[P4AU] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

[LegendaryRath]

The Shadow Mitsuru Rampage combo Die-Chan seems to be doing everytime looks very flashy, though I am saddened it's only 5 k damage, while Chie's rampage combo seems to do around 8 k damage.

5K seems like it's plenty in my opinion. If you consider that meter carries over between rounds for shadow characters and also that we can use marin karin, then it's likely that good shadow mitsurus could make use of shadow berserk a lot. My main concerns with shadow berserk are with the fact that you can burst it on reaction (so I've been hearing). It would be really easy to just save your burst for when shadow characters pop shadow berserk.

Did the shadow versions have increased or decreased damage? Because in either cases it's bad for us. If decreased, it meanse Chie will do hella broken damage. And if increased it means Mitsuru's damage output is even lower than expected.

Shadow characters only do 80% of the damage normal characters do.

I did noticed Die-chan always crosses the opponent up after the Mabufudyne trigger. I assume it is required to keep the opponent save for the kick between her aned the Mabufudyne, and the fact that Mitsuru seems more like a midscreen character now than a corner character. I hope this is not true, or her Coup Droit and hold, and her new auto-combo, will have lost a huge deal of their effectiveness and purpose.

My guess is that it's necessary for the combo or at least makes it easier to execute. DIE-chan's too smart to do something like that for no reason.

I don't really see how mitsuru would be more of a midscreen character now. She seems to get pretty good damage in the corner still and her corner carry still seems pretty good.

I also noticed that Mitsuru's aerial hold now flips our opponent to the other side. As well as that her 5DD now flicks your opponent into the air, having it be a requirement to follow up with a 2DD, do you want to chain it.

ya ... I'm disappointed that we don't get the choice of which direction we send our opponents with air grabs. 5DD's new arc doesn't bother me. After a few days I'm sure we'll all get used to the new combo route.

So far I can't say if I'm pleased with all the changes or not. Shadow Mitsuru looks amazing, and the new auto combo looks cool. The ''ice Coup Droit'' looks unnecessary and useless. Who's not going to see that coming? But the new mixup possibilities looks amazing. I am not pleased with how insanely her damage output has been decreased. Yes, it was a lot, but that was because her combos don't contain too many hits. And Chie could do wayyyy more damage, and quite some other characters. But it shouldn't have been reduced this much.

Overall I have to say that I am exceptionally pleased with how Mitsuru looks in this version. As a whole, it is clear that we do less damage this time around, but even then, it doesn't seem like it's much worse. I've seen Mitsuru's do 3.2k off an anti-air 2B in this version, where we'd get 3.3k in p4a. Our corner damage seems pretty much the same, except now we just need to spend 25 meter to get it started. At first I was really concerned about how we would get damage in this version, but players like DIE-chan are slowly figuring it all out. The combos people come up with can only get better

As far as everything else goes, I'm really happy with it. Our pressure is much better now that max range 5A will hit all characters crouching now, instead of going over their heads. We can feint 5B, dash cancel it too, in addition to forward and backdash canceling 5C. 5A gained a backdash. Nearly all our A and B normals are short hop cancel-able. In general I feel like our pressure got a lot better and safer.

My overal idea is that she's going to fall short in the game due to her strongly below average damage... I mean, even non-fire boosted Yukiko does more damage. What's up with that?

She can probably get good damage, and I already have a lot of ideas as to what kinds of combos are possible. It's just that Japanese players are reluctant to experiment when they are playing in tournaments. They'll do what they know, even if it's just auto combos.

I cannot wait to main Mitsuru and Shadow Mitsuru in the sequel though. I hope Europe doesn't get it so delayed this time around.

..

[AchedSphinx]

Mitsuru's damage doesn't really matter a whole lot. What matters is that she still has superior range to everyone in the game and now her pressure has more options. I like Mitsuru a lot in this new version simply because of the number of safe options they gave her.

[LegendaryRath]

I can't even count the number of times recently where I did something and thought "If this was suplex, This would be so much more stupid." That new pressure is going to be so wonderful.

[OutlawVinegar]

I also noticed that Mitsuru's aerial hold now flips our opponent to the other side. As well as that her 5DD now flicks your opponent into the air, having it be a requirement to follow up with a 2DD, do you want to chain it.

ya ... I'm disappointed that we don't get the choice of which direction we send our opponents with air grabs. 5DD's new arc doesn't bother me. After a few days I'm sure we'll all get used to the new combo route.

...Just... do a regular airthrow or a backwards airthrow, based on where you want the opponent to go. Chie's ground throw swaps sides, and it's never been an issue for her.

