[P4AU] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

[Reako]

My theory was that the input for droit changes in shadow berserk from charge [4]6a/b to no charge 46a/b. I'll be more than happy to test it out Friday at evo.

I probably assume it is something like Akihiko. Where once she is in one charge special, the rest can be activated by just pressing the ''activation'' button.

As in: 5AAAAAA> Rampage> 2AB> [4]6B> 6AB> 8CD> etc.

I assume you'll still have to charge the first one outside of every string, but not the consuctive ones in a string. Just my theory, though.

[AchedSphinx]

Good showing at Evo Rath and LK. It was fun watching you guys play. Perhaps next Evo I can play against you guys!

 

On a side note, did anyone at Evo find out how Shadow Mitsuru does droit B into no charge droit SB?

[LegendaryRath]

On a side note, did anyone at Evo find out how Shadow Mitsuru does droit B into no charge droit SB?

I'm sorry but I didn't figure it out. I feel like I would learn more in 5 minutes of training mode than I did in a whole weekend of stopping by the atlus booth.

 

edit: I'm going to be MIA for a few weeks. I'll update some of the threads and quietly do the mod thing, I just wont be posting. See you guys later.

[AchedSphinx]

There was an interesting link in the P4U2 News thread about a tier list Yamashita made. What caught my interest was how high he placed S.Mitsuru. A lot of tier lists, before 1.1, placed her at around B, and I haven't seen a lot of footage of her. But I did see some things that might suggest why he placed her so high. In a recent video I saw that S.Mitsuru could do 8k from a 2D starter by using Myriad Arrows twice during Shadow Berserk. The combo went something like 2DD > 4 > sweep > Berserk > sweep > double droit > etc. Pretty easy combo to do and hit confirm and practical.

 

2D isn't Mitsuru's best starter, but it also means that S.Mitsuru has the potential to get 7-8k from many of her normals with the double Myriad route. She also has superior range to S.Chie, so I could see S.Mitsuru being placed higher, since Chie would have to work harder to get in. They both have the one hit kill mentality to them though.

 

I really need to compile a list of S.Mitsuru combos, but since I know Mitsuru so well, the combos don't seem hard at all. Once the mystery of double droit is solved the rest is pretty much self explanatory (actually, the SB bufula after droits is also a mystery). Though I suppose knowing specific routes could be useful. S.Mitsuru doesn't need sweep in a combo to go into Shadow Berserk, for instance 5AAA > Berserk > sweep works, so she does have a lot of options for damage. What she loses though are things like j.B > OMC > j.B. Unless that's going to win you the round, I don't see that being an option for S.Mitsuru. Though, I think a variant of that would be j.B > Berserk > sweep, I think I saw her do this once.

 

Anyways, because I love Myriad combos so much, and doing them twice in a combo is hype, I think I'll main S.Mitsuru for awhile.

[LegendaryRath]

I'm fairly certain that Yamashita placed S.Mitsuru and S.Chie on the tier list, instead of off to the side, because he feels that they are comparable in strength to their normal versions. S.Narukami for example would fit pretty high on any tier list just because he's "still narukami" but he isn't really comparable to his normal version, so he was left out. Any way I look at it, S.Mitsuru being where she is shows that Yamashita believes she's pretty viable.

 

Like you said, Sphinx, she can pretty easily do 7k+ off any hit (even her full Dial A) so long as she builds 100 meter. Instead of dealing lots of damage over time, she's going to try to get 100 meter as fast as possible and land a decent hit. Once those conditions are met, she -should- win the round, but most people would probably choose to save their bursts just for that sort of thing. Lately I've seen several S.Mitsuru players show burst safe routes that prevent people from bursting after shadow berserk. It's not quite as simple/good as S.Chie just doing "God hand > OMC > charge- charge- charge- > God hand" but it definitely makes a difference. 

 

S.Mitsuru has her own set of strengths that differ from normal Mitsuru's. I pretty much only have theories right now, but I think we can discuss them in a few weeks, after we've had some experience with the game.

