[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[LearningToPlay]

Begging your pardon if this is the wrong place to vent my frustrations, but the more I watch videos of older versions of the game, the more I am missing the creepy factor in Guilty Gear, especially of old Eddie/Zato-1. Everything is too shiny and smooth for my liking. The creepy/horro/gritty/angsty/monsterous side of Guilty Gear is gone or nearly gone.

 

Before character choice gave variety. It used to be: 

 

A. Ridiculously cutesy girl types (May, Elphelt)

B. Creepy but still cutesy girl types (A.B.B.A., Dizzy)

C. Voted most popular high school football fighter guy types (most characters)

D. Creepy horror guy types (Testament, old Eddie, Zappa)

E. Robot types (Robo-ky, Justice) 

F. Weird as f*ck types (Faust, Bedman)

G. Sexy but tough girl types (Millia, I-No)

 

 

Now in Xrd they've eliminated B and E, and nearly eliminated D, watering down Zato the last holdout. 

 

So allow me to list a few things here, if you will, since it is most obvious to me in Zato/Eddie as he has returned. 

 

1. Zato/Eddie now looks more friendly. Since when are raised from the dead, back from the underworld, bound-to-demon types supposed to be crossing the line headed to popcorn-sparkly? Less dragons, less demons, less skulls, less spikes, less scary demon hands, more friendly PG-rated creatures, more robot-puppy big eyed dog Eddie faces/heads. I don't play May for a reason, OK, I like my characters with some angst.   

2. Testament is gone. No more Grim Reaper visuals, no more icky funk, no more blood or slime. 

3. Gone is ABBA, creepy, bloody, bandaged girl. 

4. I miss Zappa and his incredible Eastern world spirits of the dead. 

 

Obviously there isn't much for me to do but enjoy the game for what it is and lament what is gone. Maybe I can hope some new future character will somehow be the embodiment of what old Eddie was for me. Rant ending. 

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Well, too bad because IT IS ZATO SAMA~, not Eddie.

 

I don't see anything wrong. It's the old Zato we used to love from GG1 and GGX (except, of course, lack of feelings and emotions).

[LearningToPlay]

But but but... he doesn't look the same! Zato's form will always be Zato, but Eddie is supposed to be a real monster. I'd like much closer to 50 % of his personification on screen to be creepy. I mean the game still says "Heaven or Hell", but it's closer to "Heaven or Ice cream-sugary-sweet-Hell" nowadays. Where are the cool badass badguys? 

[Antihero11]

But but but... he doesn't look the same! Zato's form will always be Zato, but Eddie is supposed to be a real monster. I'd like much closer to 50 % of his personification on screen to be creepy. I mean the game still says "Heaven or Hell", but it's closer to "Heaven or Ice cream-sugary-sweet-Hell" nowadays. Where are the cool badass badguys? 

I half agree with you. There's something about his old combos and the subtle aesthetic changes that make old Eddie more appealing than new Zato. And the introduction of Ephelt definitely made the game more "lovey-dovey". Which is lame...

 

Even so, I think Zato is pretty dark. I mean, he uses his shadow to fight, his instant kill eats their shadow and basically takes their soul. I think he's a pretty angst character still. And the awesome gameplay is still there.

Just for old time's sake, best combo video ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdhGoX-eINY

 

[stickystaines]

stuff

Im not an experienced Zato by any stretch, but if you want to learn to unsummon safely, then get used to doing -s- then unsummon as soon as it touches the opponent. You still get a combo if it hits (pretty tight though) and leaves them in enough blockstun that they cant punish you.

 

I assume in that combo you're doing that the S drill doesn't hit them and is just used to stop them from poking or approaching from the ground, but they can still air dash over it, so it doesn't seem safe.

[president]

I'm just asking to check, but in your guys experience, what are some things that Pot tends to catch you out of or cause some annoyance or ANYTHING that has any kind of meaning that isn't just blocking everything perfectly? I'm asking as Pot player

 

Flipping drills is pretty annoying. Other than that I think the matchup is ridiculous and Zato can mostly do whatever he wants unless the Potemkin player is some kind of super hard reading god.