[Reako]

I'd have to try the new Mitsuru myself firsthand to say if I actually like the changes or not. But I'm sure I will. And I will stay faithful to my Mitsuru, Shadow version included, because it just looks badass. Mitsuru was my first character to choose and my last, I'll be damned. Thank you for the quick reply. It seems dustloop does contain a few active people.

[LegendaryRath]

I'd have to try the new Mitsuru myself firsthand to say if I actually like the changes or not. But I'm sure I will. And I will stay faithful to my Mitsuru, Shadow version included, because it just looks badass. Mitsuru was my first character to choose and my last, I'll be damned. Thank you for the quick reply. It seems dustloop does contain a few active people.

No problem.

Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I'll update the video thread again. It looks like there's some footage I overlooked.

[Reako]

No problem.

Sometime tonight or tomorrow, I'll update the video thread again. It looks like there's some footage I overlooked.

There is new footage being uploaded to Youtube almost daily, if not actually daily. I could look trough this footage to notify you of any Mitsuru content, if you'd find the need for it.

Anywho, Mitsuru's new mix up possibillities so far seem to make it a lot easier to catch jumpy opponents off guard, even those that know when to jump evade her 5As. 5C seems to have become a much better utility than before, considering the dash cancels.

My biggest problem with characters such as Aigis is that they tend to jump a lot and use j.C against Mitsuru, which doesn't really leave her with as much options, considering the limited range on her 2B, bait wise and the high/low profiling of her 5A. Aigis' j.C has superiour range as well, making it very hard to hit them, unless you want to go j.A, but that will only get you so far.

I play a high level (IMO) Aigis a lot, and considering we play together so much, our play styles are completely familiar to the other, thus we have endlessly found ways around what it is we do, making it so that we need new mix ups and tricks, but Aigis's j.C seems to be one of those barricaded against which Mitsuru's options are just very limited, and most of her tools obsolete.

As far as I have seen, the new possibilities might have fixed these issues, making her overall play a lot stronger. I find that, especially with the new (chainable!) Tentarafoo, we can really mess with our opponents' heads, making them much more likely to use DPs, press buttons out of fear or confusion and thus mess up. They will most likely be much quicker to slip up against Mitsuru's strong pressure.

Though on the other hand, I think a large deal of the installed fear is gone, now that her damage output is so much slower. They won't be as afraid to get hit anymore as before damage wise. Thus making them think they can afford a few slip ups and thus cooling heir heads.

But this is yet to see. Just wait till we see more Mitsuru combos, I'm sure the more damaging ones are quick to be found out as well.

I simply cannot wait to see more Mitsuru (Inc. Shadow) footage and combo posibillities! I must know what she is capable of, that I might be able to issue fear in my friends still. And that we can come to a more solide conclusion on the new Mitsuru.

Though we shouldn't compare her to the old Mitsuru, we should just look forward to the new Mitsuru and what she is capable of, to get the most out of her as we (I might hope) are doing with Mitsuru right now.

[LegendaryRath]

It's a shame that there isn't much shadow Mitsuru footage. Hopefully players are willing to be more adventurous with trying her out, and also with experimenting in their combos.

edit: If you notice any new footage, please feel free to link it and I'll make sure that it gets incorporated into the video thread. It would be a big help

Edited December 25, 2013 by LegendaryRath

[AchedSphinx]

I'm not worried about Mitsuru. She will still be the best character in the game that isn't Aigis. Mitsuru's high-level gameplay hasn't changed much from what I've seen. There's a lot of spacing. A lot of throws. A lot of pressure strings that last forever. Her gameplay remains unchanged. Zone the opponent, get you into the corner, scare them for throws. The only problem is that she doesn't have bufula oki. But she can still do SB bufula oki, it'll cost 50 meter though to follow up with decent damage though.

[LegendaryRath]

I'm not worried about Mitsuru. She will still be the best character in the game that isn't Aigis. Mitsuru's high-level gameplay hasn't changed much from what I've seen. There's a lot of spacing. A lot of throws. A lot of pressure strings that last forever. Her gameplay remains unchanged. Zone the opponent, get you into the corner, scare them for throws. The only problem is that she doesn't have bufula oki. But she can still do SB bufula oki, it'll cost 50 meter though to follow up with decent damage though.

I haven't seen anyone confirm off sb bufula yet. If it's anything like in p4a, then it should pick the opponent up on hit, which should allow for meterless damage. There's probably no need to use SB Droit to extend the combo at that point.

