[Xrd] Potemkin Gameplay Discussion

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Yeah it's just about learning to recognize the startup of his moves. And not forgetting that he has a move that hits the whole screen and is ALSO an overhead.

Sin's DP is kinda scary because despite it being kind of slow (9F) and not having a particularly great hitbox, it's totally safe on block. The best thing you can do, if you KNOW it's coming, is backdash or otherwise force it to wiff, because it's unbelievably bad if it doesn't hit at all. There are some option selects against this you can do to help. For oki setup, j.S 44 2P, input 44 early so it will come out only if j.S wiffs (hitstop will eat the input on block). Also if you have >25% <50% meter you can use the YRC OS since the DP has more than 6F startup, just do anything meaty -> RC input. Both OSs effectively "lose" to backdashing which is why you've still got to make good reads. Though thinking about it, Sin's backdash is extremely slow, you may even be able to punish him in certainly cases after a YRC OS.

Make sure you really press your advantage if Sin runs low on food. He can't eat safely against Potemkin at all unless he hits you (or spends 50%), so if he's spending all his food just trying to land a hit, he will have very poor options against you. Slidehead him if he tries to eat out of a blockstring or if he just runs away.

Sin's normal throw is the scariest thing he has IMO. 200 damage for 50% meter off a normal throw anywhere on the screen? Yikes.

[MasterXDrake]

I wish Pot's shield thing overdrive was removed. He needs Kanji's awakening super instead. Also buff Pot's yolo dive.

[Azzal]

You must IB the first low one for a Slidehead to be guaranteed to hit before a second low at fastest input. Otherwise you will trade as long as your timing is good enough. If you are getting CH out of slidehead you are not doing it early enough.

If Axl is just doing Low->Low over and over then you can just use Megafist to hit him clean, but it's risky because of the Mid version. You can also just use the Hammerfall Break method which is actually not even all that hard, at worst you will blow 25% and force Axl to blow 50%.

You can also safely use the 2P method mentioned before. You can even Option Select it to cover multiple options: do 2P -> 6P as fast as possible after blocking a low chain. If he didn't cancel to Mid you will hit him with 2P, if he did you will hit him with 6P. Doing High beats this (he'll recover in time to hit you), so keep that in mind. Just doing 2P is a very safe option though, doesn't even need an IB.

Axl's DP is not that good. It's completely punishable on even normal block. Just block it and punish, you can use f.S 2D, just 2D, or 5H, basically anything. You can even punish, on normal block, at full distance, with 6K, which gets you a hard knockdown. His DP also has a lot of startup, 9F, which means it's absurdly easy to safe jump or option select against.

 

 

 

Thanks a lot, i'll try this stuff!

Well playing GG since X2, and other fighting game, but was never a fan of options select, i think OS take away lots of mind game, it's just the easy way to avoid mind game, so i never learned them. But Pot is so shitty atm, I think i'll try them out.

What are Pot good OS? (knowing that I'm a total noob at OS)

[jak d ripr]

Found something cool today, searched and couldn't find it so here goes.

 

ICPM can be YRC'd on OTG hit. e.g. full screen Slide Head -> TK ICPM -> YRC. The timing is slightly after the second hit, when the opponent starts their wakeup animation. It's confirmable and you end up right on top of them with good frame advantage, for only 25% meter, so I think it's a really good full screen option.

 

Makes me wonder how many moves have these late YRC points.

 

But doesn't ICPMing after a slidehead get you in with frame advantage anyway? 

[Banoffee]

But doesn't ICPMing after a slidehead get you in with frame advantage anyway? 

 

Sadly no, the OTG hit forces the opponent to stand up immediately so they recover before you do.

[Dirty Magic]

Sin's DP is kinda scary because despite it being kind of slow (9F) and not having a particularly great hitbox, it's totally safe on block. 

 

It's actually unsafe on /hit/, but he can cancel it into specials so it's essentially safe.

 

Still, he has to drop some calories to make it work.

[Circuitous]

I wish Pot's shield thing overdrive was removed. He needs Kanji's awakening super instead. Also buff Pot's yolo dive.

 

You'd rather get rid of a great combo tool with massive stun for a 720? Didn't you see Henaki's post?

