[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Verimeloni]

The absorbing better start at frame 1, otherwise people could meaty Az over their fireball okis.

Absorbing at frame 1 would make it possible to Growler stuff on reaction.

[Verimeloni]

Sry for dpost, quoting Sourenga:

 

Azrael
- "Growler Field" now has only projectile invincibility. In return, the move's hitbox is now active a lot more earlier
- You can also cancel "Growler Field" into "Phalanx Cannon" immidiately after absorbing a projectile
- "Leopard Launcher" now causes wall stick
- During "Valiant Chaser" both ground and aerial moves cause wall stick

[Leopold]

NOOOOO!!! These nerfs are totally uncalled for. No need for this!!

 

Is that Leopard change a buff or a nerf? I cant tell. It seems like a huge nerf for middle screen play but it could possibly be a buff for corner.

Could someone elaborate this please?

[LegendaryRath]

I'm willing to bet that the wallstick is for the corner only, similar to hakumen's j.C. It's probably supposed to help with corner combos.

[Leopold]

So that means a lot of midscreen combos involving some sort of rapid are going down the drain

[LegendaryRath]

So that means a lot of midscreen combos involving some sort of rapid are going down the drain

We literally know nothing more than "Leapard Launcher causes wallstick." Nothing more than that. It doesn't necessarily mean that something that works now wont work later, or that something similar or better wont be possible. Please don't jump to conclusions about a change-list that we don't know everything about and is most-definitely not finalized yet.

 

Long story short, it's too early to freak out about nerfs/buffs/etc. I'm not seeing it yet, but if I end up noticing a bunch of people complaining about something as pointless as this, I wont feel bad about deleting some posts.

[ThatHiroGuy]

NOOOOO!!! These nerfs are totally uncalled for. No need for this!!

 

Is that Leopard change a buff or a nerf? I cant tell. It seems like a huge nerf for middle screen play but it could possibly be a buff for corner.

Could someone elaborate this please?

 

Sort of a nerf, but not entirely. It all depends on how long the wall stick is, and if it works similarly to the one that happens during Valiant. Either way, it sounds like that eliminates TCL>Rapid>Valiant/IAD combos. Maybe they're thinking of changing the properties of other moves, and what he can cancel into/out of for this very purpose. Though, I'm theory crafting... 

 

I did think of some other reasons they'd do this, but... Are there any characters that can cause a wall-stick outside of the corner? Makoto can, right?

[Verimeloni]

I'm pretty sure Leopard only wallsticks in the corner, have to wait for lokes for confirmation.

[zankoku]

How the hell would wallstick even happen midscreen? Attacks that normally have wallstick property through Valiant just cause the opponent to continue spinning against the edge of the screen if the wall isn't there.

 

And to be completely honest, I probably mashed backdash five times as much as I mashed Growler if I really wanted out.

[RWA Announcer]

Well....even if this in only a partial list and 100% NOT final due to still being in flux via location tests, I wasn't expecting this at all.  All I wanted was a visual gauge for Phalanx Stocks and was bracing myself for some BIG nerfs given all of the complaining and S Tier talk he's been generating, but this actually looks pretty sweet.  Loosing the "DP"/ strike invincibility of Growler Field could hurt a bit, but as of now, we have an unchanged Backdash, and it seems like Growler's  going to actually have more utility overall, especially against the Murakumo Trio, since Lambda could give him as much trouble as Nu does now.  That being said, I WON'T be getting excited until we see more.  Seeing how drastically Elizabeth changed in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax from the loctests to the final build, just reinforced my belief to temper my hype because EVERYTHING is Subject To Change here.  Glad to see people like LegendaryRath keeping a level head right now.

[RWA Announcer]

Know that I'm back home and have my wits about me, I'd like some clarification on something, Kiinkuli.  We you say Kansai players think he can deal with "Fuzzy Jump BS," are we talking about traditional Fuzzy Guard setups here in the traditional sense or something else?  Would you mind giving an example of something like that please?