It's my hope anyway

edit: I'm willing to guess this combo works, or something similar... (SB Bufula hits after 50/50-high/low) > 5AAA > B Coup > 2A > 2B > C Bufula > [4B] > B Coup > Bufudyne. If the autocombo causes the combo to prorate too hard, then we could probably just go right into B Coup. So long as it hits an airborn opponent, then 2A should connect.

It's just some theory fighting though. That and watching footage is all we really get to do at this point

Edited December 25, 2013 by LegendaryRath

[AchedSphinx]

I forgot about that air hit stun thing. If your combo doesn't work how about SB bufula oki > 5AA > 2B > 2DD > [4B] > sweep > B coup. I'm trying to visualize it so I'm not sure how it'd work. You might be able to do 5AA > 5B > 2B. I'm not sure though.

[Reako]

I haven't seen anyone confirm off sb bufula yet. If it's anything like in p4a, then it should pick the opponent up on hit, which should allow for meterless damage. There's probably no need to use SB Droit to extend the combo at that point.

It's my hope anyway

edit: I'm willing to guess this combo works, or something similar... (SB Bufula hits after 50/50-high/low) > 5AAA > B Coup > 2A > 2B > C Bufula > [4B] > B Coup > Bufudyne. If the autocombo causes the combo to prorate too hard, then we could probably just go right into B Coup. So long as it hits an airborn opponent, then 2A should connect.

It's just some theory fighting though. That and watching footage is all we really get to do at this point

This won't always be as effective, because if you break your opponent's guard before the 3rd hit of the SB Bufula you won't be able to C Bufula freeze them anymore. Only up till three freezes from non-supers will actually freeze, the whips only freezing if they are the very first freeze in the combo. Thus there will most likely be moments where you just no longer will be able to chain the combo as you describe due to them not becoming frozen.

It is still a nice idea for a combo, though. But it is different for Shadow Mitsuru, as her auto combo does not allow a B Coup Droit to be chained after a 5AAA.

[LegendaryRath]

There hasn't been any confirmation on a three freeze limit in this version, so maybe... just maybe...

Even if it becomes a problem, I'm sure there's something we can do off that.

edit: I'm sure shadow Mitsuru can still just 5AA > 5B > 2AB > B coup instead. I also forget to mention just doing 2AB > B coup

[Reako]

I'm sure we can assume the three freeze limit will stay.

Mitsuru will always find a way around everything. Her gameplay will find a way around everything. Because it's Mitsuru, lol. She can do all and everything (I'm sure).

Yes, I'm sure she can, but if they are in ice, and you 5A hits them then, the 5AA> 5B> 2AB> won't connect. I prefer to do a fully charged 5B> 2AB> etc or in case there is/might not enough time I just instantly go for a 2AB> etc. combo to be sure the combo will link. It's more secure like that. I don't think the 5AA is really necessary, especially considering adding a second one makes you incappable of doing a full Mitsuru corner combo. I'm sure the 5AA move will still have the same prorate for Shadow Mitsuru, so that's something to keep in mind. For her new auto combo, obviously, I don't know, but I assume it is something similar. Maybe.

[IrrelevantAlex]

Here's the Air Hit 5aaa into B coup into 2A 2B C Plate pickup confirm http://youtu.be/HivhvipZJD8?t=12m22s

[AchedSphinx]

Just saw an interesting Shadow Mitsuru combo here: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22575579

combo was 5AAAAA > Shadow Berzerk > 2A+B > SB droit > SB bufula > mabufudyne > myriad arrows B hold > C ice hit > full charge kick hits > C ice hit > SB myriad arrows > C ice hit > C ice hit > full charge kick

Two full charge kicks in one combo seems pretty cool to me!

As you can probably tell, this combo can probably be made better. I couldn't see the damage, the quality for my nico is poor.

[Reako]

Did anyone notice that the enemy stayed frozen throughout the Myriad Arrows, even without the help of Mabufudyne? (Check the slashes, not the kick).

And Mitsuru's SB Myriad Arrows looks sickeningly cool. It hits around 50 times, if not exactly 50 times.

And the damage from the combo was 5964, but do take into account that the second kick was not fully charged, because Labrys dying prematurely cut off the charge. I'm sure you're all familiar with this, the charge automatically ends a second or so after the match is won. (The small amount of time in which you can still input something after winning would be the second.)

And again, during the SB Myraid Arrows the opponent stayed frozen. Looks really helpful and will most likely save on the use of Mabufudyne shards. I'm sure he could've shot like 2 sets of C shards, if not just 1 by the looks of it if you time the D shards shot at the end correctly, and finish with D shards for more damage. MAYBE even allowing for a 3rd set of Myraid Arrows? (Although perhaps not with a fully charged kick, it is still free damage.) But this will most likely only be possible in a few situations, if at all, because of lack of SP. We'll see if it is possible or not.

