[CP] Ragna vs Kokonoe

[Fistmaster049]

Discuss the vs Kokonoe matchup here

For the love of god don't let her get away

Current matchup ratio prediction: 5.5:4.5 in her favour

Overview

Despite her superior of most of anything, this matchup isn't actually as bad some people think.

If Ragna uses his poking game to its finest and is above all careful, it not all that bad

Neutral:

Her air normals will usually beat yours, caution.

Letting her get away is a bad idea, letting her set up gravitons will make your job much harder. At that point predictions will be key.

Offense:

2A seems really good at poking her out of her teleport especially in corners (the teleport itself being 33 frames, inv from frame 1 till 24) bait it, let autocorrect be your guide.

Slow normals won't help much if used often.

Applying Oki seems difficult in general, especially if she has meter

Defense:

Ice gun is slow, can be C IDed on startup but if not comfortable with doing it on the startup, instant barrier is next best choice to avoid chip and more pushback (worthwhile punish after IB is still in works)

Instant blocking wrench seems easy due to very see-able windup.

Her 6B into Ice beats CS/DBD and Astral (Instant block or not)

Ragna does have a way of getting out of the black hole unblockable set up. As soon as you get up after she sets it up: OD - Carnage scissors, it takes the burst icon and 50 meter but its better than nothing. It takes advantage of the black hole's hitbox only being the farther away orb, the one next to Kokonoe is harmless. (video showing how http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9319qyJGcWw)

Punishes:

Air rocket hammer won't cross up in the corner, pretty safe to 6A it.

Instant block Rocket punch to net yourself a free 5A > 5B punish.

Blocking Super ball will push you too far back for 2C punish however CH 5C is possible

Barrier blocking Ice Gun can lead to a sweet FC BS punish

just barrier block(instant if possible) so that you get pushed back out of it's hitbox, then do a grounded Blood Scythe(214D) as soon as you come out of blockstun.

Feel free to update as new info is collected.

I'll update the this post as new info is found

Edited November 13, 2013 by Fistmaster049

[Fistmaster049]

Mostly posted because there wasn't one yet, Mods please feel free to take over and make it look neater

Generally this matchup seems bad...very bad

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on it

My opinion? she seems to be able to keep us out at almost anytime

Her air rocket normal seems to beat j.C

Her magnets make rushing her down annoying

and dat cat person damage versus our tiny HP bar = not good

However if there does seem to be one ray of hope in that our footies game with 5B/2B/5C seems to be very useful here

[Fistmaster049]

2A seems to be very good at punishing the teleport

more as it comes...

[Callisto]

It's not as bad as it seems, especially midscreen, she's strong but not invincible. As you said, 2A for teleports, especially in the corner you have to be really careful to not throw out something slow. Her overhead's really slow with the obvious wrench windup, easy to IB then you can CID out of ice beam/rocket punch if they try to follow up with it, or if it's rocket punch just IB that and punish with 5A > 5B etc.

Air rocket hammer won't cross up in the corner, so it's safe to 6A it. Ice beam is really slow, if you aren't comfortable just doing CID on startup you can instant barrier to get pushed away to avoid the chip/losing a ton of barrier...I am trying to figure out a punish off off instant barrier on it, it keeps going pretty long so you may be able to just neutral jump > IAD over her head and attack from the back.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Callisto

[Fistmaster049]

Thanks, OP updated, keep it coming

[Callisto]

The timing is a bit more strict after instant barrier vs. ice beam than I thought, looks like if you get high enough to IAD without risking touching the ice, they have enough time to recover and duck IAD j.C; I didn't get to test as much stuff as I wanted last night, but I believe you can do a slight neutral jump into Gauntlet Hades to punish, doing a grounded one will run you into the ice though. Ice also beats CS/DbD/astral reversals in the gap between IB'd second hit of 6B and ice startup.

Trying to apply oki on her kinda sucks, you can 2A for teleport baits but if she has meter then you're the one in the mixup after you get a knockdown on if she will teleport/roll/fireball super on wakeup, you're kinda best off just throwing out an early 2A then sitting there to see what the do. I believe blocking fireball super pushes you back too far to CH 2C > CT, but you can CH 5C > 6C and go from there.

[Fistmaster049]

Updated, Thanks again, Keep it up

#DownwithKoko

[Callisto]

:D

[Fistmaster049]

OH SHIZ, This is great :D

Doesn't look like you even need to instant barrier either, every Ragna needs to see this, its Gold

Edited November 13, 2013 by Fistmaster049

[Callisto]

I messed with a bunch of stuff last night...on the 6B xx rocket punch string, I believe it's actually a true block string if you normal/barrier block, so you need to IB the two 6B hits in order to create a gap to go back to neutral and IB the rocket punch. That said, I think rocket punch can still be punished by 5A even on a normal non-barrier block within a single frame window.

I also tested lots of punishes for fireball super, assuming they do the one that stays close to them, you're actually pretty limited on your punish options because the heavier hitting stuff leaves you standing there when the fireball comes down. CH5C > 6C was keeping me in the path of the projectile pretty often, it recovers fast enough that I couldn't dash up and CH 2C. Doing 5B 5C HF moves you forward enough to be out of the fireball's path, maybe can punish with 5B > 5C > HF(RC) > 6C > GH > J.C J.D(JC) > J.C J.D > DID.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Callisto

[Loli Bacon]

As a Kokonoe player, I must say I don't understand why Kokonoe would EVER use 236C (ice spray) after overhead. Her 6B is -2 on block, and can be cancelled (instead) into 22A, which is + on block. Try testing getting out of 6B 22A instead. I'm sure you can DP the space between the two, but be wary because if she just blocks, you're eating a CH combo.

[Callisto]

Thanks, it was something I was having used against me, but that was also day 1. I'll try that string out.