[Synyster17]

can someone explain the 6k loop to me. i know its like 6k hfb maybeeee? im kind of looking how to do it like do i charge after the jk or is someting else going on here?

[Circuitous]

6K > Hammerfall > Break.

 

Input 6K, immediately start charging back, then hit 6H late in hitstop and P immediately after. There's no real trick, just timing.

 

2S > 6K is easier because you can input 6K early and start charging at that point, giving you more time.

[jak d ripr]

Sadly no, the OTG hit forces the opponent to stand up immediately so they recover before you do.

 

Damn, that sucks. But good to know I guess. I always wondered why more people didn't ICPM after a full screen slidehead.

[wirestyle22]

Anyone here have the PS4 version of XRD? What arcade stick are you using if so? I just bought a Hori HRAP v4 w/ Hayabusa stick + Kuro buttons. I have a feeling I'm going to be replacing the buttons with Seimitsu buttons though.

[Dirty Magic]

Damn, that sucks. But good to know I guess. I always wondered why more people didn't ICPM after a full screen slidehead.

It still has it's uses, but that's why FAB always does double HFB to close the distance instead.

[Azzal]

Any tips for That shitty blazblue character named ramlethal ? I'm getting zoned or fucked up in the corner. :-S

[Circuitous]

Any tips That shitty blazblue character named ramlethal ? I'm getting zoned or fucked up in the corner. :-S

 

Learn the placed sword swipe timing and flick them if she's not approaching behind them. If she is, learn to block. Her strings are all negative except the overheads, so guess what she's gonna go for. When she doesn't, blow her up.

[MasterXDrake]

You'd rather get rid of a great combo tool with massive stun for a 720? Didn't you see Henaki's post?

I can't even perform the move. Same with Pot's command grab..

[Darlos9D]

I can't even perform the move. Same with Pot's command grab..

 

While, on the grander scale, I do tend to take issue with command inputs that tend to be daunting to inexperienced players... at the same time you kinda have to accept what you're given in any particular fighting game you pick up. Your three options are to learn, not play at any kind of an optimal level, or not play at all.

 

Sorry.

[wirestyle22]

I can't even perform the move. Same with Pot's command grab..

 

Why would you play Potemkin if you can't PB?

[wirestyle22]

So, this is my basic game plan.

 

Movement Options (Viable):

Slide Head: Basically 1/2 screen to full screen punishes or out of a block string when your opponent isn't expecting it (gimmicky and seems to suck against Faust). Gets you in for free.

Hammerfall: Can be a risky way in. Can be used in block strings with 2P to stagger pressure and maintain momentum. 

Walk: Grappler intimidation factor. Good when your opponent is trying to get away--you can walk them right into the corner. Extremely low risk provided you have functioning synapses and can block.

Jump/Double-Jump: Typically used after knock downs for some-what safe pressure. Different angle of approach. etc. 

 

Once I get in:

 

Mixup:

 

5P/2P > Potemkin Buster

Blockstrings > Hammerfall Break > Pressure/PB/Heat Knuckle (anti-jump) etc.

 

This is like, omega basic. The only real thing I do is stagger 2P using HFB which makes it +frames into whatever. I'm practicing 6P > HFB loop. Outside of me maximizing my damage through combo optimization, what am I supposed to be doing? I'm kind of playing defensive footsies right now and counter play. If I play against a character that has overwhelming pressure, like eddie, I'm pretty much locked into blocking. I can IB but I have to know exactly what to IB.

 

Another question I have is what makes something good burst bait? I assume it should be at least +0 (so you can block) and lead to good damage, making them want to burst it. I can't really tell when someone is trying to bait me into bursting. 

[Circuitous]

I can't even perform the move. Same with Pot's command grab..

 

Then I would advise working on that. No one can do it at first, everyone had to practice it.

 

Also for the record, re: something wirestyle22 said above: 2P Hammerfall Break is actually negative. You're using it for the momentum, not the frames.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

This is like, omega basic. The only real thing I do is stagger 2P using HFB which makes it +frames into whatever. I'm practicing 6P > HFB loop. Outside of me maximizing my damage through combo optimization, what am I supposed to be doing? I'm kind of playing defensive footsies right now and counter play. If I play against a character that has overwhelming pressure, like eddie, I'm pretty much locked into blocking. I can IB but I have to know exactly what to IB.