And is Berzerk supposed to be with a Z?

Oh, and Sphix, he shot the shards with D at the end, not C, so the combo would be:

5AAAAAA> Berzerk> 2AB> SB Bufula> Mabufudyne> B Myraid Arrows (Hold)> C Shards> (Release)> C Shards> SB Myraid Arrows> C Shards> D Shards> (Release)

With automatic release 5964 damage. Required only Berzerk and AUTO! Combo, not even requiring counter hit.

Edit: Just saw the end of the video, where the entire combo is pulled off without being intercepted, though the combo was slightly different with a different starter, here is the imput:

5AA> 5B> 2AB> Berzerk> SB Coup Droit> SB Bufula> Mabufudyne> B Myraid Arrows (Hold)> C Shards> (Release)> C Shards> SB Myriad Arrows (Hold)> C Shards> D Shards> (Release)(> 5C for instant pressure, though no damage)

The damage is 6728.

Imagine this combo from a Fatal Counter, without such 5AA damage scalling.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Reako

[shtkn]

the shadow mitsuru does both a normal myriad arrows and a SB myriad arrows in that combo, and both myriads extended the freeze time somehow. but later in the video mitsuru does SB myriad arrows as a reversal and the opponent does not get frozen at all, so there is something more at play here.

maybe this is a passive buff that mitsuru gets while mabufudyne is active? maybe this is a shadow berserk exclusive thing? i haven't seen any mabufudyne cobmos from normal mitsuru yet...

[LegendaryRath]

I'm curious about the freezing changes during Myriad Arrows. Until we see Regular Mitsuru go for this sort of thing, we wont know if it's shadow character specific. My gut's telling me it is a change to the minimum freeze time of Mabufudyne's hits.

These combos are really promising. If this isn't S.Mitsuru specific, then we can probably make some good use of this sort of thing off fatal combos.

[LegendaryRath]

Video thread will get an update tomorrow including about an hour of Shuuto footage. He gets a really good win streak going, so we lucked out.

It looks like DIE-chan dropped Mitsuru for Persona Sho. He's already above 800psr with him. Sad days.

[Reako]

How dare he choose someone else over Mitsuru?!

It's time for the execution.

All jokes aside, that really is too bad. Is it just me, or are the Mitsuru players generally in hidding?

They are much less present than other character's players IIRC. Perhaps Mitsuru's charge properties still scare people?

[LegendaryRath]

Posted an update to the video thread. There's a LOT of shuuto footage on there now. His Mitsuru is very straightforward, but also very solid. Don't expect anything crazy, but he does run train for like 20 matches.

There was a 2v2 tournament two days ago with him in it too. Afterwards, he started the casuals train again, but unfortunately the stream got cut before it could go very far. Hopefully what's there gets uploaded sometime.

edit: I'm going to update the main post of the video thread sometime soon as well, adding in all the recent updates, as well as removing DIE-chan from the notable players list (as much as it pains me to do so). Shuuto will be going there for sure though.

[Reako]

Yes, I suggest you put him up there. There should be at least one player to look after for solid Mitsuru gameplay footage.

It really is a shame DIE-chan no longer uses Mitsuru, but we got someone else for it in return.

Whether (s)he's better or not, we'll have yet to see that.

I wonder if Lord Knight will pick up Mitsuru again in P4A2.

[LegendaryRath]

Yes, I suggest you put him up there. There should be at least one player to look after for solid Mitsuru gameplay footage.

It really is a shame DIE-chan no longer uses Mitsuru, but we got someone else for it in return.

Whether (s)he's better or not, we'll have yet to see that.

I wonder if Lord Knight will pick up Mitsuru again in P4A2.

Shuuto's been great for a long time, even if he does some questionable stuff. He won SBO after all. He's a dude by the way :P Gonna work on the video thread update when I get home from work tonight.

I'm pretty sure LK will, but I guess you'd have to hear it from him. iirc, he's not really following p4u2 until close to the console release, so there's plenty of time for him to make up his mind.

[LegendaryRath]

Minori Sighting! Several matches added to the video thread. I approve of this new color.

Can we please discuss this? It's not the old oki for sure, but it's definitely something! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPxWfIoaMY#t=632

He seemed to go for dash 2D after a few high Counterhit j.Cs. I'm assuming this can be confirmed if done fast enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPxWfIoaMY#t=655

edit: It looks like this set is actually kind of outdated. I think it's from 12/27/2013 12/22/2013. I wonder how great he looks now 0_0

Edited January 22, 2014 by LegendaryRath