[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Dandy Chippu]

How does back dashing out of oki work, are there certain moves slayer cant back dash other than far reaching, active moves?

[RoBoBOBR]

Sl has like 13F post throw on Chipp (and even less on ppl that get up faster), due to the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  animation. That's not enough for UP whiffing.

[fogelstrom]

How does back dashing out of oki work, are there certain moves slayer cant back dash other than far reaching, active moves?

As far to my understanding you can backdash any move unless it has 21 active frames.

If you BDJC your jump startup frames are covered by the backdash invul so you will always jump but can get stuck in the early jump by active frames, obivously forced to FD or get hit.

His backdash is really strong but with 2F reversal window to time it's difficult. I end up taking match losses because I failed to reversal backdash meatys.

EDIT*

What Robo said is also correct. No UP wiff for ground throw. A bit to hasty reply with not enough thought behind.

[Melo]

Midscreen, if you really want to GTFO, you can use bdc kdandy yrc.

In ac+r, negative edge made kdandy frc a pretty easy way to escape Eddie's drill UB Midscreen (but when does that happen lol).

Side note: fuck zato. His drills makes movement on the ground annoying as fuck and i can't hit him out of his flight . This is probably my worst matchup.

[RoBoBOBR]

Negative edge is gone, so that will remain +r tech.

[Melo]

I didn't mean to imply that nenegative was in Xrd, simply that raw dandy frc was a means to escape the UB. Sorry about the ambiguity in my post.

I assume it's still possible though with k dandy yrc, just harder to be consistent no?

[RoBoBOBR]

Zato's midscreen unblockable is a bit shit this days, but if he goes for it  yes 214K YRC will help. But it's better to get reversal backdash down - this will also help in the corner, where dandy step wont.

[fogelstrom]

Isn't the Drill a projectile? And Dandy only has strike invul? I'm not really good with specifics but in my head Dandy get hits. if the projectile doesn't count as physical hit?

Anyway I don't see why'd you wanna spend 25% meter for Dandy YRC when you can just backdash/BDJC. It's the same reversal window for them both.

You can spend 25% meter to blitz yourself out of the UB as well. Obivously it's a gamble wether low or overhead will hit first but you should be able to deduce by looking how the player sets up and performs the UB what to blitz. Except if you are playing against Ogawa who has the meatiest UB ever and then just roll over and die. 

But if you can accurately perform BDJC against corner UB you won't cry as heavily when trying to sleep that night.

[Loli-Zero]

Does BDC jump actually get you out of corner unblockable anymore? I thought "1 frame jumping" doesn't pull your hit box up anymore, so slayer can't BDC jump out of setups like that. Or maybe I made that up?

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[fogelstrom]

Doesn't the initial invul cover the jump startup frames? You would get stuck in the air forced to FD block so you'd probably spend around 20% tension regardless but 20% tension vs 150dmg isn't that bad of a trade off...

 

[Loli-Zero]

I dunno, I just thought you couldn't do it anymore. But maybe I'm wrong. I'll mess around with it tomorrow

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[fogelstrom]

I know 1FJ doesn't exist in Xrd but even so the amount of invul gained from BDC should be enough to cover.
A friend and me tried I-No note oki setups vs Slayer to see if he could get out of everything and thus render her note oki useless against Slayer.
We could jump out of almost everything but the ones we couldn't jump got us stuck in the air with FD.

There wasn't ever any issue not actually being able to BDJC at all at any point of our testing.

[RoBoBOBR]

Isn't the Drill a projectile? And Dandy only has strike invul? I'm not really good with specifics but in my head Dandy get hits. if the projectile doesn't count as physical hit?

 

strike invul works against projectiles. strike invul doesn't work against throws. 

 

Also BDC jump covers a bit of jump start-up and then you have to FD. 1F jump was the same, it only cut 1F off the start-up time, nothing magical.

