[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Wirya]

also late to the party but 214KK has more untech than 214PK, which explains everything. you can get 214KK, 6H xx 214PP on standing ram lol

What the...? This is sick, man. Easier CWH loop is a thing at last! 

[RoBoBOBR]

Speaking of differences in 214P and 214K behavior -- i think 214KS has more momentum, then 214PS. 

[Loli-Zero]

Yeah K-step has huge momentum. Once you've got people scared of dandy step follow ups, empty K-step sliding throw/bite is amaaaaazing

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[The_undercover_beret]

Coming back to the J.2K YRC tech, it's possible to do c.S f.S (on block) 9 J.2K YRC J.S(1). Which can lead to some interesting mix-ups, such as J.S J.K 2K/6K and J.S 2K/Bloodsucking Universe.

 

J.S J.K 2K: High-high-low mix-up, It's very difficult to mash between J.K and 2K, beats throw and Sol's DP whiffs at that range. if FD is used against J.S and J.K, 2K will whiff.

 

J.S J.K 6K: Triple-high mix-up, not as useful, beats throw but not reversals, same issue as 2K regarding FD.

 

J.S 2K: High low mix-up, beats throws but not reversals, won't whiff even if J.S is FD'ed. If J.S is instant blocked, 2K can be punished.

 

J.S Bloodsucking Universe: Command Grab set-up, can lose to throws if they are timed correctly (can't be mashed), if J.S is FD'ed the command grab will whiff.

 

It has several weaknesses. J.S can be beaten by Blitz Shield and reversals on reaction after the superflash, furthermore J.S will whiff if f.S is FD'ed and can be avoided by jumping back. It also loses to jabs and anti-airs, if they are done before the superflash, however, since f.S is +6 on block and f.S 2K is gapless people who know what they are doing will most likely respect us after f.S. 

Faust can dodge J.S by simply crouching (Thanks to Loli-Zero for the info).

 

By doing c.S f.S (on block) 7/8 J.2K YRC AD J.S(1), it's possible to get a cross-up/fake cross-up. But it's easily beaten by air throws and anti-airs.

[Dandy Chippu]

So...what are you guys doing with long dash, i really cant think of much.

[Loli-Zero]

I'm dashing half way across the screen that's what I'm doing. It's so good in neutral once people are scared of k Mappa and other offensive options. Also, in situations where you would do dash through c.S (which is vulnerable to throws) you can mix in long dash jump cancel Mappa or DOT to CH throw attempts

Also, if your opponent is scared to throw you out of those kinds of mixups, you can do dumb stuff like 2D Knockdown, long dash through, and then either short dash to hit on front side or long dash to hit on back side. You can probably mash or jump this though with some characters (depending on there wake up frames) because long dash takes extra frames to execute

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[Hollysmoke]

Hello Slayer players! I'm going from character to character updating their wikis if they are incomplete and I'm working on Slayer's currently. Could one of the veteran players take a moment of their time to help give me a brief synopsis of his normals and specials? Feel free to post it here or send me a whisper, thanks!

EDIT: Don't worry about things like frame data and whatnot, I have that covered.

[Drake Aldan]

Stumbling through online. Spamming a lot of BDC K Mappa and It's Late on their wakeup...

 

What is the deal with Slayer's dash, anyway? I looked on the wiki but it doesn't say anything.

Does it have invul frames? Can you use it to phase through projectiles or escape the corner?

[Wirya]

So...what are you guys doing with long dash, i really cant think of much.

His long forward dash is like +R S and H dandy, but even better. 

[Melo]

Stumbling through online. Spamming a lot of BDC K Mappa and It's Late on their wakeup...

 

What is the deal with Slayer's dash, anyway? I looked on the wiki but it doesn't say anything.

Does it have invul frames? Can you use it to phase through projectiles or escape the corner?

 

Slayer's BD does have invul frames and BDC'ing adds 6 frames of invul to whatever move you canceled into. BDC 1FJ is really useful on your own wakeup.

