Understanding Neutral, Offense, and Defense

[violette21]

Hello everyone I made this thread to ask a bit of questions of those 3 topics in the time of my thread. I have never really been a fan of fighting games playing mostly RPG's and action/adventures games but, one day on internet I saw that Jin Kisargi was being added in a MMO I played called Lost Saga. After I saw him I became interested with Blazblue so on my birthday I bought calamity trigger(PSP) and was instanly hooked on the games characters and story. Soon I bought extend after and a arcade stick as suggested by my friend and well at first I did bad getting used to the arcade stick and stuff but after many matches with my another friend I got better at stick(stiil need work though). Soon I got into online and everything that people said would happended came. So today I come to ask some questions to better myself.

To start how do excel in neutral?( I use platinum btw love her) I got some general idea that you neutral is the phrase when you want to be in your opponents face but can't. Some problems I have encoutered in Neutral is that its hard to approch the opponent I try at the start of the match to make some space and summon a magical weapon but, I find its hard to just hit my opponent when they are constanly moving in the air rather than the ground because they make use of jumps I can't AA them and when they fall to the ground I get hit by their attacks. My overall problem with neutral is I don't know what else I should be doing beside using plat's 5B,3C or j.C.

Up next in terms of offense I notice that it's weak I can't open up my opponent. Whenever I Vs my friend I can never apply good pressure and he just reads it all I try to use 6C or 6A in pressure but at this point he knows I JC 6A so I can't use it to continue pressue even with the pan. Throws are out of options because I make it too obvious when my pressure fails so it seems I can only open my opponents if I do something super unexpected but, even then I if I make a hit I can't do a decent mid screen combo or make one up unless its from my AA. Finally my last problem in offense is I am aware that when you knockdown your opponent you have and advantage so I try to use the bubble oki or bombs what ends up happening against my friend is a moment later he throw counters me, if its anyone else it might work.

Lastly my defensive game, for this my problem is when I start getting pressured it's GG for me unless they have a weak pressure or if I know that characters gattling really well. Everytime I get pressured I just end up so stiff that even after the pressure if over I just sit there in the corner hold that low block or high block for dear life in the corner. I feel like when I started taking pressure I just sit there and have to take it but, I see other people jumping out as soon as its done and filled with life. The last problem with my defensive is I can't really predict when someone is gonna throw this is one of my major weaknesses as opponents notice I have a stiff guard and just throw me and if they can combo from it then I am in trouble.

In conclusion I feel like if I don't improve these problem areas I will never be as good as my some of my friends and especially my younger brother who is just so phoneminal at fighting game(or PVP based games). Oh and last thing is reading the situation also important cause I fail at that too.(sorry for long essay:()

[Klaige]

I've actually done episodes of IAD-TV on the neutral game, Defensive mentality, and Okizeme (a major part of offense). Now granted those episode focuson guilty gear instead of blazblue but the fundamentals behind them carry over to most 2d fighters, and especially to arc-sys games. Click the link in my signature and give them a watch, they might help clear up a lot of your questions without having to type out a 30 page guide on these rather depthy topcis!

[violette21]

I've actually done episodes of IAD-TV on the neutral game, Defensive mentality, and Okizeme (a major part of offense). Now granted those episode focuson guilty gear instead of blazblue but the fundamentals behind them carry over to most 2d fighters, and especially to arc-sys games. Click the link in my signature and give them a watch, they might help clear up a lot of your questions without having to type out a 30 page guide on these rather depthy topcis!

Ok I will give it a watch when I get the chance thank you very much for the assistance.

[Klaige]

You are quite welcome. If you have any specific questions on the topics just shout.

[Airk]

Hello everyone I made this thread to ask a bit of questions of those 3 topics in the time of my thread. I have never really been a fan of fighting games playing mostly RPG's and action/adventures games but, one day on internet I saw that Jin Kisargi was being added in a MMO I played called Lost Saga. After I saw him I became interested with Blazblue so on my birthday I bought calamity trigger(PSP) and was instanly hooked on the games characters and story. Soon I bought extend after and a arcade stick as suggested by my friend and well at first I did bad getting used to the arcade stick and stuff but after many matches with my another friend I got better at stick(stiil need work though). Soon I got into online and everything that people said would happended came. So today I come to ask some questions to better myself.

Welcome! It sounds like you are doing everything right so far!

To start how do excel in neutral?( I use platinum btw love her) I got some general idea that you neutral is the phrase when you want to be in your opponents face but can't. Some problems I have encoutered in Neutral is that its hard to approch the opponent I try at the start of the match to make some space and summon a magical weapon but, I find its hard to just hit my opponent when they are constanly moving in the air rather than the ground because they make use of jumps I can't AA them and when they fall to the ground I get hit by their attacks. My overall problem with neutral is I don't know what else I should be doing beside using plat's 5B,3C or j.C.

Lots of stuff in this paragraph, a lot of which would probably be answered better in the Platinum forum, or at least, by someone who actually plays Plat, but here's some info to get you started:

#1: It's going to be a little bit hard to summon stuff. Lots of Platinum players like to start by superjumping back and summoning an item, but this only works at low levels, because if your opponent predicts it, then can superjump/airdash forward and punish you. Probably the safest time to summon an item is when your opponent is knocked down, though you will also need to do in neutral, try to do it when your opponent is far away, at least. (This will vary from character to character - when and how it is safe to summon an item is very different if you are facing Lambda than it is against Ragna.)

