Zedar90 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Well according to Zedar in Libarary mode the reason why Nu is so attracted to Ragna is because of Saya's soul within her so Yeah. Not that Saya's soul is inside of her, It's because of Saya's soul. Why? I dunno...
kylehyde Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Not that Saya's soul is inside of her, It's because of Saya's soul. Why? I dunno... I'm guessing all it means is that since their copies of Saya naturally her feelings will be theirs as well.
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Not that Saya's soul is inside of her, It's because of Saya's soul. Why? I dunno... Soul Fragment? While Noel is Saya's Soul Jar and Izanami's"vessel" had some fragments as well.
Zedar90 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Soul Fragment? While Noel is Saya's Soul Jar and Izanami's"vessel" had some fragments as well. Could be, it is a possibility that when Saya's mind/soul got broken by Terumi that parts of Saya's soul might have been leaking to the other 3 prime fields when they were created.
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Could be, it is a possibility that when Saya's mind/soul got broken by Terumi that parts of Saya's soul might have been leaking to the other 3 prime fields when they were created. In TvTropes When I was hollow101 Noel,Lambda,and Nu had the trope Soul Fragment for that reason but it seems that Noel carries most if not the full Soul of Saya while in her orginal body had a few fragments. Also they gave Noel Bolverk to keep her from remember who she really is I guess. Edited January 2, 2014 by Toxin45
Shinhwa Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Something must have happened in that time of XBlaze that caused the birth of the Master Unit Amatertasu Like Izanami attacking and many people died. Also answer me this thing How was Ragna,Jin,and Saya created? They were hinted to be artfical so, I would guess they were maid from the DNA's of Sechs and Achit. But Ragna and Jin had the powers of the Azure and Order Like Toya and Akira,So Ragna and Jin's souls are recycled from Toya and Akira's. So what are your thoughts? *FACEPALM*.................................. Now I understand why Chaoschao finds meanigless dribble on this thread to be so frustrating. I always figured that Noel, Lambda, and Nu where their own persons. I just figured since they were copies of Saya they had just retained some of her memories. Never really thought that Saya herself had transfered her soul to any of the clones. Plus Izanami does say at the end that Ragna will never save "her" so I'm guessing that the host body of Izanami is in fact the real Saya with soul and all. Noel, Lambda and Nu were indeed their own persons. It's just that for Noel, she just had too much identical factors to Saya and also that she is an important figure for changing the world. Kagura knows something behind the Trio but it is not revealed what he knows about them, and until CP, other than her looking 99% same in personality and features to Saya, we never thought she could be Saya herself. There are many theories that can pertain to Noel = Saya, but right now we lack information. Only thing we know for sure are: Noel has 99% same identical features to Saya in personality, looks. Noel called Ragna her "brother" (Episode 12 and 16) Noel had mentioned that Terumi was the one who broke her mind and took away her family (Nu mentioned this but through synchronization with Noel, where it was as if Nu was Noel herself in a way as she had gotten access to all her memories and such), which shows that Noel may have remembered all the past as "Saya". The way Izanami says "You cannot save me forever" doesn't really seem to pertain to Saya herself though as she spoke as Izanami, not Saya, where the only thing "Saya's Voice" said was that "Brother is rejecting me again". This is why things are confusing, as it is as if there are two Sayas in the world, where we will have to wait why it's like this in the next game. The idea that Saya somehow transferred herself out of Izanami makes about as much sense as the crack theory that Hazama and Rachel are the parents of the trio and that Hazama does what he does so he can get her attention back from their children. Between the fact that almost anything that points to this theory can be explained by already mentioned details from the series and that Izanami herself said that Saya is still inside the body (Her comments about the "vessel" not liking Hazama and adoring Ragna), I don't see how this can make sense. Besides, it would cheapen the whole "I'm a person too even if I'm a clone" devlopement that Noel's been through, and that's one of the few things that people don't hate her for. Can't really say it is a crack theory as right now we have no other explanation of why Noel is acting like Saya by calling Ragna her brother and actually having memories of Saya's past in details (The past after the Tragedy happened on Celica and the Siblings). Well as you just said, Izanami never pointed out to the "soul", but the "vessel" itself, which is pretty much the body, and as I have said before, if the theory with Lambda is true, then same can apply for Saya too, where memories remain in the vessel/body even without the soul. In TvTropes .......................... Stop right there.............