 

Another question I have is what makes something good burst bait? I assume it should be at least +0 (so you can block) and lead to good damage, making them want to burst it. I can't really tell when someone is trying to bait me into bursting.

2P HFB is not +frames on block, it's negative because it's a low level move. It's still okay though!

Burst bait potential has nothing to do with advantage/disadvantage, but instead on Total Time. You want to use moves with extremely short total duration, unfortunately your options are quite bad in this game since c.S seems to no longer be fast enough for this purpose.

Your best bet is to learn how to do YRC option select burst baits, they aren't fool proof and are quite situational but are quite strong in those situations where you can use it.

When that isn't an option, make good reads! Use moves that are Jump Cancelable, because then if you read a burst correctly you can simply jump, block, punish.

Zato is Zato, you really just have to be insanely good at blocking, and insanely good at avoiding being put into block situations. IBing won't help you much if he's doing proper solid pressure, but at least you can build some super meter while doing it. A few tips to remember:

- Drills stop being active if Zato blocks or is hit. Megafist or Hammerfall when you read a drill is a possible option, be ready to cancel with meter though. Don't try to flick drills.

- At max distance, Far drill will not hit you if you slidehead. Keep that in mind, if you read a drill at max range you can get a free knockdown.

- You can always beat Zato's grab with a Buster. It's not a very safe option, but it is your strongest response. Jump Back + FD is another one. Don't try to attack or Megafist or anything like that, you will just eat Nobiru if you try to.

- Hitting little Eddie obviously does not count as putting Zato into guard/hitstun, so you can YRC a move after hitting it. You can also cancel into specials. Hitting little Eddie with 2P, canceling into Hammerfall, Megafist, or YRC, may be options in certain circumstances. If Zato is not protecting little Eddie correctly, you can usually 2P it after blocking one of it's moves. But any good Zato will not let you do that.

- Don't fuck with him if he goes into the ground with Break the Law. The move is broken, if you try to do anything, like guess when he will come out, you just get thrown. Just try to stay close but not within throw range.

- If you hit him, it's your time. Get a knockdown, safe oki into big mixup into another knockdown. Don't let him go no matter what, spend your bar to stay in if you have to.

- Zato's hitbox is fucked up so you need unique combos for him. He's ... kind of super floaty but also tall? I dunno. Fortunately he has no life bar and he dizzies incredibly easily. Go for dizzy combos on him, kill him in 2 hits.

Re:Mixups, don't just 2P -> PB or HFB -> PB, that's easy to beat. Don't use Heat to read jumps if you already have them in blockstun, they can just backdash and punish you! Instead, use solid blockstrings into low normals! That will catch DPs, jumps, backdashes. So for example, do 2P 2K, or 2P 5K if you are closer. This has actually become a terrifying option for Pote in this game, because you get full 6K loops off low normals near the corner now, which lead to hard knockdown.

You can use the dumb 2P 5P wiff PB mixup every now and then too. It's actually quite hard to see, because it's 16F total time on 5P so they only have a total of 18F to react. Problem with it is that it's not really much different in usage than any other mixup off 2P, they are just reacting to leaving guardstun and not to what you are actually doing.

I've mentioned other tactics for baiting backdashes previously including 2P 5H, raw 6H, YRC OS wiff normals, etc. Keep those in mind since players love to backdash Pote so much, and the first time you hit them with a raw 2P bait 5H RRC 6H HFB 2S 6K full loop, they will suddenly get terrified because their favorite escape option just made them eat a 250 damage combo.

[wirestyle22]

2P HFB is not +frames on block, it's negative because it's a low level move. It's still okay though!

Burst bait potential has nothing to do with advantage/disadvantage, but instead on Total Time. You want to use moves with extremely short total duration, unfortunately your options are quite bad in this game since c.S seems to no longer be fast enough for this purpose.

Your best bet is to learn how to do YRC option select burst baits, they aren't fool proof and are quite situational but are quite strong in those situations where you can use it.

When that isn't an option, make good reads! Use moves that are Jump Cancelable, because then if you read a burst correctly you can simply jump, block, punish.