[Wirya]

BDC is NOT invulnerable to throws, though. (I think it was in #Reload.) 

[Drake Aldan]

What about the forward dash and the long dash?

 

On an unrelated note, 6H > 236K, or raw 214KK seem like good options after Blitz Shield. Rejected!

[OneSanitarium]

I'm willing to bet BDC in this game is 7f. I can reversal bite through Dark Angel oki, through Ram's spinning sword super oki, and for shits in giggles through her beam super.

[Drake Aldan]

Blitz Shield seems like a good way to stop the opponent from mashing 2P after you do a deep K Mappa (works on block or hit).

 

I'm willing to bet BDC in this game is 7f. I can reversal bite through Dark Angel oki, through Ram's spinning sword super oki, and for shits in giggles through her beam super.

 

This (BDC bite) defeats mashing 2P when you land deep K Mappa on hit, too. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/6Bcb5LT0Yag

 

And would they put a hitbox/hurtbox display in these games already?!

Jeez.

[Dandy Chippu]

Not that its useful but if you rc helter skelter(while still standing) you can taunt and still get knockdown, beat count is still colored (or hot i dont know)

[RoBoBOBR]

http://youtu.be/Zss-AyCLPsk

 

kinda an idea for a tech

 

http://youtu.be/UHhcNrkjScQ

 

just to show that you can get KD  and some dmg for 25% in corner that way, air-combo is obviously not optimal =)

[fogelstrom]

Nice Robo.
Makes 6K have some use! Just doing YRC fake to grab gives a bit of extra sting!

[SuperJ]

i went labbing yesterday but i can't really vouch for any of this until the netcode improves or i play irl. here's what i've found.

 

throw OS with 214H~K. throw on success, dandy step otherwise. 2146H~K is an offensive variant. you are still ch'able during the throw attempt, ofc.

 

on your wakeup, crossup OS with [P]2361K. FD on non-xup, dandy step on xup. iirc you can't do [P]2143K; you get mappa on crossup :|

 

there's no reason other characters can't do the same; as such i can't help but feel at a high level slayer gets especially fucked over by crossup defensive OS's (sol [P]421H, pot [K]412364P, etc). i'm not good enough to properly judge lol. i assume this sort of OS is prevalent in blazblue, if any azrael/kokonoe players wanna chime in?..

 

if you block an overhead jumpin, and you crouch block the fuzzy high, you are left standing (!!!!!). i was experimenting with j.D-dj.D RC, falling j.D-2K. it seems very unreliable and dj.D xx DHD is probably the better option, even if it is unsafe. too bad the characters that could actually use this (order sol, kliff) aren't in the game. you guys might find something i guess v0v

[Drake Aldan]

okey, so, here's a big writeup of what I know now (day 2 Slayer), for a fellow player here. of course, I put this out in the open so others can come look, and maybe benefit (or tell me what I'm doing wrong).

 

since I'm describing how I play (online and easy modo only) it might seem kinda off. feel free to step in and comment, but don't expect me to improve my combos... or practice :P

 

righto, then-

 

---

 

5K > 236K is what you'll be spamming all day. Slayer's foot has a better hitbox than you'd think, so just stick it out. Stick it out at round start as part of your dice roll; stick it out when the other guy runs at you. Think of it like Ryu's low forward into Hadoken, you move back and forth and you land 5K > 236K. Dealing with how the other guy deals with this is playing the rest of the game, right?

 

5K > 236K has a small gap in it; you can use 236P if you're worried about that. 2K works in much the same way (2K > 236K has a gap, 2K > 236P has no gap). 5H and 6H give enough blockstun that you can do 236K without a gap but we'll talk about that... some other time!

 

When you have 50 meter and you see this land (should be easy enough to confirm), go for 5K > 236K > RC (early as possible) > 214KK > 5K > jK > jump cancel > jK > jD. Nice and easy, no fancy stuff.