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 *FACEPALM*.................................. Noel, Lambda and Nu were indeed their own persons. It's just that for Noel, she just had too much identical factors to Saya and also that she is an important figure for changing the world. Kagura knows something behind the Trio but it is not revealed what he knows about them, and until CP, other than her looking 99% same in personality and features to Saya, we never thought she could be Saya herself. There are many theories that can pertain to Noel = Saya, but right now we lack information. Only thing we know for sure are: Noel has 99% same identical features to Saya in personality, looks. Noel called Ragna her "brother" (Episode 12 and 16) Noel had mentioned that Terumi was the one who broke her mind and took away her family (Nu mentioned this but through synchronization with Noel, where it was as if Nu was Noel herself in a way as she had gotten access to all her memories and such), which shows that Noel may have remembered all the past as "Saya". The way Izanami says "You cannot save me forever" doesn't really seem to pertain to Saya herself though as she spoke as Izanami, not Saya, where the only thing "Saya's Voice" said was that "Brother is rejecting me again". This is why things are confusing, as it is as if there are two Sayas in the world, where we will have to wait why it's like this in the next game. Can't really say it is a crack theory as right now we have no other explanation of why Noel is acting like Saya by calling Ragna her brother and actually having memories of Saya's past in details (The past after the Tragedy happened on Celica and the Siblings). Well as you just said, Izanami never pointed out to the "soul", but the "vessel" itself, which is pretty much the body, and as I have said before, if the theory with Lambda is true, then same can apply for Saya too, where memories remain in the vessel/body even without the soul. .......................... Stop right there............. Oh that you don't trust that?
kylehyde Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Does Noel ever call Jin Brother in CP? Or is that just a Ragna only occurance?
Shinhwa Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Oh that you don't trust that? TvTropes is not a reliable source nor in the first place you should be relying on the official sources and not places where people can edit the information................... Does Noel ever call Jin Brother in CP? Or is that just a Ragna only occurance? Only Ragna.
Zedar90 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Does Noel ever call Jin Brother in CP? Or is that just a Ragna only occurance? She does call Ragna for Nii-sama (Saya's way of calling Ragna for brother) during the time that Arakune "assaults" her during her reawakening as Kusanagi. I don't remember if she does it anymore time that that time but it's possible. I've never heard either Noel or Saya calling Jin for brother.
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Shinhwa was it implied that lambda like Nu inherited some of Saya's memories?
Master Of Chaos Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Can't really say it is a crack theory as right now we have no other explanation of why Noel is acting like Saya by calling Ragna her brother and actually having memories of Saya's past in details (The past after the Tragedy happened on Celica and the Siblings). Well as you just said, Izanami never pointed out to the "soul", but the "vessel" itself, which is pretty much the body, and as I have said before, if the theory with Lambda is true, then same can apply for Saya too, where memories remain in the vessel/body even without the soul. Noel's been doing things like that since CT (Spacing out and talking to Ragna like she's Saya and not remembering it afterword). And again, it can be explained by the fact that she's an incomplete Murakumo Unit who still had Saya's memories in her subconscious. That doesn't mean she has Saya's soul. Nu's soul was in Lambda and never left until she died, though. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but I'm not sure what you're tying to say here. In any case, there's still no sufficient (or rather, any) explanation for why and how Saya's soul moved to Noel, and I'm pretty sure there would have to be some reason for that to occur. @Toxin: CT Confirmed that Nu has at least some of Saya's memories.
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Noel's been doing things like that since CT (Spacing out and talking to Ragna like she's Saya and not remembering it afterword). And again, it can be explained by the fact that she's an incomplete Murakumo Unit who still had Saya's memories in her subconscious. That doesn't mean she has Saya's soul. Nu's soul was in Lambda and never left until she died, though. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but I'm not sure what you're tying to say here. In any case, there's still no sufficient (or rather, any) explanation for why and how Saya's soul moved to Noel, and I'm pretty sure there would have to be some reason for that to occur. @Toxin: CT Confirmed that Nu has at least some of Saya's memories. It was probably Bolverk repressing her memories dude.
Shinhwa Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Shinhwa was it implied that lambda like Nu inherited some of Saya's memories? No she did not. Only thing with Lambda was that she was in Ibukido during the experiment that caused her death where she was begging for help, then being rescued by Tager then transferred to Kokonoe's lab, where after the event of CT, Nu's soul is implemented to Lambda's body, then after she awakens, she acts as if she was truly Lambda where Kokonoe is forced to erase her entire memories then all memories within Lambda at the current state get erased, where Nu calls out for Ragna as her memories get erased. Pretty much saying, other than the fact Lambda had a similar way of talking like Noel, we don't know anything about the original Lambda. We only know the Lambda that had Nu's soul in it.
