[UNIEL] Vatista

[SoWL]

I think I got it. I still drop it in 3 cases out of 4, but at least I recognize my mistakes to work on them (I basically input [6]4B or [2]8B too early and don't hold 9 early enough during the flash kick combo).

 

I simply use the A+D shortcut instead of the A button whenever I hold B or C. Since B and C buttons are close enough, I can easily piano them with a single thumb (so for the 2[C] 2]B[ part, I put the middle part of the thumb down, then raise the tip). Maybe it's just because my fingers are long enough. I was afraid that A+D would cause some accidental D actions, but you won't perform a throw as long as you're in midair or crouching, and if you perform a special, it will take priority over a throw or Shield. You're safe from any accidental Assaults, as well, since you're holding down 9 by then, and Assault requires a separate directional input. The only thing you should be careful about is CS (especially in the j.A [8]2A part of the combo), so try not to mash the button too hard.

[Master Chibi]

God you can do her combo on pad and I still can't do it on stick.

I need some serious help. I'm stagnating because I love playing her as Guile but my damage output is garbage because I can't do her 'normal' bnb involving two bombs.

 

Someone throw in a j.C during the first delay j.b delay dive kick and see how much less damage it does for me please vs the normal one.

 

Or give me some tips, I am legit struggling.

[choysauce]

God you can do her combo on pad and I still can't do it on stick.

I need some serious help. I'm stagnating because I love playing her as Guile but my damage output is garbage because I can't do her 'normal' bnb involving two bombs.

 

Someone throw in a j.C during the first delay j.b delay dive kick and see how much less damage it does for me please vs the normal one.

 

Or give me some tips, I am legit struggling.

What parts of the combos are you struggling with?

 

some tips I can spare are

-plan ahead which buttons and charges you want to use (have it set from what start you're using) (ESPECIALLY for which buttons to hold)

 

-for [8]2A or B using the standing normals like 5B or 5C and holding 9 during the start up of these and you should have enough charge to get it in one jump

 

-try to release the buttons for fragmentums after you confirm the normals hit (e.g. 2C > release 2]B[ or 5B > release 5]A[) or learn the timing for the earliest cancel after you get those down (it's pretty common to want to release it too early and not get any special cancel)

 

-wait more than it's a bit comfortable for you, for the charges. her charge times feel longer than most charge characters in most games (Just trust that the combo will still work if you delay the j.B)

so j.B > [8]2A raw in a combo, you delay the j.B and the drill pretty significantly for it to work. (this is also combined with the earlier comment of charging as soon as you hit a standing normal, 5B or 5C)

 

-j.B > j.C > [8]2A hit freeze helps ALOT with increasing your charge time. this sequence makes the combos a bit easier, but tends to lead to less damage (depends on what the whole combo is though, sometimes j.B > j.C actually adds damage)

 

hope that helps

[choysauce]

Is there such a thing as a High Counter only Combo? As in the combo only works if you get a High Counter.

 

I'm still not certain who's giving me the right info about how counters work in this game. I read that only the first hit gives you extra hitstun, others say the whole combo gives you extra hitstun.

 

Does anyone here have any High counter only combos?

[Tari]

Is there such a thing as a High Counter only Combo? As in the combo only works if you get a High Counter.

 

I'm still not certain who's giving me the right info about how counters work in this game. I read that only the first hit gives you extra hitstun, others say the whole combo gives you extra hitstun.

 

Does anyone here have any High counter only combos?

 

You get extra hitstun for the entire duration of the combo, but it's a very small amount, and the amount you get depends on your starter. The amount of extra hitstun doesn't appear to change if you get a high counter or a normal counter. High counter and counter only seem to differ in regards to how much additional untech time airborne opponents suffer from on the initial counterhit.

 

I haven't seen more than 3 frames or so of additional hitstun from counters, yet, but it does carry through the entire combo, and it does decay as proration ramps up over the course of a combo.

[Errol]

You get extra hitstun for the entire duration of the combo, but it's a very small amount, and the amount you get depends on your starter. The amount of extra hitstun doesn't appear to change if you get a high counter or a normal counter. High counter and counter only seem to differ in regards to how much additional untech time airborne opponents suffer from on the initial counterhit.