 

If you get this blocked this puts you slightly negative (-2) so what we're gonna do is... flowchart!

 

Step one is BDC Mappa (backdash jump cancel Mappa). Or, 44 2369K (8K for me 'cause I'm on a Hitbox, and you can do P, too).

It looks like this:

 

http://youtu.be/YhJiHtJa_RU

 

So, what's happening here, is that you backdash, which gives you invulnerability for a short while. Then, you input a special, then you cancel the backdash into a jump, and finally cancel the jump into the special.

 

What this ends up doing, is that since you're - when you're blocked, the other person is going to want to press buttons. So, you phase backwards to dodge whatever they put out, and then lunge back in to punish their whiff.

The backdash can be short or long depending on how fast your fingers are. Remember that a sharp quick 44 2369P may have to do if your BDC K Mappa is not fast enough for the whiff punish.

 

(Short aside: BDC is important to know because it's one of your few "reversals/DPs". You should learn BDC Mappa (44 2369P/K) and also BDC Bloodsucking Universe (6321447H) and even BDC Dandy Step (44 214P/K).

I don't know how important BDC Undertow (63214469P) would be...)

 

Now if you're doing it right after the first 5K > 236K you can just spam BDC Mappa over and over again and the other guy will get wrecked if they're pressing the wrong button.

 

 

If they stick out a move long enough or active enough to catch you backdashing, well, that move will probably be slower, so you can probably interrupt instead with 2K or 5K instead of backdashing and CH them. 2K and 5K are both + on block so you can just stick it out, and if it counters, link into another 2K/5K > 236K, and if they block it, you can press 5K again. (I'll cover blockstrings/mixups... in another post! Because I have to study them! Because I don't have mixups ._.)

 

If they mash 2P, you can Blitz Shield them. Since it's so early in the game's lifespan you are probably not going to get re-Blitz Shielded...

It's a free 214KK or 5H > 236K for you.

 

So that's your diceroll. Spam Mappa (BDC Mappa or 5K > Mappa), then,

5K, or BDC Mappa, or Blitz Shield.

 

When you land Mappa on hit you gain a few more options than the above. You can BDC Bloodsucking Universe (works because you're closer), or you can mash on cS (5 frames!) And of course you can RC into more damage.

 

---

 

Alright, so, when you do that RC combo that ends in jD, you get a nice hard knockdown, we're gonna do stuff with that.

Once you land, 214PS (you want it to whiff). Then:

 

- press S again for "It's Late" (overhead)

- do 2K (low)

- 66 dash through and mash on cS (crossup)

- walk up and throw them or 63214H bite (or BDC bite if you want!)

 

It's Late has throw invincibility on startup so what we're assuming is that we whiff 214PS in their face, and if they try to wakeup throw we pop them with a counterhit. Should look something like this:

 

http://youtu.be/hqBD3zc-VIw

 

I just go for the easy 5K > jK > jump cancel > jK > jD again. It's still a lot of damage... But you can start with 5H, or even go into that jSHD j2K stuff if you're an offline type...

 

anyway, once you've hit them with counterhit It's Late for a while they'll stop pressing buttons (what we hope, anyway) and you can start doing whatever you want regarding mixups.

You might have to adjust your 214P timing but that's pretty much the gist of it.

 

Oh, but watch out for DPs, and watch out when they have 50 tension for an overdrive... Whiffing 214PS might get you hit.

 

---

 

so... what else? Hum.

 

Anti-airs - 6P, 2S, 236236H...

6P has upper body invincibility for 23 frames- though you don't really get anything for hitting it unless you're in the corner (214PK into the regular).

2S doesn't have any invincibility but it does hit fairly high up, so it can help you chase down opponents sometimes... 2S > jK > jump cancel > jK > jD is fine.

236236H is an overdrive with 26 frames of total invincibility... though the angle is kind of steep. It's kind of hard to followup, I guess you can try K Mappa or 632146 if you wanna burn the meter.

