[UNIEL] Nanase

[Blackout2021]

What's the exact combo you're doing?

I'm using 5C 2C as a starter then going in to 236B.

[Harukakuma]

I'm using 5C 2C as a starter then going in to 236B.

 

Are you sure about the above combo? I'm trying to do it but the j.C>j.2C at the end doesn't combo.

[Loli Bacon]

5C > 236B~C leads to j.C j.2C ender. If you use 2C, you can't use the j.C at the end anymore as it will prorate to a B starter.

[Blackout2021]

Are you sure about the above combo? I'm trying to do it but the j.C>j.2C at the end doesn't combo.

 

 

After the 3C I jump cancel right into j.2C.

[Daedron]

Apparently this character has good mixup, I think she does not. Who's in the right here, kind of a heated discussion I can't seem to win...?

 

I think she doesn't because she doesn't have fast lows and her specials only have high followups. Float double overhead is not that good because she can't fast-fall and do a low and it also leaves her wide open if block. Her dash B and dash C have varying speeds so you can just block low>high in rythm and block it every single time, not to mention you leave a huge mashable gap because it's a dash move

 

What's the general verdict?

[Miracleknight]

Well you don't need a fast fall to do a high low mixup. be in the air, B, B+C, B or B, Land 2B or Land throw, or empty jump throw. Just basic mixups. She doesn't particularly have her own strong unique mixups, just fundamental  mixups. She'd be really strong if this game had crossups but alas that is not this game.

[Harukakuma]

 

After the 3C I jump cancel right into j.2C.

 

I don't think you can do the ender when you JC into j.2C. I don't think theres enough time for that.

 

 

 

I semi-agree with you Daedron, I feel like her mix-up feel is sub-par compared to the rest of the mixup characters. But I don't think its that bad, with the dash followups, if you know they mash during the gap I believe the A version will catch them and put them in crumple (I don't have the console right now to make sure its 100% true but from my experience with online matches it catches people). I use dash B and C with fireball covering me and its worked quite well. Combined with grab it makes the mixup a bit harder for them to react to.

I don't use float double overhead so I can't comment on it much, but from mirror matches it sometimes catch me because I'm bad.

 

I didn't know that there isn't crossups in the game, is that really true? That means my j.BB thing isn't actually legit :-(

 

 

Also two things I noticed

 

If you grab and theres a fireball flying the fireball hits when the opponent is being grabbed. I don't know if that universal but it gives you a bit more damage off your grab.

 

A fireball does more damage than B fireball when B fireball travels on the ground. But when the B fireball first come out while going down it does the same damage as the A fireball.

[Ice Cube]

cross up are still useful in that it messes up reversal input for most characters except Vatista

[Loli Bacon]

Apparently this character has good mixup, I think she does not. Who's in the right here, kind of a heated discussion I can't seem to win...?

 

I think she doesn't because she doesn't have fast lows and her specials only have high followups. Float double overhead is not that good because she can't fast-fall and do a low and it also leaves her wide open if block. Her dash B and dash C have varying speeds so you can just block low>high in rythm and block it every single time, not to mention you leave a huge mashable gap because it's a dash move

 

What's the general verdict?

 

Her d.B and d.C can be mashed out of, but then you just condition your opponent to not be mashing which is easy enough given the damage you can pump out. Do it on oki with a fireball. d.C is safe on block, d.B is not by itself. You can CS either of them to see if it hit/if you can continue to pressure. If you want to make them safe, just B+C them and you're back to neutral which is generally a winning situation with this character. Float double overhead in and of itself isn't terribly scary but you can do things like j.B float j.BB, j.B float j.[C] j.236A (+ on block), j.B float j.[C] j.2C, j.B land 2B, j.B float j.BB land (6D j.2C)/2B, j.B float j.BB land into whatever. You can even do empty jump > throw, Empty jump > 2B, or empty jump > float > j.BB. She has so many mixup options.

It's vulnerable to DPs and shielding it, but that's when you mixup doing the float, landing, or doing j.[C] j.236A and then other stuff. All things considered, she has more mixup than Seth, Eltnum, Gordeau, Akatsuki, Merkava, Linne, Carmine, Hilda, Vatista, Chaos and Brohugs. I can't comment on the other characters since I don't know as much about them. That's most of the cast. She's V.Akiha-esque in her mixup.