[kupo_asami]

I think in one of the recent atlus video about shadow kanji, the guy mentions how shadow characters are able to do special cancels during berserk mode.

Only one of each verison in the same combo.  So that will explain why shadow mitsuru is able to do double coup and sb bufula so easily, or a shadow narukami doing triple ragin lion into swift strike cross slash.

[AchedSphinx]

I think in one of the recent atlus video about shadow kanji, the guy mentions how shadow characters are able to do special cancels during berserk mode.

Only one of each verison in the same combo.  So that will explain why shadow mitsuru is able to do double coup and sb bufula so easily, or a shadow narukami doing triple ragin lion into swift strike cross slash.

If that's the case I can see how it would be possible then. Droit B > Droit SB, there's enough time to do both of those in the corner in P4A. I was somewhat confused how she'd get Bufula SB but realized she could hold 3(1 depending on side) and go into 8 to get bufula SB. Sounds pretty fun regardless.

 

@Rath do you happen to have any links to the burst safe routes? I can imagine a few that might work, well fake-outs I guess. Instead of doing sweep > Berserk > etc, instead do sweep > bufula C > Berserk. This way you might get them to burst at the sweep and if they don't, they eat all of the myriad arrows.

 

Anyways, gonna spend awhile thoroughly examining that S.Mitsuru combo video. I hope to see you guys in P4U2!

[LegendaryRath]

I think the easiest burst safe route I saw was 2B > C bufula > B coup > activate > and then the normal shadow berserk combo. If they burst after c bufula they should be too high in the air for it to matter and you just reset them.

 

The input for sb droit > sb bufu in berserk mode is just [1]3A+B > [3]9C+D. Mitsuru has always been able to use diagonal inputs to charge both down and back.

[AchedSphinx]

Well, here's my brief overview of Mitsuru from my few hours of experience.

 

First thing, her 5A is only backdash cancelable and her 5B is only forward dash cancelable. 5C can dash back or forward. 5 feint can cancel into 5B, throw, 2C, 5D, 2D. Just press the button as she's about to land. Her 2B launches lower, which allows for 2 > 5 to work. Some of her BnBs require that link and the timing can be sort of weird. Mitsuru can't do [CH] j.C > 5 unless she's really low to the ground. But she can do uncharged 5B after j.C or 5A. The combo does about 3.5k, so quite a bit lower than her P4A days. Her anti-air 2B combo does really good damage though.

 

Most common hit-confirm route will end up being 5AA > 2B for air confirms. She can also use her auto combo as well. Gonna need that SP! Her corner combos are relatively easy. She will use bufula D a lot for her corner combos. Try not to use bufula C in corner combos, the proration is worse. For bufula D to hit, Mitsuru has to do 2 > bufula D otherwise it will whiff.

 

throw combo is pretty easy. 5AA > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B. You can change it around if you want, like adding 5 > AoA after bufula D. Her Mabufudyne combos are probably easier now since SB bufula doesn't go off screen you can use that for full charge Myriad Arrows. Costs 150 meter though. Just worth noting, some combos don't work on Rise for some reason. Like some combos add 5AA > 2C as an ender, the 5A whiffs on Rise. Could be more characters, I only checked Yukiko and Naoto since Mitsuru had to tweak her corner throw for those two. Midscreen 5B FC is a bit easier to do since 5C can be dash canceled into 5B.

 

Midscreen BnB combos so far: crouching 5AA > 5B > sweep > OMC > 2 > 6 > sweep > bufula C > 5 > sweep > droit B

2B > 2DD > 4 > 2 > bufula D > sweep > bufula C > 5 > sweep > droit B

5AAA

air borne 5AA > 2B > 2DD > 4 > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B

5DD > 2DD > 4 > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B

2DD > 4 > 2 > bufula D > sweep > bufula C > 5 > sweep > droit B

 

Shadow Mitsuru is pretty fun to play. Doing her Berserk combos aren't that difficult. She can cancel almost immediately to any of her charge moves. Most routes end up being 6k or more. You have to vary some of your basic combos though because S.Mitsuru has the old combo route. Either way, you'll probably want to auto combo a lot with her to build SP.