[natearistata]

Worst case scenario for that change would be that it only causes wallstick in corner, but doesn't do anything mid-screen, i.e. they just get sent flying across the screen and you reset neutral for ending in TCL. I really, really hope that's not the case, because this would remove a lot of things, including the rapid combos and mid-screen sentinel dump oki.

 

However, it's also entirely possible that it'll act exactly as it does now mid-screen, and just stick in the corner to allow the grounded TCL's to be followed up with a 5B > aerial path, since before they were too low to follow up on. It's very vague wording, so will just have to wait and see.

 

Still, OD guard cancel is kind of trumping all the character-specific changes at the moment and I truly hope it doesn't stay.

[Kinkuli]

Well i guess i am going to the loke after all. I'll see if i can find out azrael stuff.

 

If universe suddenly comes to an end then i was very shocked with azrael. He's probably gonna be fiiiine though so not that worried.

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks for checking it out Kinkuli!

 

https://twitter.com/hc0519/status/497219206400593920

https://twitter.com/hc0519/status/497219324109541376

 

Ho-Chan tweeting about the loketest:

"Azrael

- super close after 236A

- rekka wall-stick

- DP cancellable into projectile

- DP is only proj invul

- 2C has much longer recovery

- JD, J2D on hit put opponent far away

- 6B doesn’t put opponent into air"

[RWA Announcer]

Well, I know this is all in flux, but depending upon how bad JD and J2D pushback is, compared to the improved travel distance of Gustav Buster, this might not be so bad, especially with Carl, Kokonoe, and Litchi taking some seemingly big hits.  I hate that they're away so many combos though, both from us and everyone else.  But we'll see how the dice roll in the end I suppose.

[RentalBlackout]

I personally think the Gustaf change is great. In 1.1, if you manage to get Taokaka to normal block a Gustaf, even though her 2A has 6 frame start up, your 5A will lose to her every time due to the distance, which is absolutely horrible. The growler change makes people playing the projectile game think twice and well, with Azrael's flawed neutral, pretty sure this is welcome. Doesn't change much though for footsie matchups, but Gustaf should help us a little.

Losing a dp is pretty...Iunno I'm pretty alright with it. Our dp was, in hindsight, quite a horrible dp in terms of hitboxes. It almost always trades with hits as well. Really easy to OS too. Sometimes the invul bites me in the back when I want to absorb a projectile and instead I'm just left in recovery for the opponent to punish me. Guess we all just need to block better on wake up now. Was laughing somewhat in the News thread when people complained about random invul/guardpoints in our moves, as though we could use those on wake up. Sure, wake up Sentinel catches people at times but it's really gimmicky.

2C nerf is not really a big deal in neutral since when I do whiff an attempted 2C anti air due to a bait, I get punished anyway. However I can see how it would be bad during certain oki attempts, 2C catches rolls and late tech after certain knockdowns, whiffing that will make it even more unsafe than it already was. Probably not a big deal I guess, since that's more of a hard read situation.

 

That 6B change, no idea what to make of it, maybe more consistency in the valiant corner combo? I guess it doesn't launch people who get hit by it on the ground either(which would make it unsafe on hit? lol), though I hardly see people use the move anyway since it's so awkward. Probably more to the change.

The only thing I'm worried about is how far away does j.D/j.2D knocks back during combos, and also what the Leopard Launcher change really means. It could mean the death of j.D RC j.C.

 

If Leopard doesn't wall bounce midscreen that sucks. Else Azrael's fine.

[Kinkuli]

So EARLY IMPRESSIONS FROM 9 ROUNDS I PLAYED

 

Leopard still bounces midscreen so it is the old one midscreen and new one in corner. RC dash Valiant works, RC IAD jC 6A etc. still probably works. Didn't manage to get it connect but i am rusty so i most likely just fucked up. Valiant combos seem the same. They did something to the charger state which makes 6C route look different and maybe not even work. 5C x N one works as usual. 

 

2C got hit HAAAAAAAARD. Can't combo with 2C 2B anymore in corner. Still goes easily to 6D/3D. Might be a lot worse as an AA (can't just throw it out like you can now maybe?) Also can't 2C 2C 2C in corner ;(. 

