Ice Cube Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 What is this about Nanase having NOMIXUP that I keep hearing.http://youtu.be/CXPiE5mXICo
Loli Bacon Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 What is this about Nanase having NOMIXUP that I keep hearing.http://youtu.be/CXPiE5mXICo Don't worry. Daedron will just say you can shield it or DP it on reaction and thus is trash.
OutlawVinegar Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 So after playing with my scene's better players for several hours, this character really is having a bad effect on my mental health. Most of the issue is mine and mine alone, not being able to calmly apply pressure and dropping combos at all times, but I really need some advice on general neutral. In particular, what in the world are this character's antiairs? Does she have any? 3C is super-sketchy and I've had so little success with it, probably 10% of the time it manages to hit someone or trade (probably in my favor if I learn a proper trade confirm). The rest of the time it either gets CH (I'll assume I'm doing it too late) or I swear people can sometimes clear it with a normal jump or even an Assault and simply outrange the vertical space. It feels totally worthless against Merkava and Waldstein, not very helpful on Byakuya either. Do I just have to block, shield, or hold that?
Loli Bacon Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 So after playing with my scene's better players for several hours, this character really is having a bad effect on my mental health. Most of the issue is mine and mine alone, not being able to calmly apply pressure and dropping combos at all times, but I really need some advice on general neutral. In particular, what in the world are this character's antiairs? Does she have any? 3C is super-sketchy and I've had so little success with it, probably 10% of the time it manages to hit someone or trade (probably in my favor if I learn a proper trade confirm). The rest of the time it either gets CH (I'll assume I'm doing it too late) or I swear people can sometimes clear it with a normal jump or even an Assault and simply outrange the vertical space. It feels totally worthless against Merkava and Waldstein, not very helpful on Byakuya either. Do I just have to block, shield, or hold that? 623A is a good anti-air. If it's blocked and you have 100 meter you can land > 214C away and be plus. For everything else, use 3C or standing shield. If you're whiffing the 3C, use 623A instead. If they're doing something huge, just stand shield it and punish. They're farther away? do j.A into combo. Use j.236B to force them to jump towards you and swat them out of the air. Can't beat their air normals? Jump and shield them. Neutral for me is typically tk.236B > tk.236A > tk.236A > react to where they are. If they blocked a j.236A, go into pressure by running in. If they jumped, anti-air them with either 3C or 623A. Make them scared to jump over j.236B. Once applying pressure, do basic reverse beat pressure. 5A stagger 2B 5C 2A(w) 5B 2A(w) 5C etc... Just mix it up and keep it unpredictable. I see most people coming into this game are from Blazblue, Guilty Gear or Street Fighter and they keep trying to end pressure strings with C moves or specials. Go for 2A whiffs and reapply or assess the situation. Hell you could even Assault to beat out most people trying to poke you with 2C. Once they start respecting you, you can go for 6D/throw mixups and tk.236A resets.
NecroTheReaper Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I will say BB's style of ending pressure is really killing my ability to maintain pressure in this game. So 5C>2C(w) is + on block? Cuz this makes me happy. I thought we had to deal with every move being at disadvantage. Also, 3C is actually useable as an AA? Its hitbox just seems so narrow it feels more like its meant for calling out assaults more than keepin people out of the air, but AAing in this game feels weird enough as is, with air movement not being a huge theme of the game. Out of curiosity, is anyone updating the wiki? I scan a game's frame data constantly, and not having any set out is uncomfortable
Ice Cube Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Don't worry. Daedron will just say you can shield it or DP it on reaction and thus is trash. Well thank the gods this is not Melty Blood if you have to input directions to get the shield out. I guess you can 6D / reverse DP on reaction... right?
Loli Bacon Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Well thank the gods this is not Melty Blood if you have to input directions to get the shield out. I guess you can 6D / reverse DP on reaction... right? You can OS it probably 6236D+B with probably either give you shield or DP depending on the side they're on. EDIT: Based on framedata, 5C > 2A(w) should be +1 or +2 on block.
NecroTheReaper Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I meant 2A -sigh-. Anyway, that's good news to me. How far do you need to be for 214A to be +? And since we're talkin about dp's, are both 623A and 623B full inv, or is thr A version only like H-invul or something.
Abelcru Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Setup to use the No Mixup that SKD found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUUpfSMRDeo&feature=youtu.be
Loli Bacon Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Setup to use the No Mixup that SKD found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUUpfSMRDeo&feature=youtu.be Will j.B hit a crouching opponent? If not, find a crouching example.