 

Anyways, that's about it for now.

[Vlad7779311]

 

 

5AA > 2B > 2DD > 4 > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B

This works on standing opponents as well?

[AchedSphinx]

This works on standing opponents as well?

Forgot to clarify, that's for airborne opponents. Doesn't work on grounded.

[Diveman]

Just as a note 5 can be whiff canceled into droits and her DP as well

[Chachaman]

Damn nice info guys my copy should arrive next week so i can test this stuff out. So what is the command to feint her B attacks?

[Diveman]

There's no command, you just input what you want to use right before 5 hits.

[AchedSphinx]

I played about thirty or so matches today. I take back what I said about 5AA > 2B that important of a hit confirm. It's good and all, but I think Mitsuru's basic auto combo is a lot better and will be used a lot more. The auto combo works on people who jump wake-up as well, builds meter, and has decent corner carry. Pretty reliable.

 

Another BnB I think is important will be 5AAA > 5B > 5C > droit A. I still haven't gotten used to the timing for her 5AAA because you have to cancel it before the 5th hit, otherwise you can't cancel at all. Also worth noting is that she only gains bonus SP on the 5th hit.

[LegendaryRath]

I got my copy today as well and have played 50 or so matches between Mitsuru and S.Mitsuru. I want to give us a week or two to get accustomed to the game before I start working on combo or matchup threads. Until then, feel free to post anything and everything here in the gameplay discussion thread.

 

My impression of S.Mitsuru so far:

She feels easier to get into than normal Mitsuru due to the fact that you really only need to learn one combo, plus you have access to the old Dial A (autocombo) that we're familar with. She definitely has some character armor. You can completely screw up your first round, just to start the 2nd with 100 meter that can be used to nearly TOD (touch of death) your opponent off literally any hit. Even when she's failing, she's getting something in return, which honestly feels scummy lol.

 

That said, I don't think she's as good as Normal Mitsuru. In return for the chance for big damage (shadow berserk), you need to sacrifice so much. You lose your burst, 20% of all damage, access to awakening mode and all of its perks (free meter, access to 150 meter, damage reduction). You also can't use the new autocombo, which is universally better than S.Mitsuru's (which I feel is even worse than the P4U1 version). The biggest thing that's limiting S.Mitsuru is her fixation on Shadow berserk mode. It's ~THE~ thing that makes her worth using, and it's the ~ENTIRE~ focus of her gameplay. It's strong, but it's basically all she has. The necessity to use it limits your options. 100 meter, and not a single point less, is all that matters. You wont spend 25 meter to confirm a corner combo. You wont spend 50 meter for j.B > OMC > j.B instant overhead. Having access to so much meter is a tremendous advantage and should give you plenty of options, but it doesn't matter if there's only one thing that is really worth it, in this case shadow berserk. You can argue that you could just use the meter however you want, and it might even be the right thing to do in a situation, but if you're doing that then at the end of the day you would have been better off just playing normal Mitsuru and taking all the buffs that come with her.

 

Welp   Sorry if I sound like I'm going out of my way to make S.Mitsuru sound like she isn't worth it. She's definitely a strong/viable character, and it's nice that she is so easy to pick up. I've never felt so empowered as in a few of my matches today. Stealing a round by dealing 7k+ off an autocombo had me rolling on the floor several times today.

 

edit: I thought it would be helpful to have a list of basic BNBs to tide people over until I make a proper combo thread.

