[CP] Relius Clover vs Kokonoe

[TD]

Discuss the Kokonoe matchup here.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her Tools

In The Air: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Offense

Your Offense:

Her Offense:

Defense

Your Defense:

Her Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets

Match Summary

[NecroTheReaper]

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

At this range, if she's grounded, you can ruin her graviton setup with 22C or 214C. Arial she can send out one or the other easily, but it still takes a bit of time to get it out. Use 214A into j.D moves to try and catch her while staying away from her if she gets the fireball out. You don't wanna block that fireball. A minor thing to note is the tager beam, but if you barrier or just regular block, unless you're almost dead, is punishable.

Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

This is where I feel we dominate her. All of her normals have short reach except for her 3C. You do have to worry about running into random traps though, don't give her a free oki setup. Your 5B beats just about everything else if appropriately spaced.

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her Tools

She has no reversal really. This range is still comfortable to us, but now she also has access to her faster moves. Her 5B has a few frames of foot invul I believe, so be careful with 2A/B. Her A trap is also relatively quick if you're not paying attention, but this seems risky for her if you just slap A on her face.

In The Air: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Here, without ignis she has better air to air. Her j.B, j.C, and j.2C all have a good range. With ignis, I think j.C is projectile property so j.D can cleave through it. Against her j.B and j.2C, one's fast with decent range and the other is slower with long range. Always be weary of fireballs and gravitons though.

Offense

Your Offense:

Against her, she lacks a reversal, but has a good, moderately fast anti air that can be charged for more head invul. I guess she doesn't completely lack a reversal, with Relius' lockdown, there shouldn't be too much worry over her fireball super. Its got a really short range, but its still something to watch out for. From what I've seen, none of our combos were screwed on her hitbox, so everything is still available to us. Also, not character specific but hers is a tager move, watch out for her astral if she can use it xD

Her Offense:

I'd think of dealing with her offense close to dealing with a combo of litchi and Rachel. She needs to set up, but she really only gets one use out of it per string. Her 2C is +, but also has a slow start up. She has an instant overhead j.C, but unless there's a graviton on you or 50 meter, she can't combo with it. Do not, I repeat, do NOT get hit by 2C. With 25 heat, you'll lose half your health and be put in the corner. If you see her activate her graviton to save her ass, that's your time to escape. Also, she bas an unblockable setup in the corner with her black hole super, and depending how they're spaced can be either inescapable or not. If they're too close, forward roll. If they're too far, as weird as it sounds, doll punch super. Alot of her combos can go into this, and her 22B oki is op xD. She also has corner crossup powers, so don't forget about the threat of crossups.

Defense

Your Defense:

Ley won't work here that much. Backdashes are dangerous if there's a graviton there, so really you just have to wait for her to cover her ass with a graviton activation. She's got good mixup, and crossup capability, so learn to block? xD and there's always the handy CA. With the exception of a charged 6B and a 2C from Koko, all her moves are minus on block. Learn to use this. UB setup from her can't be beaten if its done right, so just be patient.

Her Defense:

She's dead. Unless you give her an obvious anti air situation, she has to burst/CA/something to get out. Her 5A is fast, but REALLY short ranged, and her 2A is slow. Her 5B is also moderately quick, but I don't know if she'd use it to poke out of pressure.

Gimmicks and Resets

Use corner 6C into 236D/j.C setup. Not really a lot, but still. Don't do ot every time since a delayed forward beats it, but that's only one viable option.

Match Summary

I feel like its another ever so dreaded momentum match, mostly on her part. You stop her from setting up and getting in, she's squishy as hell.

This is just my thoughts btw, all come to correct me so I don't think about this incorrectly xD

[NecroTheReaper]

Felt like this was important enough to double post for this matchup. Its impractical, but Relius's only way to not eat an UB combo. The UB will still hit you, but Koko cant combo off it. If you have your burst, time OD to where the 22B wiffs, but just before you see the super flash before she does black hole, then do OD doll punch super. Your superflash should start right before hers and she'll be forced into blocking past the duration of you falling from the sky. Sometimes the superflash will start after hers, and its really tricky to time, but I feel like if its that last match and she's tryin to finish you off with an UB, this could save your ass.

[NecroTheReaper]

If its of any importance, since her reversal has that damn guaranteed projectile BS, midscreen you can punish as you would any reversal since usually 3C CH>j.C gets out of the fireball range. Corner however, I've found it necessary to do 3C CH (really close)>214C>ley>pick up combo. You have to really time ley so that you don't get clipped on the last few active frames, but it still leads to a good 4k damage corner combo at least.

[Elochai]

Does Relius have any combo routes to avoid the super fireball?

[NecroTheReaper]

That's what I posted in my post just above yours xD block/ley first hit, micro-dash 3C>214C>ley the super ball and pick up the combo. Midscreen just doin 3C>j.9C clears fireball easily.

Are you comin back to the dark side Elo? xD

[Angry Guy of DE]

It should be common knowledge but Koko's hit-box on her slide forces the corner combo to be 2B to pick her up instead of 5B. 2B is slower, has less range, and does less damage (the range and speed is more annoying) so just take a few minutes to make sure you know to do that in this match-up.

Until the upcoming patch be mindful of her back-dash. The amount of invincibility and distance it makes give her another meter-less option on wakeup. Where her teleport can be baited with staggered strings the back-dash can give her an escape as even catching her with a 5B or 6D will often put her airborne and her distance makes converting from it difficult.

[Poultrygeist]

Was a better way to escape black hole ever found?  The best I could come up with was the simple OD/crush trigger or pop astral at the right time if you can.  I understand that this will be a non issue soon enough but I really don't like the idea of having to trade against her with Duo Bios <__<  

 

EDIT: Crush trigger?  Blah I meant dead angle.  Too tired.

[NecroTheReaper]

Honestly, my method is really sketchy. There's no way for Relius to avoid a proper black hole setup because he lacks a tool capable of doing so, even with heat. Most characters have one of 2 things to deal with it: a character specific move that is projectile invul or GP, or a DD with enough movement and invul to blow past the black hole before the invul ends (daifunka, amane/terumi sideswap super). All of our defense options have a max of 31f of invul (ley) and none of them move us. Black hole has 200+ active frames, and Koko is invul during all of it cept recovery. No amount of CA's, vinums, or led leys will stop it from hitting you.

[Myoro]

As of recent Koko's j.A in particular has been the source of my crushing losses. It beats everything I've tried to throw at it, how does one deal with it?

[NecroTheReaper]

If you're in the air, all hope is lost. If you're on tbe ground, hope is almost lost, but at least we have 2C if we're lucky. Typically I try to make her zone so we can counter-zone with ignis and maybe score a j.xD.

[Iron Savior]

I don't know about other Kokos, but whenever a Relius uses Duo Bios on me, i like to escape with a teleport
I imagine its really unsafe, but it's something to look out for the next time you are fighting one, you might want to stand idly by ready to punish one
Its easier to escape with a teleport than with other reversals, since the teleport can go trough Ignis if shes close
Dunno it it's common knowledge, i haven't fought a lot of Kokos as Relius
 

[Poultrygeist]

I don't know what Relius is gonna pop a random Duo Bios out of the blue like that.  Especially against Kokonoe who has like a million ways to disrespect it.