[Xrd] May Gameplay Discussion

[freelander]

early this year when the first footage came out, she seemed super lame. But now that I know more about her, maybe I will main her. Btw did you guys just download the japanese version? Are there English menus in that? What about the VAs (only Japanese)?  

[Justice7541]

So I've using May to do missions and it seems she lacks damage off most starters? Unless she can punish with OHK or the mission gives you meter for RC it seems difficult to pump out a lot of damage even if you get a counterhit.

Am I wrong about this or should I just start using Ram-chan for easy meterless damage in trials?

[ChexGuy]

Btw did you guys just download the japanese version? Are there English menus in that? What about the VAs (only Japanese)?  

the Japanese version is the only one available right now, and it has English audio/text as well.

 

(I pre-ordered the US LE orz)

[kokujindayo]

So, how are you supposed to deal with Ramlethal as May? My friend and I are new to GG and during our sets whenever I start to gain any momentum he will keep using her target combos to stuff whatever I throw out. Same with when I try to anti air or try to meet him air to air with a S/HS, he jumps mashing punch and it counter hits me. I am getting a little flustered and have been watching match videos on what to do but I feel as though I have my back against the wall for the majority of the time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you

[BloodWolF]

I fight a couple of Rams here as well. They pull the j.p every time they go into the air and stagger her dash attacks when on the ground. j.S is also a pain due to its far reaching horizontal hitbox. It's like the her f.S, so she'll use it often to keep you out. You can try just empty jumping and block it or air-grab her. I find that she usually j.Ps on reaction to my jumps, so air grab may not work so well, however. When you're grounded, if they go for daruo (that green rush move), then block and punish. If they're trying to space you out with f.S, back dash out and throw an otter/dolphin to mess up their spacing game. We're all pretty new at this, but keep at it. I've been faring well against our local Rams and the ones I've fought online. I'll have to get some replays and really pay attention to what I'm doing that seems to turn the tide and let you know. I'll see if I can get that when I get off work. Hopefully we can get some matchup threads soon.

 

Also, just throwing some stuff out that I've noticed during training/matches:

 

FD dash cancelling seems very important with May due to her long dash recovery.

 

To hit Ky with 2D > [4]6HS, you have to be very close. I've found that j.2HS > 2D > [4]6HS will not land on him, however 2K > 2D > [4]6HS will at very close range. So we'll have to change some setups against him. This may be the case for others, but I haven't really played against everyone yet (no Millia/Pot/Zato/Axl).

 

You keep momentum during dolphin YRC, so doing [4]6HS > YRC > low/OHK is a fun thing to throw in when you're spacing them out with 5K/5S.

 

For corner oki, P loop leads to good mixup that gives good damage and oki (see the corner setup video on the second page of the video thread). The IAD in those combos is very tight though, so it'll take a bit of practice like many of her setups.

 

I've found that Elphelt specifically seems to have a lot of tools that work well against May. Her AA champagne hits directly above her which hurts our j.2HS bad on reaction. The fact that her grenade has a hitbox can easily shut down our dolphin approaches. Her air-to-air game is very good against us as well. It could just be my inexperience, but she seems like a pain for us.

 

These are just some observations I can think of off-hand atm. I'll post more when it comes to me. Once we get a matchup thread for each characters, I'll start throwing stuff in there instead.

[kokujindayo]

Thank you for the detailed explanation Blood. I guess really the only thing I can do at this point is to just keep working on pressure, block strings, dolphin/ball setups, etc... It's very frustrating to keep losing but this is only day 3 and I shouldn't really be expecting big results within such a short period of time. 

 

Also, do you think 2HS > [2]8HS would be a good anti-air? It seems like a good option but I have to do it a bit preemptively since it's so slow.

[BloodWolF]

If you know they're coming, then yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. The main drawback, like you said, is the speed. I find myself gaining advantage and setup time a lot with a raw [2]8HS on reaction to their jump after I block their strings. At this point in the game, I'd say learn a couple combos and get your neutral down. This game is very neutral heavy and being comfortable there will win you more games than some fancy combos. You'll also find yourself much more comfortable to go for the nicer combos when you have a feel for the game engine and character as a whole. We're not even a week in. Don't fret over some losses or even losing EVERYTHING if that's the situation. Remember, there are people who don't even have access to it yet and you're already building MU experience and everything. Losing is part of learning, so take the losses, review them, and work on what you did wrong.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

I'll make matchup threads when we get a matchup subforum but to cover some stuff brought up so far.

 

My friend and I are new to GG and during our sets whenever I start to gain any momentum he will keep using her target combos to stuff whatever I throw out.