 

On a different note: Hilda is a god awful matchup.

[NecroTheReaper]

I'd say her mixup is average, which I find perfectly fine since we have good damage and fireballs (that aren't very fiery). I think that her specials arent meant for pressure/mixup without CS though since almost all of them are punishable on block. Only one I see that's not strictly punishable is a blockes 236A/B into 6C since your fairly far away. With CS there's a lot of mind games though, cuz you can CS 214x and go for either a high, low, or throw thats safe regardless of which one you choose. Plus its got decent range so if people try to mash A on its startup, they could get hit, amd.if they get hit while you have CS, thats damage.

I'd say her mixup is very reliant on having CS a lot, since she has a lot of jump install moves and float just makes it even more tricky.

[Daedron]

It's vulnerable to DPs and shielding it, but that's when you mixup doing the float, landing, or doing j.[C] j.236A and then other stuff.

 

The thing is if the j.B is shielded with a green shield (forgot the term) it will automatically shield the next hit but there is absolutely no risk for me. I can just wait for you to do j.B, then press shield and if you go into float at that point I auto shield your followup and it stops you in your tracks, if you try to land or float away, delay or j.236A you get DP'ed or mashed on for free. You can't actually bait me into doing shield because I am not doing it outside of blockstun so there's no mixup there.

 

You're basically stuck doing universal mixup options that every single character in the cast can do.

 

Yes you can just do j.B > land and continue but then there's no actual mixup. Trying to mixup using float is SUPER risky and probably just not worth it.

Still, it's day 3, maybe we'll find something using float that's safe enough to do. But right now it seems it's mostly character inexperience that allows Nanase to open people up with her specific tools.

 

 

 

Only one I see that's not strictly punishable is a blockes 236A/B into 6C since your fairly far away

 

It is by anyone with a decently fast mid-range poke. Seems safe against some like Akatsuki, Seth and Chaos though.

[Ice Cube]

midscreen 5B 2B 2C 5C j.8C j.[C] j.BB j.2C 3C B+C j.B j.C j.2C 2C 214A = 2921
must be pretty close to work

[Crescens]

Has anyone got good confirms off of Oki j236B ?

[Ice Cube]

Nanase throw gimmicks:

In corner:
Throw > whiff throw > whiff throw > throw
Throw > whiff 2A 5A 2A > throw (mix the order up)

Throw > crouch 4 times > throw
Mix any of these with a meaty 5A/2A (or better yet, meaty 5A > tick throw). Or just block reversal.

 

Both corner and midscreen:
Throw > whiff 66B > throw (mix with 66C of course)

Throw > assault whiff j.A (or any jump attack) > whiff 2A > throw (delay 2A to meaty for mix up)

Midscreen only (this is legit, no gimmick)
Throw > forward B+C > land cross up 2A
or
Throw > forward B+C > glide back > fake cross up j.B
even better
Throw > forward B+C > land (on the other side) > back throw.
even even better
Throw > forward B+C > glide back > j.A > land throw

Keep them throws coming.

[Mikros]

Apparently this character has good mixup, I think she does not. Who's in the right here, kind of a heated discussion I can't seem to win...?

 

I think she doesn't because she doesn't have fast lows and her specials only have high followups. Float double overhead is not that good because she can't fast-fall and do a low and it also leaves her wide open if block. Her dash B and dash C have varying speeds so you can just block low>high in rythm and block it every single time, not to mention you leave a huge mashable gap because it's a dash move

 

What's the general verdict?

 

So far I agree. All of my damage from this weekend came from punishing the mash of my opponents and rarely opening them up. Once they got hit by double double-overheads they just kept blocking high and I had to rely on 66B/C to force some openings.

[Surf]

Has anyone got good confirms off of Oki j236B ?

 

• 236B hit > 5/2B > 5C > j.B j.C j.2C > 236A~C > j.8C j.2C > j.236B oki [2770 DMG]

 

There probably something better for this one. Made it one night 1 and have updated it since then. This is just if they don't block j.236B and you react fast enough to pick it up.

