[CP] Yuuki Terumi Gameplay Discussion

[Fame96]

That azrael did make alot of mistakes (he would not stop trying to jump out. Terumi capitalized big time.)

[LaowPing]

Any chance that could of been the result of him trying to fuzzy jump or is that technique near unbeatable

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[Antihero11]

I've actually wondered about this too. Most of his weak-points were pretty apparent, even on paper, in 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0. Yet it feels like Aksys missed many chances to make him a strong, competitive character while simultaneously adding head-scratching "improvements" that just don't cut it. IMO, this narrows down the possibilities about Terumi's direction:

 

1. Aksys has a direction they're taking Terumi with, and it's different than what the community thinks it should be.

2. Aksys isn't sure what they want to do with the character.

 

When you lack at his history of changes between the three versions, it's hard to decide which is the case. It's probably a combination of both. Things like Burensen mixup sounded like an awesome solution to a lack of standing overhead, but was pretty poorly executed with A Burensen requiring 100 meter to follow-up with and the damage just typically not being worth the investment of meter. Anti-air Renshouga  was unexpected, but was pretty terrible in practice due to a specific trajectory, LONG start-up time and just the fact it could be barrier blocked to waste 100 meter. Things like this could have and should have been caught in testing unless they wanted them to be that way.

 

So it might sound a little crazy, but I get the feeling Aksys want gimmicks to be a main part of Terumi's toolset. It's the reasoning I can think of that best explains "close but not close enough" mark that Terumi's been at in every version, and why some of his more practical things like J.2D combos and mid-screen Burensen corner-carry combos get patched out while things like unreliable-but-devastating 22C resets get left in, and why Burensen mixup and anti-air Renshouga get added but don't feel polished or thought-out. IMO they want Terumi to be a character that's fun to watch and wins matches in entertaining ways, but they're afraid of making him too reliable or consistent to the point that he's frustrating to fight against. What they might not get is that it's probably more frustrating for the person playing as Terumi because he might not feel like a complete, well-tuned character; the gimmicks are unreliable and they don't often win matches when they work, forcing players to use a standard, predictable toolset that feels less-rounded compared to other characters.

Sorry, I left the full quote since it was a page or two back.

Anyways, basically this. I agree 100%. I've dropped BlazBlue for Guilty Gear and finally picked up an arcade stick. I'm maining Zato-1, because I love his backstory, personality, character design... etc. Playstyle wise, he was very different. I never used a puppet character before. I bring it up because Zato's learning curve is high, but extremely rewarding!

This is the problem with Terumi. He's easy to learn, not rewarding at all, and hard to play since he doesn't have half as many options as the rest of the cast. And after playing this complicated lovely character, I'm tempted to drop Terumi and pick up Relius or Hazama again. I would hate to say it, but Terumi feels one dimensional and simple. He destroys other characters at low levels of play because of his meter gain and insane damage off of resets/gimmicks. But even at an intermediate level, he gets beat pretty bad.

Here's the good news. I believe Terumi has some unexplored potential. But in order for him to be successful he'll need to build at least 50 meter in many of his BnB's. I think the 5C (1) into rapid cancel mixup is very good. It puts your opponent in a 50/50 that is impossible to react to. He can immediately do j.B for a high into combo, or 3C for a huge damaging combo. But people can just block low. I think Japanese players don't excel with Terumi because they're too "honest". Terumi needs to be played with rapid cancels, mixups, reckless risks, and pressure resets. If you play him with spacing, safe pressure strings and frame traps, he'll remain a terrible character.

In order to be good, he'll need a lot of these tools. Even so, I feel he's still weak and depends way too much having 50-100 meter. Without it, he doesn't even have many good resets or gimmicks. I think Relius would be a more rewarding character. Most people who tried Terumi just switch back to Hazama since he has so many other options, and he's a legitimate character. Noze used Terumi for a little bit, tried netplay with him, made combo videos. Then he dropped him for Hazama and never looked back.

What are your guys impressions? I know it's my decision to stick with Terumi or move to another character, but I'm feeling pretty bored with this character. It's not even that Terumi isn't "good", just that he is one dimensional and gets boring quick. Anyone else feel this way?

 

[heavymetalmixer]

IMO: simple? Yes, plain? Maybe, boring? Not at all. If there's something that a alot of players seem to hate is to perfect the basics, something that a good Terumi player needs (without having retarded options: Ragna, Jin), and also he's way better than Makoto in previous games because of his range, low-execution, heat gain and "the trolling"

 

Many players also hate to think about resources management, as I see it, that management is the funiest thing about him, and it's what makes him different from all the characters. I preffer to have difficulties in my head and solve them with my brain than wasting hours and hours because I'm not good enough for the required execution level.

 

And yeah, a lot of japanese players don't play him with mixups in mind (5C(1) > RC mostly) so Terumi becomes boring for them quickly, but at the end, as I already said, he's a charater that you mostly play in your head, not in your hands.