 

You can spend meter on a YRC to slow them down in the air, too!

 

jK seems like a good air-to-air (sometimes you'll need to do that). Just jK > jD is fine, I guess you could jump cancel if you wanted.

 

jK is also an OK jump-in. It can crossup, too. (Cool for neutral jumps, since you can still hit the opponent if they run/whiff while crossing under you).

I normally use jH for the YOLO jump-in/airdash (dat proration though... and it's a bit slow... Anyone got any ideas?)

 

Reversals... BDC bite and BDC Mappa; Dandy Step (though this can be called out); wakeup throw, if you're close enough; 236236H; Blitz Shield.

Eternal Wings (236236H) is the YOLO wakeup super; your BDC bite/Mappa is the closest thing you've got to a DP, which is why it's so important to learn.

BDC stuff can't really be mashed out so you'll probably spend a lot of your time blocking or using Faultless Defense until you really commit to your next move.

Blitz Shield feels good since it can be executed quickly and easily- but remember that your stick has to be in neutral (5 or 2, i.e. not blocking) and you still have to guess high or low, even if you have the right timing... Still, even though it costs 1/4 meter, you get a little bit of it back if you succeed, so if you think you have the read don't be shy about it, I think it pays for itself.

 

If the other guy does something really unsafe, 5H/6H > 236K should do. RC into combo or 632146S Dead On Time overdrive is up to you (DOT can't be bursted and gets Hell Fire boost... but my hands always mess up the input on this Hitbox. Doh! Also, the RC is a little more hit-confirmable).

If they're stunned for whatever reason, raw 214KK should do.

 

If you block a burst, try a fS > jSHD or 5K > jK > jD.

 

Hm, what else.

 

Don't forget about cS. cS is 5f, hits crouching opponents (unlike 5P), easily mashable/confirmable into fS for big damage...

fS is +6 on block, and jump cancelable...

cS > fS > cS > fS works on block or hit. It's kind of ridiculous...

If you mash anything in CQC it should probably be cS.

 

The only thing is that if you're too far away, fS is 13f... though, if you land 2P at that distance it'll just be a quick interrupt that you get nothing off of anyway (not to disparage quick interrupts or anything).

 

6K and 2H can hop over lows when you're playing the spacing game, though they take a little while to startup (you can't use it to dodge lows on your wakeup).

2H kinda needs meter for RC to use it right (RC > jK easy combo works well), or a counterhit/swift hands.

 

Uhhhh... Hm, is that all I have to say?

 

Don't use 5D - I guess? I don't really like it. The range isn't so good, you have 6K, It's Late, and command throw... and if you hit it, well you don't get hard knockdown, so you have to deal with your opponent teching above you while you land...

Just seems too messy to me.

You could probably pull it out if you had your opponent smack dab in the corner though. (But watch that spacing).

 

2D reaches pretty far for a low (slide like M. Bison)

Hard knockdown so you can do the 214PS stuff.

You could probably use it to catch backdashes or backwalking... It's unsafe if you do it too close, but meaty or from a distance should do fine (maybe even give you +!)

Just be careful cause it just doesn't cover distance as fast as a good Mappa.

 

 

Okey, I think that's it. Thanks to everyone in the topic for posting stuff in the first place so I could x-copy it...

[Wirya]

Oh yeah, damn, it seems like 2S-6H gatling is gone. It was boss. 

[fogelstrom]

You left out quite a bit of stuff, mostly damage.
I don't see the point in putting such emphasis on more advanced stuff like BDC over actually getting damage.
Imo it's easier and best to learn combos first and then gameplay and not the other way around. But maybe that's just me.
Also Dust in general is really viable since you can always gatling into it. Just because it doesn't give oki isn't reason enough to leave it out of your game. 2K, 5D is good on block and you get some 150dmg.

The write-up seem kinda lacking and like a flowchart, your online flowchart? But I don't really see how it's beneficial for anyone.