 

 

• 236B~d.C high > 3C > j.BB j.[C] > j.236A > j.A j.B j.2C > 2C > 214A~A [3114 DMG]

 

• 236B > 2C low > 5C > j.BB j.[C] > j.236A > j.A j.B j.2C > 2C > 214A~A [2748 DMG]

 

I agree with Daedron. Nanase has decent mixup options on the opponents wakeup, but outside of that she doesn't have much. Mind you those options are mostly in the corner because her j.236B oki can be avoided completely midscreen. And j.236B in neutral dash across the entire screen d.C isn't mixup. Just the player being retarded. Her pressure is iffy because she cant reset it reliably. She has virtually no + on block moves and nothing makes B+C safe mid pressure. There will always be a gap for the opponent to mash or dp if you use it. She only has 2 real lows during pressure (and her 2A isnt a low like a lot of the cast so she doesn't have a rapid fire low). Her high needs a setup to make it reliable. B+C helps to make some things more safe but you pretty much give up pressure if you choose to use it to get away from the opponent. Also like Daedron mentioned, Shielding makes double overhead stuff almost useless. 

[Dragoomba]

Has anyone got good confirms off of Oki j236B ?

In addition to Surf's post above, you can get some easy jump confirms when your'e out of 5/2B or 5/2C range.

After 236B hits, you can get a 6D > j.A/j,B > j.2C and follow up from that. You still get your two jump cancels since you started the combo with an air string. 

[NecroTheReaper]

I just feel we're stressing a bit much on the mixup portion of a game that has a huge emphasis on neutral control. Nanase isn't the only character to have meh to average mixup, and the only character that I've heard actually have good mixup in this game is Seth, who has issues elsewhere. Also, since all ground attacks are AUB in this game, it makes escaping pressure a bit risky (though I'm bad for now, so I can't apply this at all).

This might just be me being optimistic about the character, but even if her mixup is meh, I'm use to playing that way. I'd say she has fairly strong neutral in a neutral-based game (Merkava still kills me, but whatever). Just make sure to have CS and I feel like we could get strong mixup opportunities.

[Surf]

Not every attack is AUB. I went over her AUB's couple days ago

 

Her air unblock moves are 5B, 5C, 3C, All 3 versions of her DP, 236x series and it's follwups, her IW. You cant block these in the air at all, if you try to with shield up you'll be GRD broken

 

Jumping is risky but it doesn't stop people from doing it. Also her neutral is.. so-so. I have no idea why the just gave her an air version for her projectile. And her normals leave a lot to be desired. j.236B also goes under a lot of other projectiles. Which sounds good but then you think oh the opponent projectile is still coming. Since j.236B doesn't collide with and cancel it out. I actually find the Akatsuki matchup overly hard specifically for this reason. And j.236A isn't reliable enough to cancel out the projectiles either. Start up is way too slow for that. I actually wanna check if 5B cancels out projectiles now..

 

 

 

 

Spoiler: It doesn't

 

It would help if 236C was projectile invul but its not

[Tigre]

Okay i'm back after the weekend, I need to read up on this thread to see what cool crap everyones found. I'm still unsure when I should be using meter, and the practical range for 3C as an anti-air is very odd compared to what I was thinking.

When are you guys spending meters on specials? I'm sure the bnb i'm doing is non-optimal (I'm sure all of the combos we're doing are, but I'm working with day two tech still, means I was largely gone for a few days :v), but the damage I'm getting from the supers at the end of those combos is sad if I use meter.

[NecroTheReaper]

The only worthwhile use of meter for damage I've seen is her IW. Usually adds about 800 damage or so in exchange for 200 meter. Luckily meter is really only good for damage boosting or dp's in this game.

[drugtown]

yeah all i use meter for is for her IW or for 214C to get out of the corner

[Loli Bacon]

214C can force AUB setups.

[empryrean]

Has anyone tried 5b>5c> j.b>j2c>jc in a standing combo yet? I feel like there is potential but I suck.

[NecroTheReaper]

Its possible, but the damage isnt better than our current bnbs cuz you use your jump cancel without getting an orb in. I guess you could go for float resets doin it, but then the combo only gets you like 1400 damage, which if two resets gets you the same damage as one combo I wouldn't try it out too much.