[Kane-Z]

Im not an experienced Zato by any stretch, but if you want to learn to unsummon safely, then get used to doing -s- then unsummon as soon as it touches the opponent. You still get a combo if it hits (pretty tight though) and leaves them in enough blockstun that they cant punish you.

I assume in that combo you're doing that the S drill doesn't hit them and is just used to stop them from poking or approaching from the ground, but they can still air dash over it, so it doesn't seem safe.

Well, actually that drill is supposed to put the opponent in blockstun (I forgot to add but the drill is released with a Nobiru). I might have to modify that blockstring a bit but I could end with HS drill as well (if I let all the hits from f.S hit). The YRC just makes the unsummon safer but it's probably unnecessary.

My friend seems to have some experience with playing against Eddies back in Reload so he often blocks the high/low mix up after the Mawaru. I'm just wondering whats the best way to safely unsummon and restart the pressure again. I guess it really depends on the matchup but some general tips on how to safely unsummon would be nice.

[Gasaraki]

But but but... he doesn't look the same! Zato's form will always be Zato, but Eddie is supposed to be a real monster. I'd like much closer to 50 % of his personification on screen to be creepy. I mean the game still says "Heaven or Hell", but it's closer to "Heaven or Ice cream-sugary-sweet-Hell" nowadays. Where are the cool badass badguys? 

 

I don't know if this will satisfy you but, if you read the glossary/watch the story mode, you learn that going through death and being revived changed both Zato's AND Eddie's personalities. I actually like how Zato ended up, he's stoic, but he feels very wise now, and Eddie feels like he's more of his ally than a monster to control.

 

Also you forgot about Pot who basically fills the robot category now, even though he isn't one. Then there's Ram who is basically a B type, especially if you put Dizzy in that category.

 

I agree on your "D" section, but that was already a rather small part of it as you only listed 3 characters. For the most part I don't think the ratio of grotesque/tough guy/pretty boy/cute girl/tough girl has changed that much

 

 

Flipping drills is pretty annoying. Other than that I think the matchup is ridiculous and Zato can mostly do whatever he wants unless the Potemkin player is some kind of super hard reading god.

 

Yeah, I guessed as much =(

[president]

I guess it really depends on the matchup but some general tips on how to safely unsummon would be nice.

 

Let Eddie handle it. If you unsummon nobiru on block you end up at slight frame advantage. If you really want to force it you can try something like 2H, pause, nobiru release, unsummon. Should be airtight if everything is timed properly. This part of playing Zato is mostly freestyled, I sometimes run into projectiles to block on purpose (Faust matchup...) so I can actually get Eddie offline before he dies.

 

Also here's a comboroute for all the aspiring Zatos to practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbVWpSbZft8

[huber]

Cool idea in that video.  Gives me some ideas.  Thanks!

[Kane-Z]

Gotcha, I guess I was overthinking. As long as we have the opponent in some kinda of blockstun it should usually be safe to unsummon and continue our pressure.

 

Nice unblockable route.

[LearningToPlay]

I don't know if this will satisfy you but, if you read the glossary/watch the story mode, you learn that going through death and being revived changed both Zato's AND Eddie's personalities. I actually like how Zato ended up, he's stoic, but he feels very wise now, and Eddie feels like he's more of his ally than a monster to control.

 

Also you forgot about Pot who basically fills the robot category now, even though he isn't one. Then there's Ram who is basically a B type, especially if you put Dizzy in that category.

 

I agree on your "D" section, but that was already a rather small part of it as you only listed 3 characters. For the most part I don't think the ratio of grotesque/tough guy/pretty boy/cute girl/tough girl has changed that much

 

 

 

Thanks, I haven't been through the story in depth yet, sort of whizzed through it, so I didn't understand that Eddie himself was changed. But I still wish he was more monstrous. From what I've seen, I do like Zato's personality on screen for Xrd. 

 

And you are right about Pot filling the robot part... it occurred to me when I was watching a video of Leo and his robot guy. I hadn't considered Ram for some reason, but you are right there as well... the mouth/tooth cape thing has me mystified now.   