#2: If your opponent is moving around in the air a lot, Platinum has some good options for dealing with them - if they are coming in from more or less straight above you, her 2C is very strong. If they are more in front of you, her 6A is a good anti air. You can also jump and air throw, or jump back and use j.C. You'll want to choose the best tool for each situation, but those are some to get you started.

#3: 5B is a good basic move for use in neutral, but I'd be careful with 3C. j.C is okay, but most likely if you want to jump in on your opponent you'll want to use j.2C or j.B. Also, if you are close enough, Platinum's 5A is pretty strong, though if you're that close, you may not be in 'neutral' anymore. The other game changers for Platinum's neutral game are bombs, missiles, and cat hammer (and present in CP). Her other items are either primarily defensive (Bat), or combo/mixup related (Hammer, Pan). One move you'll mostly want to AVOID in Neutral is Mami Circular ("Heart Car") as it leaves you in a very bad place on block.

Up next in terms of offense I notice that it's weak I can't open up my opponent. Whenever I Vs my friend I can never apply good pressure and he just reads it all I try to use 6C or 6A in pressure but at this point he knows I JC 6A so I can't use it to continue pressue even with the pan. Throws are out of options because I make it too obvious when my pressure fails so it seems I can only open my opponents if I do something super unexpected but, even then I if I make a hit I can't do a decent mid screen combo or make one up unless its from my AA. Finally my last problem in offense is I am aware that when you knockdown your opponent you have and advantage so I try to use the bubble oki or bombs what ends up happening against my friend is a moment later he throw counters me, if its anyone else it might work.

Again, this might be better suited to the Plat forums, but:

#1: Pressure takes a lot of time to learn, don't get discouraged.

#2: You have a pretty good jump of jump cancellable normals - 5A, 5B, and 5C are all jump cancellable - so you shouldn't rely on 6A or 6C to set up an overhead. Probably the best 'basic' place to go for an overhead frying pan is after 5B, since you can do either 5B > jc > Frypan or 5B > 2B for a low. You shouldn't forget about 6B either - it's an overhead, and can link into a 5A pretty easily at long range.

#3: You'll eventually want to start doing jab stagger pressure. This is basically 5A > ((5A >) 5A > Dash) i.e. any number of 5As followed by a quick dash in and more 5As. Preferably with just a TINY bit of time between the 5As so that if your opponent tries to jab or throw, they'll get counterhit. This helps keep your opponent from mashing buttons at you and makes it easier to sneak in a throw.

#4: There are certain setups where you can do a bubble or bombs safely. I'll leave that to people who actually know Plat. Just throwing them out after any knockdown doesn't really work. But if your opponent is in the habit of just doing a wakeup throw or something dumb like that, start doing a "meaty" 5B - that is, wait for them to tech, and then throw out a 5B so that it hits them just as they are able to move/block after the tech. If they do anything other than block or do a frame 1 invulnerable move (like Inferno Divider or Platinum's Bat) they will get hit. This helps keep your opponent honest. You can also do meaty 6B or 2B to get an immediate mixup.

Lastly my defensive game, for this my problem is when I start getting pressured it's GG for me unless they have a weak pressure or if I know that characters gattling really well. Everytime I get pressured I just end up so stiff that even after the pressure if over I just sit there in the corner hold that low block or high block for dear life in the corner. I feel like when I started taking pressure I just sit there and have to take it but, I see other people jumping out as soon as its done and filled with life. The last problem with my defensive is I can't really predict when someone is gonna throw this is one of my major weaknesses as opponents notice I have a stiff guard and just throw me and if they can combo from it then I am in trouble.

This one, sadly, mostly comes down to practice and trying to really -think- about it. I have many of the same problems you do (not jumping out, ever, and not teching throws). It might be worth playing some matches where you basically think to yourself "Screw it, I'm going to jump back and barrier every chance I get" just to see what happens and learn to do it sometimes. Also, don't feel ashamed to mash Bat. :P

Really, it all just comes down to being relaxed, remembering that this really doesn't matter, and trying new things as you gain experience. Though some time in training mode never hurt anyone either.

[violette21]

All right thank you for the information the crazy thing is I was not aware 5B was Jump cancellable lol the more you know. I will take what you said into consideration in revising my game plan for plat,especially the meaty 5B as my friend who uses Valkenhayn loves to use throw counters anytime I try to start pressure just so I have it right meaty attacks are when you use moves with alot active frames on wake up right? for example something like Mu-12's arrows of heaven or Ragna 5B. For now I will take a look at Klaige's videos on those 3 topics I wanted to know then hit the training mode then later online to get expierence. I will for sure head to the platinum forums to read and ask anything I can. Thank you very much for helping its much appreciated ^__^

[Airk]

All right thank you for the information the crazy thing is I was not aware 5B was Jump cancellable lol the more you know.

Well, for reference, there's the Dustloop Wiki, which will fill you in on all sorts of interesting stuff! Also, there's the Frame Data if you're really looking to get down and dirty with what's what.

I will take what you said into consideration in revising my game plan for plat,especially the meaty 5B as my friend who uses Valkenhayn loves to use throw counters anytime I try to start pressure just so I have it right meaty attacks are when you use moves with alot active frames on wake up right? for example something like Mu-12's arrows of heaven or Ragna 5B.

Basically, yes; Technically, I guess a meaty is -any- attack (whether it has a lot of active frames or not) that is timed so that the opponent 'wakes up' into it, with the attack already being active by the time they can act. Meaty 5B for Plat isn't a bad option since it's relatively easy to time, can be done from far enough away that people can't roll past you, and leads into decent options.

Enjoy and good luck!