[moonburn_]

If the strike invulnerability works against projectiles, what am I doing wrong against venom/ky that I keep eating them when I 6[6]?

[Martikol]

It means you're not fast enough / too early, that's what 2f only buffer does.

[4r5]

Forward dash is not invul immediately. Long Dash also seems to become momentarily vulnerable where a short dash would end.

[Qu_Ane]

This is out of place, but could someone kindly tell me what Slayer's game is like, generally speaking? I've been trying to main someone in Xrd, and he seems like he has very clear set of normals and mix-ups. Mostly based on disappearing/backing out before attacks. But I might be wrong. In any case, I just enjoy a simple game of footsies for the most part (yeah I know, I don't belong XP) but I'm trying to step up my game and learn some new things. I was hoping to find a character close to my style, at least.

[Benbeeach]

You might want to try Ky, but yes Slayer is a character who is straight forward on the surface, using his advantage on normals and "basic" mixups to overwhelm his opponent into being afraid to press buttons. 

The higher level you get the harder and more varied all of this becomes, but the character can be pretty straight forward (and successful to varying degrees) if thats how one chooses to play. 

Also let me add that I've read every page of this thread, and it's made my transition over from Accent Core very smooth. It took a while as Slayer isn't as easy necessarily to translate from one game to another as Sol was, but the posts in here, tips, etc have all been uber helpful. Learned so much again, so quickly

[fogelstrom]

Also let me add that I've read every page of this thread, and it's made my transition over from Accent Core very smooth. It took a while as Slayer isn't as easy necessarily to translate from one game to another as Sol was, but the posts in here, tips, etc have all been uber helpful. Learned so much again, so quickly

 

This. From JP release (4 Dec) an onward mostly everything has already been discussed.

[Gobosss]

Since my last post I busted my ass for doing every single tip that was given to me.

 

And I thank you all for it.

 

In the following, I'll give you my conclusion about (around) 150 online matches (most of them lost).

 

At first I was frustrated, yeah, i even blamed the lag (4/5f is quite long for slayer imo). Then I figured out something, during the usuals slayer pressings

K, UP, UP(whiff)IL, UP IL, UP(whiff) 2K etc etc... people don't respect you. You know why ? 2P <--- this beat everything. And trust me, when i say everything. I'm still testing every move Slayer have to counter that dumb move that 90% of the players (even the good ones) spam.

 

I was like "How the hell is that possible ?"

IL is +1 on block, so when the opponent mash his 2P (5F) you'll surely get a hit if you 2K (6F) and maybe get ahead if you 2P (5F). So 5P is legit against the whole online community ? Wrong. Most of the time (and I insist) you'll get IB. Their precious 2P become a 3F mash (remember IL+1 - IB -3).

I tried bdc mappaP, which work on the initial 2P, but you'll sure as hell get hit by the second one (yeah mashers...)

I also tried dandy (1-3F inv), when you time it correctly, you get away (from your pressing) and get pwn if you do P/K/S/H after it. So, to avoid this, you have to spend 25% on a YRC.

 

When the 2P / 2K (5f) come out, if it's a hit low, you can 2H. But if the opponent IB you go back to neutral.

 

So yeah... the so called "UnderPressure" pressing / mixe up doesn't really exist in those conditions.

 

I end up trying various things. Like dashing through hits and giggle with cS fS cS fS 2k 2D, and mash 2P in opponent pressing to get a 2Px5 combo (yeah i'm salty :p).

 

So in conclusion as a rookie slayer you have to :

 

- Dash a lot, BDC a lot

- Go neutral after UP/IL

- Spam as much as you can K and 2K

- Convert every hit

 

Any tips to get me out of this mashing fest ? (i'm actually re-reading the whole thread to get "more into it").

 

 

I can't find anywhere the invul frame for the foward dash, anyone know when they occure ?

Thank Mates

[Martikol]

Yeah, mashers are a big problem in slayer's gameplan which almost destroys 80% of his oki (I'm exaggerating but you get the idea). I tried doing 2H after whiffed UP but that doesn't really work kappa.

