[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Uncivilized Elk]

I dunno why but whenever I do c.s, f.S, j.SHD combos I get the same issue Elk. j.S doesn't cancel to H.

 

Glad I'm not alone but sorry for your pain, lol.

For me it's being really character specific. On Sol I can do it (though I'd rather go for 5H on Sol). On Axl maybe 25% of the time only. On Pot I'm getting it about half the time on the cSfS.

[fogelstrom]

There really isn't any pain involved. I feel alot of characters get to high up anyway so I'm more comfortable just hitting c.S.

I just think it's strange that more people feel the same way about j.H not even coming out when you've done c.S, f.S, j.S ifront. It's just weird.

[The_undercover_beret]

For corner combos you can also do the dust route into c.S 6HS P-Step CWH c.S sj.S(1) j.HS j.D for 165 on sol. That dust route works on everyone I think. Only a few more then the first one you listed but you get slightly better oki off of j.D because you can still do meaty it's late setups.

 

I have just tested this combo (and I love it), it's indeed universal, however, it seems that the second c.S has to delayed a little on Ramlethal and May, otherwise they will be able to tech in the air and therefore ruin our okizeme.

 

I dunno why but whenever I do c.s, f.S, j.SHD combos I get the same issue Elk. 

 

Depending on your starter or the character you are fighting, I think you can try delaying the c.S (or even walk forward a little) or use 5HS instead.

 

Second, I cannot get j2K to connect into jK for the life of me - the opponent keeps teching or I hit the ground. Is this just an issue of speed?

 

Actually, I don't think you can get J.2K J.K after CWH c.S f.S, but only J.2K J.P J.K, because of hitstun scaling or it has to be extremely difficult (I couldn't get this once on anybody). It works fine without f.S or with 5HS instead though. 

[Uncivilized Elk]

Actually, I don't think you can get J.2K J.K after CWH c.S f.S, but only J.2K J.P J.K, because of hitstun scaling or it has to be extremely difficult (I couldn't get this once on anybody). It works fine without f.S or with 5HS instead though. 

Okay, cool, thanks for the tip. Definitely dropping the fS then. 

By the way which characters are heavier than Sol? (Those are the characters I will do cS on after CWH because I can just barely time the 5H consistently enough on Sol). 

I'm still having a hard time comboing from j2K, but I have done it, so it's just an issue of practice.

[Veleon]

I'm having trouble getting thrown a lot. I feel like there are a lot of situations where I just get thrown and there is nothing I can do about it. I get thrown doing the dandy setups on knockdown a lot. The biggest one is when I do a jump in on someone in the corner I get thrown when I land. I tried to stop doing it. But old habits from other games die hard. With the removal of throw breaking I have no idea how the game is supposed to work when two people are throwing at the same time. There are a lot of times when I feel like I was throwing the same time as the opponent and I just get thrown.

 

Are the timings on my dandy setups just wrong? Or is that a risk that the dandy step takes? Have you guys had this type of problems with being thrown a lot?

[Loli-Zero]

Throwing is a huge part of this game. If you are next to someone on their wakeup, you are getting thrown. If you use the setups for oki we've been talking about off of j.D or 2D you can bait throws with its late.

When you jump in on someone you will get thrown if you land next to them. Try spacing your jump ins differently or using j.S(1) j.K for jump-ins. IAD j.HS will get you thrown if the spacing is wrong.

In general, slayers offense is all about baiting throws with its late, 6K, BDC Mappa, etc. after opponents are scared to mash throw you can throw them or do better mixups based on the situation. Hope that helps

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[fogelstrom]

Basically what Loli said. But once you get better with baiting throws you are going to run into the next problem. Getting hit by failed mash throws and eating people's 5HS/6HS because your timing was bad.

 

Also if you play online the throwing there is ridiculous. Between myself and another Slayer friend of mine we both agree that you're getting thrown online WAY more than at our offline casuals where we actually do the throwing.

 

My newest issue is when doing 236K on people and they just mash like crazy. I really don't got any answer for this and it's frustrating like hell because it feels like almost your whole game is shot down. Mind you I have to chase down pretty much everyone I play against regardless of character used.

BDC Bite and Mappa are good tools here I'd assume. I just suck so badly at it. For some reason I'm missing down back and down forward and end up with super jump P/K...
Anyone got any tips for BDC Bite inputs? Like the one in the challenge against Slayer. He barely moves a pixel and does it. I know it's tool assisted but still. There must be some input buffering you can do after block/hit Mappa?

[Loli-Zero]

First of all, when I say baiting throws I mean forcing them to throw out 5HS/6HS because you are unthrowable and scoring a free counter hit because heavy moves have long startup. So if you're getting hit you're not baiting with the right stuff.