 

standing opponent- autocombo or 5AA(A) > 6B > 5C(6) > A coup, only does 1300-1700, tack on myriad arrows to kill if necessary. Autocombo recommended to be lazy, get corner carry, + meter

crouching opponent- (5AAA) > 5B > 2AB > B coup. Use SB coup for 25 meter in the corner to pick up a full combo (Example: 5AA > 5B > 2AB > SB coup > 2A > 2B > 2D > [5B] > 2AB > B coup, add bufudyne for extra damage)

airborn opponent- autocombo still works here, not a bad option. The midscreen BNB is 2B > 2DD > [4B] > [2B] > D bufula > 2AB > C bufula > [6B] > 2AB > B Coup. Depending on the starter you may need to omit the C bufu part and just go into 2AB > B coup after D bufula, or use 2B (not held) > C bufu instead (example: 5AA > 2B > 2DD > [4B] > [2B] > D bufu > [6B] > 2AB > B coup [2900 damage])

 

This is all just off the top of my head. I'll work on an in-depth section for combo theory and optimal combos in a week or two, after we figure this stuff out.

[AchedSphinx]

That's just the way it works. Sure she's holding that meter, but she only needs one hit and that's about it. She has huge comeback potential and shadow characters gain meter at an absurd rate. Her auto combo is worse probably because her 5A is slower and it's awkward to use her old auto combo to confirm into new things. 7k auto combo is pretty sweet though.

 

I do think regular Mitsuru is a lot better though. Her 5AA is so good now and 5AAA is even better if I can get used to the timing. I've been winning matches basically doing 5AA stagger pressure. It's easy to confirm into 5AAA as well. I've played even more matches today and I need to get used to the new tools she has. Another awkward thing for me to confirm is 5DD and 2DD. I keep doing 4B or 5A after 5DD and I do 5A when I do 2DD. So weird. I've gotten the throw combo down. Here's a more optimal route: corner throw > 5AA > 5B > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B.

 

Oh yeah, Mitsuru can now do 5 non-counter against a standing opponent and follow up with sweep. Pretty rare hit, but ehh it's worth noting.

[LegendaryRath]

New autocombo da best lol

Oh yeah, Mitsuru can now do 5 non-counter against a standing opponent and follow up with sweep. Pretty rare hit, but ehh it's worth noting.

She could do that before. She used to be able to do [5B] > feint sweep > 5AAAAA as well iirc.

[AchedSphinx]

New autocombo da best lol

 

 

Yes, her 5AAA > 5B > 5C > dash cancel > 5AA routes are particularly scary. You can change it up depending on how you think the opponent will respond. There's plenty of frame advantage to bait any DP after dash cancel though it can be defeated if the opponent mashes in which case you can do 5AAA > 5B > 5C > back dash > 5C to catch them or even throw them.

 

Her new 5AA is better on frame advantage than her old one as well so it will be a move we will be using a lot. So yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with her. They did increase her skill ceiling as well. In the first game she was all about catching the opponent pressing a button or doing something wrong. In the P4AU it's the same but it feels like she has to do more of it I guess. She still has that awesome spacing and zoning game. Her damage was scaled down somewhat, but I've seen most Mitsuru's just use SB droit in corner combos so long as they have 25 meter, so she does good damage there.

 

Her damage was actually scaled down more so on some combo routes, such as counter j.C, counter air throw, and her BnB crouching hit confirm in the corner requiring 25 meter. Her auto combo does more damage, 2B anti-air is about the same, I think her midscreen OMC combo is about the same as well.

 

Oh yeah, remind me not to keep thinking Mitsuru's sweep is Fatal. I keep thinking it is and going sweep > 2A > 5C and they tech lol.

[SpLSlick]

Which super is myriad arrows? Just started to mess around with the character....Is that the one with the boot ender?

[LegendaryRath]

Which super is myriad arrows? Just started to mess around with the character....Is that the one with the boot ender?

236236A (the one where she slashes and does the kick). It's also sometimes called Setsuna

[SpLSlick]

236236A (the one where she slashes and does the kick). It's also sometimes called Setsuna

That's for the fast reply :0

[SpLSlick]

Is the frame data on the wiki for p4au up to date?

[AchedSphinx]

Is the frame data on the wiki for p4au up to date?

Yes with the exception of new characters like Rise, Ken, etc.

[SpLSlick]

Yes with the exception of new characters like Rise, Ken, etc.

Thats good to know...Thanks...Also, what would you say would be her overall gameplan? I have an idea since watching vids of her but I feel kind of lost so far =[