset pressure or score a counterhit with him though.

Most matchups where the foe has a dp, especially meter less, or outranges his 5d, or has strong pressure on their own (think about 80-90% of the cast right now having one or more of these things), is an uphill battle.

Edit, basically everything everyone else said plus the many many weaknesses of this char.

[heavymetalmixer]

Pressure and speed is all he has, outside of point blank now in his advantage, any button he presses runs a great risk of whiffing and/or being punished. Since 5d is his only scary, consistent tool in neutral and it has been neutered, same with jd and j2d in the air. If he gets caught with no meter, either by getting caught in neutral or blowing it all on a combo (which is the point!) for "ok" oki, he can get extremely bodied.

His risk and reward is skewed toward risk for most things, so the player has to keep being clairvoyant. Feels great to constantly reset pressure or score a counterhit with him though.

Most matchups where the foe has a dp, especially meter less, or outranges his 5d, or has strong pressure on their own (think about 80-90% of the cast right now having one or more of these things), is an uphill battle.

Edit, basically everything everyone else said plus the many many weaknesses of this char.

 

You made me cry :' (

[Omortus]

Now, I have a question for every Terumi player here: Besides for gaining Heat and doing a lot of damage, what do you think Terumi is good for? Pressure? "Strike-throw" mixups? Something else?

 

I've actually wondered about this too. Most of his weak-points were pretty apparent, even on paper, in 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0. Yet it feels like Aksys missed many chances to make him a strong, competitive character while simultaneously adding head-scratching "improvements" that just don't cut it. IMO, this narrows down the possibilities about Terumi's direction:

 

1. Aksys has a direction they're taking Terumi with, and it's different than what the community thinks it should be.

2. Aksys isn't sure what they want to do with the character.

 

When you lack at his history of changes between the three versions, it's hard to decide which is the case. It's probably a combination of both. Things like Burensen mixup sounded like an awesome solution to a lack of standing overhead, but was pretty poorly executed with A Burensen requiring 100 meter to follow-up with and the damage just typically not being worth the investment of meter. Anti-air Renshouga  was unexpected, but was pretty terrible in practice due to a specific trajectory, LONG start-up time and just the fact it could be barrier blocked to waste 100 meter. Things like this could have and should have been caught in testing unless they wanted them to be that way.

 

So it might sound a little crazy, but I get the feeling Aksys want gimmicks to be a main part of Terumi's toolset. It's the reasoning I can think of that best explains "close but not close enough" mark that Terumi's been at in every version, and why some of his more practical things like J.2D combos and mid-screen Burensen corner-carry combos get patched out while things like unreliable-but-devastating 22C resets get left in, and why Burensen mixup and anti-air Renshouga get added but don't feel polished or thought-out. IMO they want Terumi to be a character that's fun to watch and wins matches in entertaining ways, but they're afraid of making him too reliable or consistent to the point that he's frustrating to fight against. What they might not get is that it's probably more frustrating for the person playing as Terumi because he might not feel like a complete, well-tuned character; the gimmicks are unreliable and they don't often win matches when they work, forcing players to use a standard, predictable toolset that feels less-rounded compared to other characters.

[heavymetalmixer]

I've actually wondered about this too. Most of his weak-points were pretty apparent, even on paper, in 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0. Yet it feels like Aksys missed many chances to make him a strong, competitive character while simultaneously adding head-scratching "improvements" that just don't cut it. IMO, this narrows down the possibilities about Terumi's direction:

 

1. Aksys has a direction they're taking Terumi with, and it's different than what the community thinks it should be.

2. Aksys isn't sure what they want to do with the character.

 

When you lack at his history of changes between the three versions, it's hard to decide which is the case. It's probably a combination of both. Things like Burensen mixup sounded like an awesome solution to a lack of standing overhead, but was pretty poorly executed with A Burensen requiring 100 meter to follow-up with and the damage just typically not being worth the investment of meter. Anti-air Renshouga  was unexpected, but was pretty terrible in practice due to a specific trajectory, LONG start-up time and just the fact it could be barrier blocked to waste 100 meter. Things like this could have and should have been caught in testing unless they wanted them to be that way.

 

So it might sound a little crazy, but I get the feeling Aksys want gimmicks to be a main part of Terumi's toolset. It's the reasoning I can think of that best explains "close but not close enough" mark that Terumi's been at in every version, and why some of his more practical things like J.2D combos and mid-screen Burensen corner-carry combos get patched out while things like unreliable-but-devastating 22C resets get left in, and why Burensen mixup and anti-air Renshouga get added but don't feel polished or thought-out. IMO they want Terumi to be a character that's fun to watch and wins matches in entertaining ways, but they're afraid of making him too reliable or consistent to the point that he's frustrating to fight against. What they might not get is that it's probably more frustrating for the person playing as Terumi because he might not feel like a complete, well-tuned character; the gimmicks are unreliable and they don't often win matches when they work, forcing players to use a standard, predictable toolset that feels less-rounded compared to other characters.

 

Given that his better tools requiere meter, I think that ASW is trying to do with Terumi, what French bread did to C-V.Akiha:

 

A character with awesome meter gain, good pressure in the corner but the meter goes away as fast as it comes, basically giving us another character that bases his core gameplay at very heavy meter management (like Hakumen in that regard, but with different tools and movement options).

 

I wouldn't have problems if we still need the 5C(1) RC mixups for doing ambiguous moves, but ASW is wrecking his meter gain, cutting every option he has.

Edited March 1, 2015 by heavymetalmixer