In regards to Mappa, if it's instant blocked you are getting punished (K Mappa). If it's not instant block you can't press any buttons, but BDC Mappa is a decent option. If it's on hit you can hit 2P to stop some mashing. Anything that beats you still will get CH by BDC Mappa. Learn BDC Mappa. Despite the invuln nerf it's still incredibly useful. Also dandy step is good after Mappa on hit. You can BDC cancel it if you're getting hit out of startup (this will depend on how close you are I think.)

In regards to BDC bite the optimal short cut is 6321447 HS. To practice it start by learning the timing to dash backwards after a Mappa on hit. Then try and had the other inputs before the backdash. Then just add the 7 motion at the end right before you hit HS

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[fogelstrom]

Yeah my It's Late setups are horrendous. I should work on those after scoring the proper knockdowns. But also in general just doing any stuff not to "bait" but just mixups that takes you close and you end up eating a 5HS/6HS because they just mash throw. When you learn to space so they don't get to throw you this till start to occur was my point.

 

Isn't 236K -2 on block and 236P -1? So instant is only -4? Or are they worse?
I've been using alot of Dandy after Mappa, both K and P but in general people are mashing hard so I get hit alot on the way back in for Under Pressure. But I've started to pick up on that and do alot more Pile Bunker now. People don't seem to care though and continue. And doing PB everytime isn't reallt great either since it's easily punished if they decide to block. I practiced some BDC Mappa and I will focus on implementing this into my game more.

 

Hmm... BDC Bite is just weird for me. My execution isn't the best around so these things are quite tricky for me. Especially when you have to do 6321[4-5-4-7]. That last sequence is quite the strain. I'll try it out more tomorrow and see if I'll get some going. BDC Bite after Mappa is insane though.

 

[Yuhoke]

About It's Late... if you want a meterless combo off of It's Late you have to hit with it's late active frames (6 active frames. Also, pun intended). So to do this you do it as a meaty, and since it's throw inv. it's great as a meaty attack right? Well...

It's Late
Start up: 14
Active: 6
Recovery: 12
Throw inv.: 1-13

 

Meaning you have to choose to bait throw by timing it with the throw inv. startup frames, or timing it meaty so you get enough +frames for meterless combo, but you can be thrown. This apparently was the case with +R, but I just found this out, so heads up people!


 

[Loli-Zero]

I thought I was getting punished with a 5 frame normal when I played last night, but maybe I was trying to do something. Either way, if you get IBed on K mappa don't try and do anything.

Edit: instant block takes away 3 frames, so k mappa should be punishable by anyone with a 5 frame jab on instant block

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[fogelstrom]

About It's Late... if you want a meterless combo off of It's Late you have to hit with it's late active frames (6 active frames. Also, pun intended). So to do this you do it as a meaty, and since it's throw inv. it's great as a meaty attack right? Well...

It's Late

Start up: 14

Active: 6

Recovery: 12

Throw inv.: 1-13

 

Meaning you have to choose to bait throw by timing it with the throw inv. startup frames, or timing it meaty so you get enough +frames for meterless combo, but you can be thrown. This apparently was the case with +R, but I just found this out, so heads up people!

Very well said. I hadn't really thought about it that way myself. Made my day a bit shittier haha but you gotta work with what you got. Vert useful information though.

 

 

I thought I was getting punished with a 5 frame normal when I played last night, but maybe I was trying to do something. Either way, if you get IBed on K mappa don't try and do anything.

Edit: instant block takes away 3 frames, so k mappa should be punishable by anyone with a 5 frame jab on instant block

 

Sounds about right! Don't do anything? Obviously it's time for fancy stuff and do 236236HS after Mappa to blow people up. And add DoT after the hit woop. Hah. But seriously that works. Super fun on Hellfire to lock out peoples burst haha.

[Uncivilized Elk]

What does non-CH It's Late combo into? 

 

Also I wish I played people who mash more, because I have yet to be put on the defensive after a K mappa. All the people I've been playing who are around my level usually stay on the defensive themselves for whatever reason after K mappa. So I have no experience with somebody trying to reversal on me.

Maybe I should try more ranked. 

EDIT: OK I have one friend who punishes me 95% of the time if I don't block and it's great, my bad manners are almost gone on treating the mappas as if they were safe.

 

 

BTW any tips on recognizing that you scored a counter hit? Having a hard time distinguishing those key moments where I can go for massive damage.

[Uncivilized Elk]

So if you combo off RCs post-time slow (the background stops being black), you don't have your damage prorated. 
Does this affect Slayer's optimal combos in any way or can he not capitalize off this?

[fogelstrom]

What does non-CH It's Late combo into? 