[LaowPing]

I feel you, man. I feel like the main thing for Terumi is that he doesn't get enough reward. I'm fine with needed to gain meter for something as long as I'm rewarded for it. J.2D is a decent mix-up if you gimmick it correctly (safe jump J.B into J.2D) but he gets so little damage off of it, just meter. And then, once you get meter you don't really feel much stronger. Maybe a little bit of damage midscreen or corner carry but nothing that feels like it'll make an impact. Bullet and Izayoi rely on resources but they become A tier once they get it. High damage combos and better neutral game just for making it past the 30 second mark. With meter, Terumi just feels decent. He still lacks a real over head and all of his mix up options (J.2D, command grab, normal grab) only lead to more meter which he can't use in a creative way. I feel that ArcSys just figured that giving him a crap ton of supers would make up for it but when half of those supers aren't worth it, it doesn't make a difference. Terumi can be good when used properly, his pressure is godlike and footsies are great, but in a cast where half the characters break the laws of fighting games (Hi Hazama!), and half the cast has a reversal that disrespects pressure he feels forgotten.

 

He does have hidden potential though, Few pro players have taken him seriously. so no one can say for sure what he can do in the hands of a really strong player.

[Antihero11]

I did not mean to offend by calling Terumi boring, as it's honestly a matter of opinion. I do think about resource management a lot. If you play Relius or Zato, you need to pay attention to the shadow gauge or ignis guage. So it's not like Terumi requires a stronger mental game them him. I am all for perfecting the basics. In fact, there is nothing I love more than working on my spacing. I feel spacing and neutral game is 90% of any fighting game. I just feel the reward you get is still low, as most of his basic combos do very little damage. Terumi is scary with meter, but due to system mechanics (counter assault, burst, etc), it's relatively easy to keep him at bay or jab out of his pressure. It just feels like high risk, low reward. Or low risk, low reward.

I believe if someone takes him very seriously and focuses on his mixups and meter management, he could be a serious character. But characters like Hazama and Relius are more technical and have better options. Terumi is easier to play than both of them, but you need to be creative to play Terumi. Your gimmicks and rapid cancels have to be very strong.

 

[Koori]

Terumi is interesting to play for me because he demands a really high level of play to win, i feel like he's a character that really needs you to get inside your opponent head, mess with his expectations, fully using his heat again to execute mixups, baits, reads to stay on pressure and make them feel they cant get out (even though most of the time they should be able to!).

And i think playing him with good spacing, frame traps and pressure strings is just half of what a terumi player needs to do, he demands a lot of adaptation and smart use of his limited, but existent, tools, though you could say that about any character i guess

[Omortus]

I think you guys summed-up Terumi's shortcomings pretty clearly. It definitely seems like he takes a greater deal of creativity and effort to get results that other characters don't require as much with. I feel one of his greatest assets is that his blockstrings are awesome at making people impatient and eating damage for pushing buttons. Though it seems like it's not as effective against players that use characters with DPs, know when to mash, simply DGAF or any combination of the three. This is most likely my lack of experience talking, but I feel like it's almost impossible to condition those kinds of players to sit still for any attempt at creative mix-ups and pressure when they know their character is better than yours.

 

Regardless, he has potential to shine just like any character. He's also damn entertaining to watch not just because of his style, but because he's also underrated and it's so satisfying to watch him blow people up when it happens. I plan maining him still in Extend, and I'm looking forward to  just finding crazy and hilarious ways to win matches with him.

[LaowPing]

I've learned that the trick to dealing with DP characters is to do mix-ups early. Don't let them get comfortable and watch for openings. Do your grabs and gimmicks the moment they choose not to DP on wake up. I love fighting characters without a reversal though. Spamming 5B and 6B for pressure resets and they can't do anything about it. 2.0 is going to be awesome with that new OS

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[Antihero11]

I have mixed feelings about 2.0 Terumi. I'm really looking forward to 236D having less recovery on whiff. This will make for some awesome resets and mixups. Especially if he can 2A or throw before the opponent has a chance to react. On the other hand, I really wish he didn't lose his combos off of j.2D. I loved that combo. And it could build massive meter when you got the 6B > 6D. The damage wasn't great, but the meter gain and corner carry on it made it an excellent combo. It's very sad we lost it.

In the end, I've decided to go back to my old main, Hazama. He's a more "legitimate" character, has better mixups, mind games, and high damage when he hits 50 heat. More my style anyways. But I'll still sub Terumi and frequent the forums to help discover tech. So I'm not abandoning Terumi as a character. I think it's a happy medium.