[Drake Aldan]

I don't see the point in putting such emphasis on more advanced stuff like BDC over actually getting damage.

Imo it's easier and best to learn combos first and then gameplay and not the other way around. But maybe that's just me.

 

More complicated combos (re: damage) fall apart online, as does playing with any sort of subtlety or finesse... BDC Mappa is pretty easy to spam, though.

BDC Mappa seems to solve a few problems that Dandy Step has, since you can adjust the invul period by lengthening the backdash if you need to. And it's not so hard to execute. (And you're not forced to come back in or spend meter on YRC if you don't want to...)

 

Anyhoo.

 

http://youtu.be/zVRkvupWu8Q

 

Someone explain this to me... Does 2D (or El's 5H) have some property that's not listed on the wiki?

[fogelstrom]

More complicated combos (re: damage) fall apart online, as does playing with any sort of subtlety or finesse... BDC Mappa is pretty easy to spam, though.

BDC Mappa seems to solve a few problems that Dandy Step has, since you can adjust the invul period by lengthening the backdash if you need to. And it's not so hard to execute. (And you're not forced to come back in or spend meter on YRC if you don't want to...)

 

Anyhoo.

 

http://youtu.be/zVRkvupWu8Q

 

Someone explain this to me... Does 2D (or El's 5H) have some property that's not listed on the wiki?

I do "complicated" combos online e.g. 5K, 236K, CWH, c.S, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD. Even with 5F delay these days. But obviously it's far from consistent but I always go for it.

I also personally prefer to call out people with Pilebunker after Mappa to stop them from mashing (if I have meter to spend for RC ofc). I tend to get alot more respect these days but it all comes down to reading your opponent on what to do after Mappa.

 

2D has lowered hitbox so you can slide under Elphelt 5HS and get CH. (to my understanding)

However Elphelt can YRC ANY of her 6 shots because they are all counted as individual inputs so she can YRC 5HS at 6 different points. So she can 5HHH, YRC, 2S and get CH for stagger and combo. It's ridiculous. If the Elph knows and does this you can't do anything vs 5HS if she has meter. Eventually they will stop using YRC and get free 5HS shots when you only stand around doing nothing.

 

[Drake Aldan]

I also personally prefer to call out people with Pilebunker after Mappa to stop them from mashing (if I have meter to spend for RC ofc).

 

214PP, right? (Not the K Dandy.) If I'm reading this right, Pilebunker doesn't have any invincibility or anything, it's just fast with a big hitbox- so you have to Pilebunker ASAP to not get hit out of your Dandy, right?

[Loli-Zero]

Yeah, dandy has a few frames of invuln, and then once you hit the window you can cancel from, pilebunker is an additional few frames. Pilebunker is for the hard call out. BDC Mappa should be your default in most cases.

I actually disagree with fogel on a few things. First off, that flowchart you describe is incredibly important. You can scrub bust players with BDC Mappa alone. That's a really good thing to focus on for new players, because It teaches them how to beat mashing so that they can go for better stuff (mixups and gimmicks). In other words it teaches you how to condition. While I don't think damage is the first thing to focus on, I will say on characters that are not Potemkin you (or your friend) should just learn to use 5HS j.S(1) j.HS j.D for air juggles. This isn't very hard at all, does a bigger chunk of damage then what you listed, and is the beginning of what you would do later for bnbs. If the 5HS link is hard just do 5S but keep the air combo. It also gives you that j.D at a good height for oki.

I agree with fogel however that dust is good. It can become a crutch for new players though, so it won't kill him not to use it. When you do use it Id recommend 2K-5D to set it up, and ending your air combo in j.D footloose for max damage (since you don't get oki anyway).

My only other advice, is don't forget that you can't combo off of its late and have it be throw invuln at the same time (for those setups). So do it fast for a comboable overhead and delayed for a perfect throw bait.

Overall it's a good write up for a beginner. I'd include a few more things probably. But it depends on how much info the person in question can process

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