 

EDIT: OK I have one friend who punishes me 95% of the time if I don't block and it's great, my bad manners are almost gone on treating the mappas as if they were safe.

 

BTW any tips on recognizing that you scored a counter hit? Having a hard time distinguishing those key moments where I can go for massive damage.

To be able to combo of It's Late without CH it has to be meaty. But after a meaty It's Late you can do 2K, 2D (you can confirm It's Late + 2K so you don't do 2D point blank and get punished). Also 2K, c.S, f.S works. The link is kinda awkward. Especially online.

Mappa is always negative on block so in theory there is no reason for people NOT to press buttons. You need to be called out to be able to learn how to adress that.

For CH confirming... all of the moves or just in general? There's more hitstop. Also just remember exactly what CH goes into what and be prepared with that move specifically. Example 2HS. Be prepared for the added hitstun, counter sound and text whilst focusing on 6HS.

 

So if you combo off RCs post-time slow (the background stops being black), you don't have your damage prorated. 

Does this affect Slayer's optimal combos in any way or can he not capitalize off this?

I doubt that. I'm not 100% sure how this works but I'd assume any hit during the RC slow motion has forced proration? Anyway I think it would be hard to wait out the slow motion for Slayer combos. Maybe delay CWH in combos?

[Yuhoke]

Going straight into cl.5S>f.S after meaty It's Late can be easier since cl.5S is 5fr and 2K is 6fr startup. You can try practicing the timing with doing a knockdown and hitting them with meaty It's Late (Crouching opponent too since that adds more hitstun)  But! As I stated before, you can be thrown out of this.

If have meter you can always RC it though and confirm from there.

[Uncivilized Elk]

Thanks for the help y'alls. I have like an infinite amount of low-level questions.
 

Here's another:
Any tips for getting 6H to connect after a CWH 236236H (or CWH 5H 236236H)? I sometimes get it and I sometimes don't and I can't tell what I can do to correct it.

EDIT: Apparently that only works on lights unless you juggle them before CWH. Also the corner version of that off CH 6K/2H 6H is really dependent on weight, where you have to sometimes delay the 6H a tiny bit. It's actually quite a bit of work to just get that extra 30 damage over doing two 6H pilebunkers.

 

(Also, I am still having a damn hard time doing anything after a j2K in a combo off CWH. I try to just go for 2D, but it only ever connects from a grab RC combo. It's frustrating the hell out of me. But that's still old news.)

 

Also, I'm sure this has been answered already but do FDCs have no invul like BDCs?

[RoBoBOBR]

Mappa is always negative on block

 

Care to explain? Mappa K is -2 and has 6 active frames. Thus, depending on what active frame did hit it can be anything from -2 to +3 on block.

[fogelstrom]

T

 

(Also, I am still having a damn hard time doing anything after a j2K in a combo off CWH. I try to just go for 2D, but it only ever connects from a grab RC combo. It's frustrating the hell out of me. But that's still old news.)

 

Also, I'm sure this has been answered already but do FDCs have no invul like BDCs?

If you're doing CWH, c.s/5HS, j.SHD, j.2K, you can even hit j.K after this because the hit stun scaling hasn't set in so bad. Try to look wether the even comes out or not. My issue in the beginning was I was pressing j.P/K way to early before the recovery of j.2K was done.

 

 

Care to explain? Mappa K is -2 and has 6 active frames. Thus, depending on what active frame did hit it can be anything from -2 to +3 on block.

You can get + on hit but that is obviously will well spaced Mappa and if they perhaps FD and you get in. I probably should have been more specific and said if you cancel into Mappa from a normal. I doubt you'd hit the last active frame EVER at that point. Maybe you'd be at best -1 instead.

[SiQ]

So can someone give me a list of things you have to or should know with slayer just to kind get the idea of what i should be doing with him

[fogelstrom]

Read this thread from JP release date until now and watch videos. Should give you a pretty accurate idea

[MasterXDrake]

Am I the only one who thinks Slayer is so bad now? They took out all the cool stuff from him and some of his animations are silly like undertow's where his arm blow up like baloons. 

[Uncivilized Elk]

I hope you're the only one.
While I miss the awesomeness that was Big Bang Upper I absolutely adore this rendition of Slayer. Undertow is a little weird but I think it's fine, would have been cool to still have an explosion go along with it.

[Melo]

The only thing that seems a little counter intuitive behind Xrd Slayer's design is that they made him into a more footsie/oki based character, but nerfed his 2hs and 6k which were one of his strongest footsie/oki tools in +R. Were they afraid he would be too dominant if these were left unchanged?

 

 

Would've also been cool if FLJ gave a hardknockdown like in #R.

[Flick]

FLJ(Footloose Journey right?) didn't gave a hard knockdown in #R