 

[heavymetalmixer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9oiaanIJ5Q&t=57s
236D does give more untechable time?

http://www.twitch.tv/inso10&t=15m50s
After 5B > 5D > 6D in the Corner, 3C > 236D works.

http://www.twitch.tv/inso10&t=16m35s
FC 6B; 5C > 3C > 22C lvl 2 > 5B > 5D > 6D; 3C > 5D > 236D works in the Corner.

[Fame96]

It seems that the fear of the 6D change affecting combos drasticly may be a bit of an exaggeration? I've seen 6C connect after 6D midscreen (it does look harder though), and now we're seeing 3C after 6D in the corner late in the combo (3C is currently 10 frames, 6C is 13 frames, and 5C is 11 frames). I'm definelety going to need to test it when i get my hands on extend.

[heavymetalmixer]

It seems that the fear of the 6D change affecting combos drasticly may be a bit of an exaggeration? I've seen 6C connect after 6D midscreen (it does look harder though), and now we're seeing 3C after 6D in the corner late in the combo (3C is currently 10 frames, 6C is 13 frames, and 5C is 11 frames). I'm definelety going to need to test it when i get my hands on extend.

 

Same, maybe twe could even do 2B > 5C > 3C after 6D in the corner. Or maybe is character-specific.

[Fame96]

Same, maybe twe could even do 2B > 5C > 3C after 6D in the corner. Or maybe is character-specific.

Yea. Right now the only combos I think may be affected alot are specific corner overdrive combos ( mainly referring to cleaving, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, ODC, whiff J.2D, 6D)

[StylisH]

I tried this character out just for shiggles and what I noticed:  

 

A) Terumi can be very fun to play with.  

 

B) Pressure/stagger ability is top class

 

C) His design is pretty cool

 

D) loltrollstomps

 

E) Highest meter gain evar 

 

F) Easy to use and confirm into absurd damage

 

G) Unfortunately, he needs certain starters (mainly 6BFC and usually OD) in order to do so

 

H) Has a lot of problems opening people up.  Usually requires 50 meter and a lot of creativity in order to do so

 

I) Oki is just ok at best

 

J) Needs meter for damn near everything

 

Of course most of you know this, but this is what I figured out after playing about 200 matches in casuals with him.  IMO, all Terumi really needs to shoot up a few tiers is a decent OH, even if it requires meter to combo off of (I mean meter gain is his specialty anyway).  The potential is there, but he does have his challenges.  He can be zoned w/o meter.  He can be pressured w/o meter.  His oki is kind of ass w/o proper spacing and/or an inexperienced opponent and his normals could use a bit more range.  

 

In all, for me he's a fun character to tool around with on the side, but to be a contender at the very least give the man an OH Arc.  Without a decent mixup threat outside of throw/j2D/low mash 6B frame trap, he will remain last in the cast.  And that's just for starters.

[FKGunBlaze]

Is it me, or j.C has more hitstun?

[heavymetalmixer]

Is it me, or j.C has more hitstun?

 

Exact timestamp?

[FKGunBlaze]

Exact timestamp?

It's somewhat prominent through the match, and my internet doesn't seem to be loadin YT for now...

[Omortus]

コーハツ　第122回ブレイブルーCPVer2.0金曜大会

vs

https://youtu.be/k1-Li3fcCZA?t=1h45m3s

https://youtu.be/k1-Li3fcCZA?t=1h49m1s

 

 

I noticed this Terumi player had a hard time dealing with rolls on wake-up. What good options does Terumi have to punish rolls? I've seen 236D used a lot in 2.0, and even Burensen sometimes in the corner. I've tried using 2B in the past but never really caught anything with it.

[heavymetalmixer]

I noticed this Terumi player had a hard time dealing with rolls on wake-up. What good options does Terumi have to punish rolls? I've seen 236D used a lot in 2.0, and even Burensen sometimes in the corner. I've tried using 2B in the past but never really caught anything with it.

 

Also 2A is good in the corner, mostly if you finish the combo with 6C, you can punish their forward/backward tech with 2A > 5C.

[TD]

236d, stomp super, 2a OS mentioned, and 5b OS. 2b is really long recovery if this is unsuccessful for virtually the same reward as 5b if not slightly less. One could also backdash to prevent forward tech out of corner, but pressure afterward is less effective if the foe does not roll forward.

[Fame96]

I begged my friend to gameshare with me. I'm downloading it now. Should be ready when i wake up tomorrow. I plan on making a combo video covering optimal routes and driveloops. Hopefully i remember to do it.

[TheDarkHer0]

So guys I picked up Terumi today, and I am having troubles linking 22C into 236D, what's the catch for this ?

[heavymetalmixer]

I begged my friend to gameshare with me. I'm downloading it now. Should be ready when i wake up tomorrow. I plan on making a combo video covering optimal routes and driveloops. Hopefully i remember to do it.

 

Could you also test and show bnbs and different routes than seen in the videos?

[Fame96]

Could you also test and show bnbs and different routes than seen in the videos?

I will try.