[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Final Ultima]

In the corner it wouldn't really matter, and at a distance you could always omit the second hit (especially seeing as the first hit of 623D seems to have a larger hitbox in Chrono Phantasma, it seems to hit more often at least). It'd probably be preferable, even.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Final Ultima

[Fluck]

Oh yeah, you're right. 6B 5D(1) 623D could very well be viable and optimal then.

[MashThat5A]

If you watch videos, that's what everyone has been confirming into off of overhead. They do 6B>5D(2)>HF midscreen. So little damage.

[WolfCrimson]

For some reason I feel like they're not doing the optimal thing. I have a feeling 6B > 6A > HF > 5A/5B/2A >etc would work.

Not giving up hope for 6B yet.

DAMMIT I WANT THE GAME SO BAD.

Edited December 6, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[stickystaines]

Gatling into 5D is probably safer now than 6A

[Tong]

maybe you're meant to spend Heat with 6B 2D (RC) 6C 6D j.214D ...

[WolfCrimson]

maybe you're meant to spend Heat with 6B 2D (RC) 6C 6D j.214D ...

So... GH is unsafe (and doesn't do much damage anyway), and our other viable overhead requires heat to do damage? No. There must be another way.

[Tong]

Maybe its combo potential is high. Remember the new prorate system is now time-based on starters.

[Fluck]

You can no longer jump cancel 6A on block so if you do 6B 6A and the opponent blocks you get fucking bodied unless you cancel into Inferno Divider. 5A will beat everything else you do.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Or you could just pretend you're playing Sol and not worry about high/low mixups until you knock someone down. Of course, Ragna has no command grab, but his neutral is about 100x better than Sol's.

[MashThat5A]

I think we will see optimal stuff when they realize HF is CS2 Dead Spike.

[Godlike Assault]

Still no video with his overdrive?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Feels like nobody really understands how to use it properly yet. I've only seen one combo use it so far, every other time it's been used in some desperation situation and ended up getting the Ragna player killed.

[KayEff]

it doesn't help that ragna's OD is bad compared to the others

[WolfCrimson]

^ How so?

It's Blood Kain without the health loss. And Blood Kain is actually a strong powerup, both his damage and lifegain increases, and his D moves get improved hitboxes (and his supers also become better). Compared to others' ODs, how is it weaker?

Edited December 7, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

It's not as versatile as some of the other ODs (can only really be used either in a combo or as a reversal), and it's more difficult to use in combos than other ODs because Ragna doesn't have as many moves that create a stun state where he doesn't have to cancel into OD (cancelling into OD shortens the time). Compare that to Jin or Hakumen or Makoto, who all have ways to combo into a raw OD, and consequently are the characters you see the most OD combos for so far. In Hakumen's case, his OD is also versatile in that he can just use it outside of combos to give himself a meter boost.

[WolfCrimson]

I think it's still too early to be writing off Ragna's OD as bad. It's been 2+ weeks since the game released. From the vids we're watching, the Ragna players are still going for sub-optimal combos - actually, all players are.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I didn't say it was bad. I don't even think it's bad compared to most ODs, since most characters either don't use OD or use it sparingly. There are maybe 4 characters who I see use it regularly, which would be the three I mentioned above and Tsubaki. In which case I'd say it's more that those characters' ODs are significantly better than most, rather than Ragna's being worst than most.

The combos players use concern me though. In most cases, I'd say his damage looks, well, weak. Like CT levels for his average damage, which isn't good when I see other characters usually dealing more.

[Final Ultima]

Unburstable Blood Kain with no life loss sounds really appealing at first until you read the fine print... you know, stuff like "lasts for a generally much shorter duration, damage nerfs for most Blood Kain Ds and P2 nerfs for several of them". I wouldn't be surprised if there's some element to it that players are overlooking for now, but as of now I think that Ragna's Over Drive is steered more towards critical health comebacks for that precious lifesteal, if anything. It's not a "do it whenever" Over Drive like a lot of the better ones are. I think they the developers realised that a mode that lasts longer at lower life would specifically benefit Ragna and went out of their way to make sure it wasn't busted like some of the others. As a result, it's situational again... like it's always been, really.

Also, as TITANIUM BEAST!! said, it's not as easy to bust out mid-combo and still get full time out of it. I'm waiting on some 6C (JCC), A+B+C+D stuff, personally.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Final Ultima

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

That's the thing, they almost always seem to go out of their way with things that are "potentially" too good. End result is a weaker end product.

[MashThat5A]

*Looks at Arakune for the last 4 games* Uhh...

Yeah, the only combos I can think of where you would get to use raw over drive practically are 6C>IAD BK, 2D RC BK, and maaaaybe 5C> jc BK/3c jc BK

Also, I think his damage output will be fine. His corner average damage is about the same as CS2/EX, and his midscreen stuff is really unoptimized at this point.

Edited December 7, 2012 by MashThat5A

[BlackYakuzu94]

Give it a few weeks, I'm pretty sure somebody will make use out of Ragna's OD/

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

*Looks at Arakune for the last 4 games* Uhh...

Yeah, but he's like the Eddie of the game. Eddie was bad in what, one iteration? Even then, he wasn't bad.

[Tong]

No character in GG is that bad.

But yeah, Ragna might require more effort this time to dish out great damage.

Also, regarding my question about normal YnK.. yeeeaaaaah it *kinda* sucks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cTtUUXvXZb8#t=74s

Carnage Scissors would certainly have killed her.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Tong

[WolfCrimson]

Carnage scissors = more damage

YnK = more life gain