 

Absorb to phalanx might be the coolest thing ever. You might really be able to punish some projectiles on reaction with it. It seemed to have a lot of potential for zoner matchups. 

 

jD and j2D blowback blows. Opponent ends at 6D/3D range but it's nothing to write home about. Might make corner oki better though? I hope they will change this one tbh. RC routes from jD would be gone and Az would not get oki from jD/j2D anymore which would be stupid imo. Though ragna didn't seem to get oki from DP followups either so maybe they wanna change this all around?

 

Didn't test out 6B. Will probably suck or they have something else in mind for it.

 

His routes seems kinda same. Midscreen could not get 3D connect in the usual places so you might need to end combos in those cases with TC valiant/hornet instead for oki. Other wise seems the same midscreen.

 

Corner got more interesting! Non WP combos will probably be like 5BB TCL 5B 2C 5B Aerial. Seems to be and hard link though! With WP something like 5B 2C 6D/3D 5C TCL 6A 5B aerial might work. 5D will probably go to 5B 5BB TCL 5B aerial or TCL 5B 2C 5B aerial etc. Throw combos are the same i think. Crossup TCL is more scary in corner now too since it wall sticks there. 

 

Gustaf seemed cool. Still felt to be plus on block and left close. Not sure if it leaves close from greater distance since i didn't manage to test it but maybe?

 

Might have missed something but i'll read out my notes again and edit stuff in if i missed something.

[Verimeloni]

2C nerf is bullshit

[RentalBlackout]

TCL in the corner makes up for 2C>2B in the corner I suppose, but 3C>22C>2C>2B is gone now...mixed feelings about this. Not to mention from the way you put it, 2C seems way worse than I imagined in neutral. j.D/j.2D change sounds pretty sad too.

At least TCL still wallbounces mid screen. Hopefully they plan something else with 6B, because with that being awful now, we have no safe head invul anti-airs.

 

Gustaf and phalanx change sounds great though.

 

All in all I guess Az got nerfed, but not as badly as Valkenhayn or other people. Suffice to say, Azreal didn't get nerfed as badly as I imagined, but he still got hit somewhat. This loketest it seems like almost everybody got nerfed however, so relatively I guess Azrael is fine?

Thanks for the heads up Kinkuli.

[Kinkuli]

You can still do the 22C 5B TCL route so i don't really mind 2C 2B in that scenario. In neutral 2C it might be the case that you just can't throw it out anymore to hit people out of stuff since whiff is free punish or free pressure most likely. 

 

jD/j2D changes seem odd but like i said, they might have something in mind for oki for every char so i dunno.

[RentalBlackout]

Hmm yeah that's true I guess, it's more of the 2C being extremely unsafe now. Reason I like 2C>2B>TCL a lot is because on certain chars you can do Dash 5A Aerial like Rath found out, I guess it's still possible with 5A/5B TCL but stricter timing.

How long exactly is the TCL wallstick? If you get a late wallstick, say, 3/4 screen into corner, can you combo into valiant or something?

Also the OD guard cancel shit seems kinda scary especially with Azrael having lots of holes in his strings. Then again we also have access to it, but what are our options after ODGC, OD stinger? Iunno.

[Kinkuli]

Wall stick to valiant might work actually. You have enough time to combo like dump 5B TCL 6A rather easily. 

 

OD Scud might be a thing depending on how the OD version of it works. 

[Takanub]

Has anyone tested if grower still gives full invuln on successful absorption or did they take all but projectile out of it even on absorb?

 

Oh and has anyone tested if j.d causes wall stick in valiant charger state. That sounds like an easy double weakpoint ender off valiant combos if it does.

[Kinkuli]

Didn't test that on growler actually but i would assume that the absorb is still the same.

 

Also didn't test the jD thing. It might actually work now. That would be really cool actually!

[Warhound]

Well, it sounds like, overall we are sacrificing some of our rushdown, to possibly be able to fight against zoners more effectively. Doesn't sound too bad so far.