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 No she did not. Only thing with Lambda was that she was in Ibukido during the experiment that caused her death where she was begging for help, then being rescued by Tager then transferred to Kokonoe's lab, where after the event of CT, Nu's soul is implemented to Lambda's body, then after she awakens, she acts as if she was truly Lambda where Kokonoe is forced to erase her entire memories then all memories within Lambda at the current state get erased, where Nu calls out for Ragna as her memories get erased. Pretty much saying, other than the fact Lambda had a similar way of talking like Noel, we don't know anything about the original Lambda. We only know the Lambda that had Nu's soul in it. I guess your right so did you know why Ragna,Jin,and Saya are related to Achit,Sechs,Toya,and Akira. I know this is a pain but they seem to share some similarities so i'm just asking.
kylehyde Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I guess your right so did you know why Ragna,Jin,and Saya are related to Achit,Sechs,Toya,and Akira. I know this is a pain but they seem to share some similarities so i'm just asking. Similarities are just similarities. Until Mori says otherwise we don't know. Edited January 2, 2014 by kylehyde
Shinhwa Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Noel's been doing things like that since CT (Spacing out and talking to Ragna like she's Saya and not remembering it afterword). And again, it can be explained by the fact that she's an incomplete Murakumo Unit who still had Saya's memories in her subconscious. That doesn't mean she has Saya's soul. At the time though, she was acting in similar way to Saya but that was in terms of personality and character traits only. However after CP, a development occurred where Noel could be Saya due to her calling Ragna her brother. Now that I do think about it, it is a possibility that Noel doesn't possess the soul of Saya and only has memories due to her subconsciousness, but we still don't know. It's either a soul transfer or soul copy or memory copy, or there could be a factor of a paradox but we don't know. I would say it's one of the four. Nu's soul was in Lambda and never left until she died, though. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but I'm not sure what you're tying to say here. In any case, there's still no sufficient (or rather, any) explanation for why and how Saya's soul moved to Noel, and I'm pretty sure there would have to be some reason for that to occur. I am talking about before Nu's soul entered Lambda. Just play or re-watch the Story Mode for Lambda if you are unsure (Not sure if English dub/subbing translated right though...), but as you know, the original Lambda had died during the harsh experiment, where the body was just an empty vessel, which was why Kokonoe had salvaged Nu's soul and implemented it in Lambda's body. Then after Nu in Lambda awakened, she started acting out in a panic while remembering the events of what happened in Lambda's experiment, where of course since that was Lambda's event and not Nu's event, normally that memory shouldn't be a concern, but Nu was acting as if she was Lambda herself, going "HATE HATE HATE" "Why are you doing this to me" and such which forced Kokonoe to erase all memories within Lambda (which means since Nu's soul was in Lambda's body, she pretty much erased memories from both factors except she could not fully erase the memories within the soul and only sealed it kind of).
Toxin45 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) So what's gonna Happen to hakumen in the fourth game? Is he going to be a super mode/true form to Jin? Ahonther reason why Saya is Noel is that Noel unlike Nu can access a base fighting form. Plus Noel Vermillion could be saya and Mu-12 is the murakumo unit form of Noel like a super mode. Edited January 3, 2014 by Toxin45
churchblue Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Mu-12 will always be awesome. The fourth game will probably come out next year. Right now, CP extensions will be made. New characters will be add in the extensions like always.
Shinhwa Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 So what's gonna Happen to hakumen in the fourth game? Is he going to be a super mode/true form to Jin? Ahonther reason why Saya is Noel is that Noel unlike Nu can access a base fighting form. Plus Noel Vermillion could be saya and Mu-12 is the murakumo unit form of Noel like a super mode. ...................................... Mu-12 will always be awesome. The fourth game will probably come out next year. Right now, CP extensions will be made. New characters will be add in the extensions like always. Only characters I can think of being added into Extended version are Nine/Phantom or Jubei... Since they did fight and such in the Story Mode.
Toxin45 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Only characters I can think of being added into Extended version are Nine/Phantom or Jubei... Since they did fight and such in the Story Mode. What about the Imperator? What I am trying to say is that unlike the other Murakumo units Mu-12 has two forms one is Noel her "normal" self and Mu-12 being her true form adds the theroy of Noel being Saya. Edited January 3, 2014 by Toxin45
Shinhwa Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 What about the Imperator? Imperator barely fought or even revealed her abilities except using Murakumo Unit-like attacks during the Take-Mikazuchi battle. She has to actually "fight" full throttle like any other characters if she is to become a playable character. Anyhow this isn't the thread to talk about which character should become playable or whatnot.
Toxin45 Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Imperator barely fought or even revealed her abilities except using Murakumo Unit-like attacks during the Take-Mikazuchi battle. She has to actually "fight" full throttle like any other characters if she is to become a playable character. Anyhow this isn't the thread to talk about which character should become playable or whatnot. Hey I just ask if Jin and Hakumen became one that's it.
Shinhwa Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Hey I just ask if Jin and Hakumen became one that's it. That's not why........
kylehyde Posted January 3, 2014 Posted January 3, 2014 Toxin your asking if Hakumen is going to become a true from to Jin? Last time I checked Hakumen is Jin and has always been stronger than Jin. So yes, Hakumen will be Jin's super mode.
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