Sounds like your pressure is too loose or you're being too aggressive/predictable with your pressure. The former will get fixed over time since it's still week 1. In the case of the latter, Varying your pressure in ways that will discourage Ram players from trying to mash out with target combos can help. Sometimes though, it's best to back off and let things reset back to neutral than to risk getting opened up by trying to keep your pressure going by trying to get back in. It depends on your current situation and options. The only solid thing I can recommend for this is to grab some replays of your matches and take note of where you got mashed out by Ram's target combo. Think about why it happened and what you could have done differently to avoid this or possibly even punish it.

 

 Same with when I try to anti air or try to meet him air to air with a S/HS, he jumps mashing punch and it counter hits me.

This is kind of confusing for me. If you are trying to meet them in the air, shouldn't the Ramlethal player be already in the air and not jumping after you've jumped? I need more info to help with this one. Maybe we should start by clarifying what the root of the problem is. What is the Ramlethal player doing that you're having trouble with?

On another topic lightly touched on, Sword Equipped f.S and j.S definitely seem like good normals from what I've watched but their range is only to be feared in terms of horizontal reach. f.S can be jumped over and j.S is mostly a threat when you're at the same height in the air. It's got more recovery on it than f.S so it's more dangerous for Ram players to whiff, especially if they get the spacing wrong. I don't remember many Rams using j.S much, if at all, in the matches I've watched so there's definitely flaws that can be exploited.

[Kyle]

- for direct feedback, try to post vids. Thisius huge in your own development of play

- against ram-jam, you get to j.IB and gain air options all day. Fun fun

- finally played a few hours! I learned a shit load! Her ideal meterless DMG is reload style: IAD j.lp,j.k, j.h,land rejump. OR j.s,j.hs, land, rejump into extended air bnb and knockdown.

KY always misses on hs-horiz-dolphins b/c he falls fast/thin. Also, hs-hd has much more startup than s-hd in this version. Soo weird. Never have the startup frames differed. #XRD

[Kyle]

In general, her CH game is less rewarding but her abare is still high. Almost like playing as testament. Need to turn stray projectile hits into complete combos.

[kokujindayo]

snip

 

That was my mistake, I meant when he jumps in the air with punches and I try to jump in beat him with jump S/HS it's not working. I can't figure out a good way to beat it. Unfortunately he couldn't play today so I will have to wait until tomorrow to get any footage vs him. However, one thing I did notice when I watched my online replay sessions is that I go for 2D into [4]6HS/S way to much (and it whiffs the majority of the time due to the blockstring I am doing). I need to start throwing out more dolphins/beach balls and work more on my neutral game with her in general.

 

snip

 

I actually got a couple of matches recorded today. One where I won and one where I lost vs an Elphelt player. Here is the link for them... even though it's really bad any type of criticism is greatly appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7vIat1Lc9w

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEgC_lwflw

[Speakeasy]

Okay, so I'm still shopping for a main/sub in Xrd and I think I've settled on May (almost entirely because I love her nautical pirate aesthetic and her English voice doesn't make me want to tear my ears off) for at least sub. What's her playstyle? At locals, I was playing her as a kind of funky zoner (keeping people out with f.S and her bigger attacks, using janky dolphin/ball setups, making use of her mobility and dolphin approaches to stay moving and hard to pin down, etc), but I was told she works better as rushdown. How I do I dolphin?

[BloodWolF]

My best recommendation would be to go to the video thread and watch the high level players. You'll see how she properly utilizes her different tools and decide if it looks fun/appealing to you.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

That was my mistake, I meant when he jumps in the air with punches and I try to jump in beat him with jump S/HS it's not working. I can't figure out a good way to beat it.

 

I see. Well, the problems you were having trying to meet them in the air make sense then. Usually, when you jump up to intercept an opponent already in the air, you want to use your fastest air normals because you are trying to hit them out of whatever they plan to do before they can do it. If you try to use slower normals like j.S and j.H in these situations, your chances of success will be lower than had you used j.P or j.K (j.A in other ASW games like BB and Persona). That said, since the opponent is already using their fastest normal in this case, I don't think this tactic will work. Maybe if you use j.K because of its rising hitbox? You'll have to test in training mode. From the videos I've watched, it seems to be the other way around. Ram players are going to want to jump up and hit you out of whatever you're doing with j.PxN.

So the scenario is Ram is already up in the air, mashing j.P. Hmmmmmmmm. The idea Kyle mentioned about jump IBing seems solid. Back dashing to create some space to work with could help. If you're already in the air, a well spaced j.S could probably beat it. Try testing it in training mode. If you're not already in the air, jumping back away from the Ram instead of forward to intercept might be able to create the space you need for j.S to outspace it at certain distances.  Can't think of anything else until I have the game next week to test stuff out in training mode. Also, everything I've said so far is based on if she still has her swords equipped instead of set. If she has swords set, you'll have to figure out what are your best options more dynamically based on where the swords are set. Might have to settle for just blocking in some cases

 

 

However, one thing I did notice when I watched my online replay sessions is that I go for 2D into [4]6HS/S way to much (and it whiffs the majority of the time due to the blockstring I am doing). I need to start throwing out more dolphins/beach balls and work more on my neutral game with her in general.

