[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[Cashus]

Can anyone help me with challenge 33? I cant connect Dust attack after -p-. Also is this a staple part to learn?

[felirx]

Generally BnB would be substituting -k- for -p-.

In the corner,

-k- (5p)5k5s -k- 5[d] 6[p] -d- 2H 22S into fly j.S/H in to air combo or 6P jc air combo. This is the usual unblockable setup from -k- hitconfirm in the corner. You have to time your -d- release and your air j.S/H to make it properly unblockable.

Midscreen, for example

-k- (5p)5k5s -k- dash follow Mawaru, 2p 2d unsummon.

 

You can also do this with 2k2s instead, making the timing easier, but dash following midscreen harder or not possible depending on spacing.

 

The combo in the challenge does not setup unblockable, it instead combos in to drill.

 

In actual game, this would be a low mixup sort of thing because 5k is a low. You also have to time your 5k properly. Ideally you hit with it on or around the last hit of Mawaru to give Eddie time to recover.

You also have to hitconfirm either at s or -k- to see if you're hitting or not.

 One way you would use this in actual game, is you get the opponent to block Mawaru, while you're doing an empty jump in to 5k or 2k to setup a empty jump to low mixup.

[Synyster17]

Speaking of Zato Neutral wtf do you even do. all i see is a bunch of -s- and -p- with the shadow but there must b more i think....i hope

 

i really don't use the shadow in neutral that much cause 1. it gets fucking blown up and 2. I-no is a bitch

[Cashus]

Generally BnB would be substituting -k- for -p-.

In the corner,

-k- (5p)5k5s -k- 5[d] 6[p] -d- 2H 22S into fly j.S/H in to air combo or 6P jc air combo. This is the usual unblockable setup from -k- hitconfirm in the corner. You have to time your -d- release and your air j.S/H to make it properly unblockable.

Midscreen, for example

-k- (5p)5k5s -k- dash follow Mawaru, 2p 2d unsummon.

 

You can also do this with 2k2s instead, making the timing easier, but dash following midscreen harder or not possible depending on spacing.

 

The combo in the challenge does not setup unblockable, it instead combos in to drill.

 

In actual game, this would be a low mixup sort of thing because 5k is a low. You also have to time your 5k properly. Ideally you hit with it on or around the last hit of Mawaru to give Eddie time to recover.

You also have to hitconfirm either at s or -k- to see if you're hitting or not.

 One way you would use this in actual game, is you get the opponent to block Mawaru, while you're doing an empty jump in to 5k or 2k to setup a empty jump to low mixup.

thanks man. Ill try those. 

[wirestyle22]

Speaking of Zato Neutral wtf do you even do.

 

From what I've been studying from Ogawa:

 

99% of the time I see Ogawa either backdash or backwards IAD at the start of a round. Just noticed it, idk if that's a thing or he's just being respected. I also noticed that anytime he does a shadow special he behaves as if it will get hit every time he summons it, following up with things like c.S to counter-hit into damage. Everything seems to start with a blocked drill. I don't ever see him use Shadow Gallery just as an fyi--probably because its gimmicky.

 

Block Drill (Puddle) > 214H to -S- (+15 and covers more vertical space) or 214H to -K- (+26 if you're further away) depending on how far away you are from them > Pressure/Command Grab

Note: I also see Ogawa specifically get a knockdown and not always go into Drill. Sometimes he likes to 236P > Drill > -S- etc.

 

Anti Airs: When Eddie is out you can cover 6H with -S- to make it safe(?). Seems to be the case. Eddie has godlike anti-airs anyway.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Have been messing around with Deadman's hand. Simply put the move is bad. I suggest messing with it on your ow , but from my experience it's not worth using.

[greatfernman]

Have been messing around with Deadman's hand. Simply put the move is bad. I suggest messing with it on your ow , but from my experience it's not worth using.

FYI ogawa used it in a recent mikado and the commentator explained what ogawa had previously told him what dead mans hand can be useful for. But I didn't really listen closely, something about Eddie meter iirc. Just thought I'd bring it up so you can go see it if you haven't already, though I'm sure you have. I'll go give it another listen if I have time.

(Disclaimer: I have no opinion or knowledge on this whatsoever since I don't play zato nor have I played against him often.)

[Mr.Biscuits]

Marlinpie elaborated on it. Basically it's good for when you're low on shadow meter. The reward for landing it is not very good. I started messing with it because Ogawa used it several times.

A decent setup would be -P- invite hell (S or H depending on spacing) > Dead man's hand. Invite hell is good for setting it up because it lets you buffer the 63214D without getting standing dust.

[Dirty Magic]

Hey guys! We made a Zato skype chat exclusively for players who are planning to play Xrd as him.

 

We discuss about certain topics related to strategies, properties, matchups, questions etc. 

 

Let me know if you would be interested on joining the group. 

Heya, idk if the chat is still going but I would appreciate being added!

 

mumbles_and_incoherent_sounds is my skype.

[wirestyle22]

Marlinpie elaborated on it. Basically it's good for when you're low on shadow meter. The reward for landing it is not very good. I started messing with it because Ogawa used it several times.

A decent setup would be -P- invite hell (S or H depending on spacing) > Dead man's hand. Invite hell is good for setting it up because it lets you buffer the 63214D without getting standing dust.