 

I haven't seen more than 3 frames or so of additional hitstun from counters, yet, but it does carry through the entire combo, and it does decay as proration ramps up over the course of a combo.

 

are you sure it's additional hitstun and not reduced proration or something? additional hitstun would potentially make impossible things possible

[Tari]

are you sure it's additional hitstun and not reduced proration or something? additional hitstun would potentially make impossible things possible

 

Sorry, yeah, it's likely reduced starting untech proration. I should probably re-write my notes so I have that more clearly stated. The overall effect is that you have more hitstun throughout the combo (and on the first move of the combo, due to added hitstun on counterhits), and that it decays over the course of a combo. I'm unclear as to how the game decides how much bonus untech proration you start with, though I'm assuming it's a flat amount. It's difficult to reliably say that or check it without actually knowing for certain how the game calculates proration and untech in the first place (the folks with debug mode might be able to answer those questions). Counter and high counter definitely appear to have the same untech benefits, though.

[choysauce]

Semi recent tournament from A-Cho features some really interesting combo options. This blue vatista's stein pressure is amazing too

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roQwFAy9QCE

[Keech]

Semi recent tournament from A-Cho features some really interesting combo options. This blue vatista's stein pressure is amazing too

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roQwFAy9QCE

j.c land j.c j.a+b j.c pretty smart too!

[Keech]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24654443

[Lolimaiko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2UHpQFjQOA&feature=youtu.be

 

I don't like posting, but this is getting frustrating.  I'm working on maximizing damage off of random crystal hits in the corner, and this is the best I can currently come up with.  (EX) Flashkick enders don't leave much time to set up crystal oki, and other alternatives deal less damage or put you in a less than ideal position. 

 

Hitting the 2C while they fall leaves you ample space and time to get the crystal pressure going without fearing for non-meter reversals; however the timing seems arbitrary.  Other than mashing as soon as possible to get the 2C out, does anyone have any tips for making this more consistent?

[choysauce]

Nice post Mike!

Yeah I definitely like the instances where 2C works in juggles. So much damage potential and way more positive setups from them.

[Lolimaiko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWIfoScxQAw&feature=youtu.be

 

Well, I managed to figure out the problem, and almost instantaneously my success rate jumped up to 80%.  Embarrassingly enough, the answer to this (as well as every problem in this world) was done in three words: GOTTA. GO. FAST.

 

In short, if the opponent gains any excess elevation during any part of the juggle, then they'll be able to tech before they hit the ground. 

 

For the midscreen combo, you have to cancel the 2B>B BEAM immediately after the first or second hit and release your second crystal as soon as possible.  This leaves you time to dash up, sweep and set up crystal oki.  If done correctly near the corner, you could possibly set up a 4-way mix-up using the crystal explosion to nudge your opponent in either direction.

 

For the corner combo, just make sure you set up Satelles Triangulum as soon as possible during the third crystal explosion, and your opponent won't be able to tech until he hits the ground.  The timing for the sweep is weird because the recovery time is long, but all you have to do is mash 2C on your first possible frame and it will hit a majority of the time. 

[Lolimaiko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycC0H4y89TY&feature=youtu.be

 

Trying to figure out uses for Dash B WHEN THERE'S NO NEED FOR THAT ANYMORE!

[pianomaster1988]

this. How i can pull this off

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24841782

[Keech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr9v5Asbndg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0NkueQ_aU

[Master Chibi]

Eight  months later I still can't do this bitch's 'proper' BnB.

So I'm not going to. Ah well.

[SyncNatsyu]

Hiya, I have a few questions on some of her combos/moves.  I've been practicing this combo: stuff>2c>5c>J>JC>ADive>2[C]>]B[>stuff; and I can do most of it, however I'm having trouble making the 2C in ADive>2C connect consistently.  Any tips or queues I can use to help with the timing?

 

Second, is the 5C>delayJ>delay ADive routes.  I get that most of the [7,8,or 9] charge comes from holding up during the 5C startup but is the delay J timing strict in that its literally a few frames before they can tech?  or am I waiting too long?  Same goes for following up with the ADive(might help if I knew the exact frame charge count).

 

I have other questions but I'll try to solve those over time.  Granted its only been a few days since the NA release but still...