 

In the end, I miss the creepy stuff, but the game as a whole is definitely great looking. Who knows, maybe when they bring back some other characters I'll get my complete fix. 

[Phantom Angel]

Anybody got any tips for Challenge 33? I can't get the Small Attack and Dust to combo...

[stickystaines]

Anybody got any tips for Challenge 33? I can't get the Small Attack and Dust to combo...

Press and release -p- at the same rhythm of the other gatlings. Forgot the exact combo but basically its [k], , [d], press release p and keep all those presses around the same time. Your ultimate aim is to have the -p- right in between the 5s and 5d hits, but keeping the same rhythm should be about right for you to get it.

[Marz]

Yea the game definitely doesn't give off the same type of semi-horror feel that AC does.

Even if Testament and Zappa were in I think it wouldn't due to the stages and overall aesthetic being too bright. Some of the stages in AC were just dark and depressing looking.

One thing I like about Zato in Xrd over AC is that he doesn't flash constantly anymore, always thought that looked dumb.

[Phantom Angel]

Press and release -p- at the same rhythm of the other gatlings. Forgot the exact combo but basically its [k], , [d], press release p and keep all those presses around the same time. Your ultimate aim is to have the -p- right in between the 5s and 5d hits, but keeping the same rhythm should be about right for you to get it.

Oh, so I'm not supposed to negative edge the P? I think I got it to work once, but that was it lol.

[Marz]

Edit: sorry double post

[JyakotuKurayami]

So I have questions about this character. Now, everybody knows I am a HUGE Bridget fan. However, when I did play with Zato-1...I was kind of interested. I read somewhere that he's sort of like a puppet character like Carl, Ken, and Chaos. How true is this? Because if he plays similar to these characters, then I may actually have someone to play as in Xrd, since Bridget probably won't be coming back. T_T

[stickystaines]

Zato is the OG puppet master of anime.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2MqK_yowA

[JyakotuKurayami]

So now I have someone to play as in Xrd. Bridget, forgive me. T_T

[Braver]

How good is Deadman's Hand(little monster's new command throw)?

 

I never see it used in match videos.

[Ryd']

How good is Deadman's Hand(little monster's new command throw)?

 

I never see it used in match videos.

 

You can combo into Executor in the corner for a basic unblockable setup, but the throw can be really aggravating because of the way it depends on Eddie's spacing.  I don't know if you can get much better off it without meter; the starting height off is a bit difficult to work with.

[Rhythmic]

BAP04 inspired me to go to the lab and see just how much reason there is not to get hit by ch nobiru

 

Zato CH Nobiru conversion  | Takes roughly 70% Eddie bar, Zato can be about half screen away if he jumps forward into SG. Getting a CH like that with a remote puddle summon is rather likely.

 

Now this really feels like AC Eddie. I'll test this on the entire cast, I suspect most will need an RC extender to get stunned.

I really like this combo (less potato version/different ender/visible (unclean) inputs). I don't think I would go for the second SG in a real match (especially online), though. More consistent, uses significantly less Eddie meter in case you've already used some of it and you can just loop into another unblockable that will kill anyway if you don't stun as long as you have 50 tension... which you probably do.

 

cheers for that

[wiredgod]

Are there any good training mode drills people could share to get used to Eddie's negative edging along with Zato's normals?

[Rhythmic]

I thought Zato's challenge mode was actually really good for that. The combos aren't the most optimal but they teach you how to handle him really nicely. I had never played a negative edge character in my life before Xrd and I grinded all the muscle memory thanks to challenge mode. They don't expressly tell you "here is how to hit the buttons in order," but if you're at least familiar with the concept of negative edging, you'll figure out what you have to hit and when by doing the combos (and you can always look at the example with the inputs shown to see what you're doing wrong).

 

On that note, is Zato's difficulty blown way out of proportion or was he actually really hard to handle in #R/AC? I got a little mad the first day because my fingers were refusing to do what I wanted them to do, but all difficulty pretty much stopped after that. People talk about Eddie like he's some soul-crushingly hard character but it really felt like learning just any other character, except with a slight hurdle to get past day 1.