 

The reward is just an air combo right? What else can you really get out of it? 

[Ryd']

Combo into Executor for a knockdown, and if Eddie has sufficient meter after the throw while close to the corner, it sets up an unblockable.  Crap for damage on its own though, and no knockdown without meter.

[wirestyle22]

Combo into Executor for a knockdown, and if Eddie has sufficient meter after the throw while close to the corner, it sets up an unblockable.  Crap for damage on its own though, and no knockdown without meter.

 

I probably won't practice that. I have so much to learn that something that specific doesn't really help me right now. Good to know though.

 

FYI: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24874468 <-- some of the best neutral game Zato I've seen

[Bossguy]

I've been playing Guilty Gear for about two weeks now, and I picked up Zato. I wanted to main him the first time I saw the character, and it's probably better if you start sooner or later, right? I've grinded out about fifty matches with him and I'm pathetic, haha. To be expected. Would you recommend that I spend an entire day in training mode practicing setups and familiarizing myself with controlling both characters? I can do the basic 5P, 5K, 5S, -k-, but I can't adapt a new string on the fly. Controlling the shadow still feels awkward. Plus I can't even do the standard fuzzy guard mixup. Should I dedicate a lot more time to training mode, or just play tons more matches?

[Ryd']

I would recommend playing around in training mode for however long it takes to get the hang of manipulating both at once; get used to holding down multiple buttons, moving Eddie while Zato's occupied, etc.  Playing matches won't do you much good if you're still struggling with Zato's basics; you don't really get to learn much if you're fighting the controls and an opponent.  He's not an easy character, so expect to put in a lot more work than you would with most; he's the type that you're probably going to lose a lot with before you start to win with any kind of regularity, but the payoff is huge if you stick with it.

[Bossguy]

Thank you for the tips. I can hold buttons down fine, it just gets sorta outta hand when I start a string. My fingers get overwhelmed, haha. I've been trying to work 22S into some pressure strings, and I'm really starting to like the priority of the -P- input. However, I just can't get that j.k, JC j.k, j.HS mixup down for the life of me. :/

[Pen_Ninja]

What're you struggling with when it comes to the fuzzy j.k mixup?

What's happening?

[Bossguy]

I hit the first j.k, and 70% of the time I jump cancel and the second j.k whiffs. Another occurance is that I just mess up the jump cancel and I fall to the ground. I don't really know what's happening in the first problem, because I'm canceling the jump cancel fairly quickly with the attack, but I know why the second one is happening. I'm just doing the first j.k to close to the ground.

Also, I'm having a real problem with people mashing in between strings. i just set the cpu to mash 6P and it blew up pretty much everything.

One last question, do you have a couple pressure strings that you have memorized for certain scenarios, or do you usually improvise all the way? I try improvising, but it feels like I'm just mashing buttons at this point.

[Pen_Ninja]

Make sure you're doing this on a standing opponent. The 2nd j.K will probably whiff on crouching.

You should be hitting the first j.K fairly low, how low you hit it determines how late you can delay the 2nd before it becomes too high. You'll work out the timing.

You can definitely hit too low and the game won't let you double jump. That's ptobably the other problem, you'll train yourself out of that pretty quick.

As for block strings, I feel that you should have optimal strings you want to do to give you the most advantageous situation/mixup for the least Eddie meter but you you also want to learn other ones to both keep your opponent on their toes and so that you feel more comfortable changing stuff up to react to your opponent and stop things like jump outs or back dashes.

[Bossguy]

Thank you. I'll try getting that down later. What are some of your preffered strings, and when do you use them? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.  

[president]

You're doing the second j.K too slow, the idea is to hit it during the standing blockstun while opponent just switches his input to a crouchblock without actually crouching. It's pretty bad since Zato can't go low this fast so there's no real reason to ever hit a j.k x2 flight mixup; it was more common back in AC where you just alternated timings anyway so you don't get all your stuff slashbacked. For xrd instead you should be doing j.k flight j.s or going straight from j.k to flight j.h to simulate timings where a low would actually be a threat.

[xXavierx]

You're doing the second j.K too slow, the idea is to hit it during the standing blockstun while opponent just switches his input to a crouchblock without actually crouching. It's pretty bad since Zato can't go low this fast so there's no real reason to ever hit a j.k x2 flight mixup; it was more common back in AC where you just alternated timings anyway so you don't get all your stuff slashbacked. For xrd instead you should be doing j.k flight j.s or going straight from j.k to flight j.h to simulate timings where a low would actually be a threat.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but j.k and j.s are both 7 frames so shouldn't the deciding factor between the two normals after flight should be hitbox / character specific stuff?

[Pen_Ninja]

J.S should hit a crouching opponent is the only difference really... J.K has 12 frames of block stun and 7 startup.

You can delay a few frames and dj.K should come out at a similar timing to landing and doing a 7 frame 2K

[president]

I was mostly getting at j.S letting you choose your own timing without having to worry about someone like Chipp just crouching under it for free.

[Dirty Magic]

So uhh, is there no skype group afterall or..?

[Pen_Ninja]

Sorry man, I'm not aware of any Skype group but I didn't want to answer because I could have easily been wrong.