[Ryd']

Ease of 2C after [8]2A depends on how much hitstun decay you've built up.  Doing 2C 5C jB [8]2A 2C etc. gives you a lot more leeway than, say, doing 2A 2A 2B 2C 5C as your starter.  The air sequence that you use also changes it up, but that part is spacing dependent; 2C 5C jB [8]2A is fine for point-blank, but if you have some distance between you, then you might need to do jA jB [8]2A or even something like jB jC land~rejump jA [8]2A.  Also worth noting that the follow up you get after [8]2A 2C can vary depending on your combo routes as well.  Note that if you're unsure of your ability to pick up with 2C, it's better to cut your losses and release a crystal instead.  Also consider sticking with easier combo routes until you're consistent enough in training; Vatista's not an easy one to pick up, and it's better to do less damaging combos that are easy to finish than dropping every other combo because you're not able to optimize her stuff yet.

 

5C jB [8]2A is fairly lenient in the amount of time you have between inputs before the opponent can tech.  What's going to screw you up at first is either failing to start charging ASAP or trying to cancel into the dive too early.  I wouldn't recommend getting too hung up on that particular combo route early on due to spacing requirements.  It's a good one to know, but you'll definitely want to pick up the alternatives.

 

Ground moves have a 53f charge time.  Dives are 43f.  Crystals are 61f.

[Lelouch84]

Combo #1 for Vatista is 5a>5b>2c>5c>j.b>j.c>[8]2a>2b>2c>[2]8b
I think it's easier to do 2b after [8]2a than it is to do 2c. Try looking at the Mizumi wiki for Vatista. It's got a lot of good info about her and all the characters in this game.

[SyncNatsyu]

I see thanks a bunch for the help.  I can do delay j.B>ADive now but I don't have much use for it yet till I learn her other routes.  Currently I'm working on advancing my mix-up and blockstring stuff.(reverse beating 5/2A sometimes fails for me, might need a new controller been using this one for years ><)I also need to use crystals more....

 

Out of curiosity, I've searched through the Vatista MU thread abit, but whats the take on which MUs are better for our zoning vs keeping close range pressure?  I keep second guessing myself every now and again thinking: "maybe I should go in.....nvm"

[Lelouch84]

The way I believe Vatista should be played is that you should make the opponent come to you. I don't generally approach my opponents. I make them play my game. If I can't (if I'm fighting a Hilda, and sometimes Nanase is trouble but Hilda especially), I will switch to Merkava. Merkava is my sub because he can turn bad matchups in my favor. With Vatista's fragments, you need a stick. Some people think you can play Vatista on pad if you really try but I dispute that it's possible. I need to get my stick before I can do many useful combos.

[TheArm05]

So there aren't many matchups where you have to play the aggressor. Hilda/Yuzu and to some extent Carmine being the notable exceptions.

 

Against most characters it is fine to get some space and see how they deal with fireballs and steins. If they are sitting and just building grd you can start advancing slowly behind fireballs and placing steins as you move forward.

If they are approaching aggressively jump back fireball and just holding downback waiting to reaction flashkick are your best friends.

 

Once you tag someone with a stein or flashkick its a good idea to approach and apply pressure. Most characters cannot deal with meaty stein explosion aside from just blocking so ending your combos in bomb setups is strong.  Steins are the key to pressuring as Vat. Frametrapping with stein explosion is your best friend and the best way to get people to respect your pressure as they take 3k for any bomb hit.

 

For the Hilda/Yuzu matchups you pretty much have to go in as both of those characters destroy you in neutral. Dash block a lot and push them to the corner. Try to get a read on a low/mid to assault over or dash C if they are doing jump back specials.  I can go into more detail if you want but this is my basic approach to matchups.

[SoWL]

Of course it's possible to play Vatista on pad: you only have three attack buttons. Put two of them on your shoulder pads, and you're good to go. Hell, I can do her fragment combos without changing my button layout thanks to the shortcuts (I've described it earlier in the thread).

[SyncNatsyu]

Ahh I see thankies.  I play nu/lambchops in bb so whenever I play a new zoning char(or failing that, someone with enough projectiles) I default to my mind set on "don't let them ever touch me." while I learn more 'bout how the char plays.

 

I have to disagree too that Vatista can only be played on stick.  I use pad(by which I mean I don't ever touch the actual D-pad outside 22 inputs) with my buttons on A=x, B=[], C=r1