 

But I have problems of my own:

- random 2H while being pressured or on incoming, a good idea? The reason that I use this is I want to take advantage of its lower body invul.

- I know that random dandys isnt generally recommended. But my idea on dandying alot was to be always moving (that's what I noticed when hase plays, he's always moving).

- Lastly, how the hell am I getting grabbed during IL? I think it has something to do when I try to do it after a deep sweep, but most of the times that I get thrown I can SEE the startup animation of IL. Isn't the throw invul of that frames starts at 1F?

[fogelstrom]

Stuff

You need to call people out for mashing. use Pilebunker. That and really knowing your frame traps.

I have not tested extreme 2P mashing in training mode but after IL you can go straight into K Dandy and PB.

BDC Bite is ridiculously good in situations like these if you actually can pull it off consistently.

BDC Dandy also helps. Hase does that. BDC 214P-S-HS (S wiffing)

BDJC, IAD will also beat people mashing 2P and resets your pressure up close. Be vary of people good at blocking/IB and throwing when you land so that you alter whatever you do from the air to space yourself or whatnot. j.D, 214K for example.

 

Yeah, mashers are a big problem in slayer's gameplan which almost destroys 80% of his oki (I'm exaggerating but you get the idea). I tried doing 2H after whiffed UP but that doesn't really work kappa.

 

But I have problems of my own:

- random 2H while being pressured or on incoming, a good idea? The reason that I use this is I want to take advantage of its lower body invul.

- I know that random dandys isnt generally recommended. But my idea on dandying alot was to be always moving (that's what I noticed when hase plays, he's always moving).

- Lastly, how the hell am I getting grabbed during IL? I think it has something to do when I try to do it after a deep sweep, but most of the times that I get thrown I can SEE the startup animation of IL. Isn't the throw invul of that frames starts at 1F?

You have to manage the frame gaps. If you do wiff UP and people mash you have to do wiffed UP faster so the gap between IL startup and active is 5F or less. Then you'll CH trade in worst case against normals and that gives you 200+dmg easily anywhere anytime.

 

IL has 14F startup and 13F throw invul. Either you are misstiming the startup frames or they are grabbing you on the last frame. That is possible. No way around that IL is still throwable but it's 1F vs getting CH'd for 200+dmg. With RISC and meter usage you are probably capping 300 in the corner. If someone is mashing and randomly hitting this last frame don't get hung up on it. Your opponent made a lucky mistake without any knowledge. Sh!t happens.

All in all conditioning people is KEY. You need to educate people by letting them know what they can and can't do. Slayer isn't easy work anymore. It takes time and without respect you are going to get bodied alot. You need to learn how to earn it. Oh and on Woshige's latest tier list he placed Slayer dead last in the whole game so yeah, that's what you got to work with ^^;

[Gobosss]

Well, i'll try the bdjc iad, all the other possibility (except bdc bite, that i can't perform) get beat by 2pxN

 

And honestly, how educate people who win 100% with 2p mashing ? If you want to keep pressure you need to do extrem hard stuff such as 6321447h...

[fogelstrom]

You don't have to do the hardest stuff.
You can go simple. Use frame traps with normals only and use footsies instead.
5K is +3 on block, 2K is +4 on block you can 2K, 2HS for example.

Any normal to IAD pressure...
After anything to 236P you are -1 but you can IAD and use 5K/5HS. Depending on character 6HS.

People mashing 2P isn't the death of Slayer. It's helluva annoying but you have to know how to beat it. It might be boring but that's just the way it is for Slayer this time around unfortunately.
 

[Martikol]

so... random 2H, 2D and mappa. any notes on those?

 

Though I have already noticed this, and I'm already YRC airgrabing those pesky IADing opponents. hase doesn't seem to care too much for tension. He likes to raw YRC a lot in neutral, any thoughts on that?