[CP] Noel Vermillion - Q&A Thread

[legacy49i]

Nothing is a bad idea if it works. You're so closed-minded, you know that? Keep in mind every human opponent is different, and exploiting their personal weaknesses is key.

[LunaKage]

You're killing me man.

[legacy49i]

You're killing me!

If you don't believe me, go on PSN, get a match, finish a combo with Spring Raid, then do a short dash into 6C. Then follow with 2D and you're golden.

If they're smart enough to barrier block, then quit doing it. Simple as that.

[LunaKage]

Or you could actually do the stuff that works consistently, not only on random netplayers, but also legit tournament level opponents.

 

I've tested the Spring Raid ender into anti-air, it never worked for me, because if the opponent forward techs, you just lost your momentum. Noel is terrible against airborne opponents, so purposefully ending your combo so that your opponent can tech in the air is just a bad idea in the first place.

 

Also, just because something works on random netplayers doesn't mean it's good. I get away with doing 5C(Blocked) > Throw Whiff > 5C online, but anyone will tell you that's a terrible idea. You shouldn't be relying on gimmicks, you can use gimmicks every once in awhile to catch an opponent off guard, but relying on them will get you killed against a player that knows what they're doing.

[Sashi]

I end combos in SMP 22C sometimes as a gimmick. :v It usually works if it's a longer set and you train them with 22B.

[LunaKage]

Yeah, it's fine if you do something rarely, and it catches them off guard. You just shouldn't do it as your main bread and butter offense.

[BlackYakuzu94]

You're killing me!

If you don't believe me, go on PSN, get a match, finish a combo with Spring Raid, then do a short dash into 6C. Then follow with 2D and you're golden.

If they're smart enough to barrier block, then quit doing it. Simple as that.

 

So basically your strategy relies solely on what the opponent does instead of anything consistent; the wonders of netplay never cease :V

[legacy49i]

I'll show you a video of me doing everything "bad" and still winning.

If you pay attention to your opponent's habits, you can do "bad" things and win. It doesn't make you a bad player. It just means you know what you can do to win.

[Sashi]

Well, I mean, I've won a good amount of games with just 5B, 623C, and throw as Ragna. It doesn't really prove much.

[legacy49i]

Well, I mean, I've won a good amount of games with just 5B, 623C, and throw as Ragna. It doesn't really prove much.

It proves that you were better than that guy.  If that's all you need to win, then so be it.

[Speakeasy]

So how would one convert a hit in drive pressure into a full combo? Do you just need to know how the properties/starter of each drive move in your pressure and adapt accordingly? For example, I could do d.6D>d.5C>d.6D>d.6B and hit with the last hit, would I be able to do a crouch confirm combo with no more drive attacks?

[LunaKage]

Depends. In order to combo off of d.6B midscreen you need two more drive attacks, or meter.

 

Here are your basic mid drive mixup confirms:

Midscreen

d.6B > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

d.6D > d.5C > d.5B > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

 

Midscreen(Last drive hit)

d.6B > 236C > Rapid > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

d.6D > 236C > Rapid > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

d.6D > 236D(1) > Rapid > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

 

Corner

d.6B > d.5C > d.6D > 236D > 5B > 5C > sj.C > jD > d.5C > d.6A > d.5C > 22B > 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

d.6D > d.6B > d.4D > 214D > 2C/5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Corner(Last Drive Hit) 

d.6D > 236D > 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.5C > d.6A > d.5C > 22B > 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

d.6B > 236C > Rapid > 665C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

[GreeniX]

Anytime you use meter to confirm a drive string, you can also opt to use Spring Raid instead of Chamber Shot. This has the advantage of being a lot harder to drop than 236C RC 665B, by going with, say, 623D RC 5C into superjump C. You give up corner carry by doing this, and I'm unsure where you stand on overall combo damage and if it affects the kinds of optimized enders you can use, but hey, it's there.

[tomi]

how many 22B hits should i be going for to best setup oki? does it change midscreen/corner and per character i'm facing?

[LunaKage]

Midscreen only do one hit, this sets up roll punish/crossunder oki.

 

In the corner, do it until you're about 2.5 character spaces away from your opponent, this sets up roll punish/drive oki, you can also use 662B too, just to maintain advantage without committing to drive mixup.

[TSX]

is there a trick to landing 22C after d.6B? i cant seem to link the two together since the game reads my 22C input as a d.5C 

[LunaKage]

Not at all, if you're getting d.5C, you might be pushing C too late. The game is very lenient on execution of specials, so as long as you do the motion at least somewhat correctly you'll land the move, but if you accidentally press 2C2, you're just gonna get a d.5C. Just take your time.

 

ALSO, another important thing to note is that in order for 22C to happen you need to have knocked your opponent down in the combo. So it only works in combos after you have already used a j.D, or a 3C earlier in the combo.

 

For example:

6D > d.5A > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C WILL NOT WORK

but

6D > d.5A > d.6B > d.5C > d.5B > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C WILL WORK

[TSX]

so 6D>d.6B>22c doesnt work? -hypothetically O.o 

 

that and which moves are like j.D 

[GreeniX]

That's right, it doesn't work, 22B or 22C simply can't come out in those circumstances. Moves that give the needed knockdown would be a j.D that hits an airborne opponent, ground grab, air grab, Muzzle Flitter (214A) and 3C. You don't need to do the 22B or 22C immediately after that move, since as long as you did get that knockdown you can special cancel into those moves anytime during the rest of the combo.

[TSX]

ahhhh okey that makes so much sense... becuz ur technically juggling a grounded opponent... i think noel just got a lot less stressful for me and my fingers LOL ty guys so much :D <3 

[Monarch]

Is there a TK revolver blast combo? I thought I saw Kouya do it one day, but I can't find the video.

[Sashi]

Sure, you can do tkj.236C~2C RC air dash j.D into stuff.

[LunaKage]

Here's a few of my favorites:

 

CH Air Hit TK j.236C > 5A > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

Corner CH Air Hit TK j.236C > 5A > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 66C > 4D > 214D > 66C(2) > 6B > 22

Fatal j.4D > d.6C > 214A > 665B > TK j.236C > 5A > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

[ZerAlizar]

I noticed a lot that when I catch an opponent with 2D and then follow with a d.6B the opponent sometimes falls out before the d.6B connects.. Is there a reason why? I can't recall if it's when the opponent is in mid jump or anything like that, sorry.

[Litherain-XIII]

its partially due to the distance they are hit by 2d in the air when eventually meeting the ground as 2d will accidentally force tech them in some cases as opposed to floating them afterwards. i find it to be the opponent basically being hit under the 2D itself not infront of 2D that causes it to happen. in these cases you can pretty much 2D > d.5A > d.6B to fix that problem.