Zato is Zato, you really just have to be insanely good at blocking, and insanely good at avoiding being put into block situations. IBing won't help you much if he's doing proper solid pressure, but at least you can build some super meter while doing it. A few tips to remember:

- Drills stop being active if Zato blocks or is hit. Megafist or Hammerfall when you read a drill is a possible option, be ready to cancel with meter though. Don't try to flick drills.

- At max distance, Far drill will not hit you if you slidehead. Keep that in mind, if you read a drill at max range you can get a free knockdown.

- You can always beat Zato's grab with a Buster. It's not a very safe option, but it is your strongest response. Jump Back + FD is another one. Don't try to attack or Megafist or anything like that, you will just eat Nobiru if you try to.

- Hitting little Eddie obviously does not count as putting Zato into guard/hitstun, so you can YRC a move after hitting it. You can also cancel into specials. Hitting little Eddie with 2P, canceling into Hammerfall, Megafist, or YRC, may be options in certain circumstances. If Zato is not protecting little Eddie correctly, you can usually 2P it after blocking one of it's moves. But any good Zato will not let you do that.

- Don't fuck with him if he goes into the ground with Break the Law. The move is broken, if you try to do anything, like guess when he will come out, you just get thrown. Just try to stay close but not within throw range.

- If you hit him, it's your time. Get a knockdown, safe oki into big mixup into another knockdown. Don't let him go no matter what, spend your bar to stay in if you have to.

- Zato's hitbox is fucked up so you need unique combos for him. He's ... kind of super floaty but also tall? I dunno. Fortunately he has no life bar and he dizzies incredibly easily. Go for dizzy combos on him, kill him in 2 hits.

Re:Mixups, don't just 2P -> PB or HFB -> PB, that's easy to beat. Don't use Heat to read jumps if you already have them in blockstun, they can just backdash and punish you! Instead, use solid blockstrings into low normals! That will catch DPs, jumps, backdashes. So for example, do 2P 2K, or 2P 5K if you are closer. This has actually become a terrifying option for Pote in this game, because you get full 6K loops off low normals near the corner now, which lead to hard knockdown.

You can use the dumb 2P 5P wiff PB mixup every now and then too. It's actually quite hard to see, because it's 16F total time on 5P so they only have a total of 18F to react. Problem with it is that it's not really much different in usage than any other mixup off 2P, they are just reacting to leaving guardstun and not to what you are actually doing.

I've mentioned other tactics for baiting backdashes previously including 2P 5H, raw 6H, YRC OS wiff normals, etc. Keep those in mind since players love to backdash Pote so much, and the first time you hit them with a raw 2P bait 5H RRC 6H HFB 2S 6K full loop, they will suddenly get terrified because their favorite escape option just made them eat a 250 damage combo.

 

Thanks for all of the info. 

 

I thought that since 2P is +0 and I'm cancelling it into HFB I could make it plus, but I see on the wiki that HFB's startup is at minimum 18 frames. I completely forgot about attack levels, but even so there is no way any version of P would cover 18 frames of startup.

 

I see FAB trade with Ogawa a lot using 2P to kill Eddie. I need to work on my loops and hit confirming into damage.

[Darlos9D]

Yeah I think punishing backdashes is one of the biggest things I need to learn. That and just some kind of actual decent plans for my pressure.

 

What's a good backdash punish if you don't have meter to spend?

[Flick]

Yeah I think punishing backdashes is one of the biggest things I need to learn. That and just some kind of actual decent plans for my pressure.

 

What's a good backdash punish if you don't have meter to spend?

I think f.S is the most reliable to punish backdash, but this ain't AC anymore so you don't get anything big from it.

In some case, you can OS 2K>f.S and confirm into Heat, but that's character, spacing specific. Not to mention the confirm is not easy

[jak d ripr]

So cancelling a f.HS into hammerfall uses the same technique as cancelling a f.k right? Because I was messing around with it in training mode and it just never came out(I was getting the f.k into hammerfall break cancels though, so that's something) and figured I'd just check to make sure it was just my timing and I wasn't missing something important.

[Owner]

You need to cancel 6HS into Hammerfall pretty early after it hits

 

6K on the other hand can be canceled into Hammerfall pretty late (otherwise you wouldn't get enough charge time)