 

You definitely want to branch out in terms of blockstrings. In terms of your options, just ending with 2D isn't terrible. A blockstring that chains into spaced f.S is good because you seem to have a lot of options from it. From what I can tell in match videos, you can do IAD j.S or jump back to return to neutral. You can do the usual [4]6S route. Once you've got your opponent expecting the other options from f.S, you can try every now and then to go for a P or K Applause for the Victim dolphin summon. Mess around with blockstrings in training mode, both with and without beach ball and/or dolphin oki. I'm sure you'll find lots of good ways to vary your pressure.

 

 

I actually got a couple of matches recorded today. One where I won and one where I lost vs an Elphelt player. Here is the link for them... even though it's really bad any type of criticism is greatly appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7vIat1Lc9w

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEgC_lwflw

 

I don't want to say too much because its still Week 1 and both you and your opponent are still trying to figure stuff out and get familiar with things. 2 things did catch my eye though that I feel is worth bringing up.

The first thing is your choice of summons in neutral. When you summoned, you usually went for the beach ball. This may not be the right choice in this particular MU. Normally, the beach ball is good because the trajectory it takes serves as a great wall that greatly discourages your opponent from rushing in. It's great against more rushdown oriented characters but against a character like Elphelt who has good ranged options like her grenade and her rifle stance, it isn't as effective. In instances where you choose to summon something, I'd consider leaning more towards an P, S or HS Applause for the Victim dolphin because they'd work better at shutting down her options in neutral, making it easier for you to approach and get things started.

The second thing is blockstrings but we already covered that earlier and week 1. Just wanted to emphasize it by bringing it up again.

[Frank The Tank]

Couple of notes:

-When comboing to Ensenga? you need to make sure that they're high enough so that the 2nd hit won't otg. This leaves you at what feels like a slight disadvantage if they tech, and it also denies you the sweet new oki setups that we have now.

 

-Speaking of sweet new setups, basic stuff off of a corner KD:

(High) P Hoop YRC, 6K, release (NOTE: if you're far enough away your followup differs based on whether or not you hop onto the dolphin. If you don't, just combo to sweep and set up another hoop. If you do, then airdash off of it with j.S>H and then combo back to sweep>P hoop.)
(Low) 2D, H HDolphin, IAD release > j.S>H, dash rejump combo to Ensenga?

May seems way more zoning&Oki focused now. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but it's fun for now.

[Kyle]

My j.IB comment was in context of playing neutral/ zoning against ram-jam. Not to beat her j.lp spam. Also, the "fastest' attack for an air to air is an air throw! Jump into her and grab a bitch. If my opponent was genuinely abusing j.p to go aerial, I would fish w/ CH 6HS for big damage

[Kyle]

I will dive into this project in a few weeks everyone. Just need the western release

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks for the clarifications/corrections, especially the air throw one. I always forget the throw option. Need to put it in big, flashing letters in my notes so I don't forget, lol.

 

Also, we have a matchup forum now so I'll make the matchup threads later tonight.

[Kyle]

Plz don't. We don't need 16 empty threads yet

[WhattayaBrian]

So every combo I've seen seems to involve an RC.  What is May supposed to be doing while gaining that 50 meter?  All of the meterless combos I've seen have been mostly 2P > 2K > 2D > HDolphin, other than OHK and Dust combos, which are hard to get off (at least for me).

 

Am I just supposed to be delaying until I have the meter?

[Sashi]

That's every character, though. Just get the knockdown.

[Kyle]

Have the game!!! Got some serious training mode in.

Some details on her BnB combos:

Crouching only - ... HS, S-HD, RC, 66D ^, Ender

Corner meterless: 2D, HS-HD, Link IAD J.P, J.K, J.HS, Land, rejump, Ender

Midscreen standing: 2D/HS, HS-HD, LATE RC, Early Air Dash, Late J.HS, land, IAD, J.S, J.HS, land, rejump, Ender

Throw, RC, hoopset, 6[HS] is fucked up hard. Shit autocorrects as the opponent cross the Y-Axis. Need to figure out a consistent way to ignore turn around frames & fave the desired direction.

OKI hoopset is usually P

[Kyle]

We cannot OHK kara FD as a offensive OS. we we CAN dash split OHK for a running comma nage~

 

63214, 6, 5, [6], delay K

[kokujindayo]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Had a good set the other day and I am improving a bit on my game plan in general. Going for more varied combos and am able to confirm off of stray air counter hits easier now. Even managed to get two perfects the other day so that made me happy. 

[Kyle]

you can link on standing: ...S-HD, RC, D, Ender

 

But there is no frames for a microdash.

 

I am beginning to update the combo thread.