Ice Cube Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Would be nice to test if you can j.A to fuzzy a if ppl crouch after j.2C. I have no access to the game atm.
skd Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Will j.B hit a crouching opponent? If not, find a crouching example. rising jB can fuzzy, but fuzzies in this game cause block switch on hit/block, so rising jB to hit standing blockstun = forced crouch if they block low. spaced assault jB FF is also another situation you can do this, lol. Would be nice to test if you can j.A to fuzzy a if ppl crouch after j.2C. I have no access to the game atm. you can jC on the way down to hit people crouching, if you want? theres some shit on my channel, theres been some shit on my channel etc etc http://youtu.be/rAFxQm0hX1E http://youtu.be/CXPiE5mXICo http://youtu.be/U2uvewu_au8 http://youtu.be/ewZsjL_7qhM
Loli Bacon Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 That last combo is actually REALLY solid. I'll be taking that. Thanks SKD. For notation: 5B > 5C > 2C > 2B > 214A > 3C > JC > j.[C] > j.8C > j.B > j.2C > land > 2C > 236B~6C > IW Good stuff.
Abelcru Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I'll practice that last combo right now. btw how much each does without GRD?
nocchi Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 corner elevator combo just for style 2C 5C 236A(whiff)-6A 623C CS delay j.[C] B+C j.BB j.8C j.5C j.2C 2C 214A-A was getting aroudn 3.1k with proper mash on 623C
Daedron Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Don't worry. Daedron will just say you can shield it or DP it on reaction and thus is trash. More often than not this is true, I don't see how you can debate that. In the crossup case it's decent because you still retain your ability to bait the shield (if they try to shield the first j.B) and if they green shield the j.2C the auto-shield won't actually make them block the crossup so it's not a get out of jail free card. But anything else that involves the float without using a crossup is unfortunately not that good. You don't actually get a way to bait shield the moment you use float.
nocchi Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 decided to do some midscreen knockdown tech options testing after being inspired by ablecru's oki video. terminology legend mash - means opponent neutral techs then mashes dat 2a back tech - means opponent backwards techs tech dp - means opponent neutral techs and uses an invul dp at reversal timing must guard means the opponent must guard after teching or else they will get counter hit by her projectile neutral pressure means there is some time distance between projectile and opponent on tech pressure/strong pressure means very little distance between projectile and opponent on tech you get blown up... means you get hit/countered/high countered and just in case 8JC means jump cancel directly up 9JC means jump cancel towards the opponent high j236A/B means that you do the projectile immediately after the last hit of the combo connects low j236A/B means that you do the projectile right before you land ** is the route that covers the most options or is the safest weak starter - (assault/2a) 5b 5c 236a-6c j.[C] j.bb j.2C land enders 3C 8JC j.2C land tk.j236A mash - must guard back tech - must guard tech dp - you get blown up3C 8JC j.2C land tk.j236B mash - pressure back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - most dps will whiff from this distance but some reversal ex dps will blow you up3C 9JC j.2C land side switch tk.j236A mash - you get mashed out back tech - must guard tech dp - you get blown up3C 9JC j.2C land side switch delay tk.j236A mash - must guard but will whiff on linne/vatista if crouched after tech back tech - must guard tech dp - you get blown up3C 9JC j.2C land side switch tk.j236B mash - trade back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - you get blown up3C 9JC j.2C low j236B mash - must guard back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - you get blown up? ** 3C 9JC j.2C high j236B ** mash - strong pressure or must guard back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - most dps will whiff/get stuffed (gordeau's ex dp will trade in your favor if you block and you can jump out of walds 360C) strong starter (5B) 5C 236A-6C j.[C] j.BB j.2C land enders 3C 9JC j.C j.2C low j236A mash - you land on opposite side and are safe back tech - pressure but can whiff tech dp - you land on opposite side and are safe ** 3C 9JC j.C j.2C low j236B ** mash - strong pressure or must guard back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - safe/some dps will get stuffed (gordeau's ex dp will trade in your favor if you block and you can jump out of walds 360C)3C 9JC j.C j.2C high j236B mash - pressure back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - most dps will whiff/get stuffed (gordeau's ex dp will trade in your favor if you block and you can jump out of walds 360C)3C 9JC j.C j.2C land delay tk.j236A mash - must guard if you delay it correctly back tech - must guard tech dp - if delayed correctly stuffs normal dps but reversal ex dps will blow you up3C 9JC j.C j.2C land tk.j236B mash - strong pressure or must guard back tech - neutral pressure tech dp - can block most normal dps but reversal ex dps will blow you up might need more testing for stuff like delayed tech and something safe from seth's wakeup CS 623C, but hopefully this helps a little because her midscreen knockdown game is dope. obviously some of her better oki options aren't dp safe, but making the opponent respect you by doing the enders that make them block no matter what can open up other options and her follow-up game big time.
pulsr Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMwoMvdQ1I As long as you can get a low j2c 236B is pretty damn strong as an oki tool. The person can always roll back though. I
nocchi Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 was trying out the 5B 5C 2C 2B 214A 3C route from SKD's video and it's apparently pretty character specific works if you omit 5C on hilda/merkava/vatista doesn't work for various reasons on eltnum/seth/wald/linne/gordeau/yuzu/chaos works on rest of cast sucks since it looks so cool but 5B 2C 5C j.BB[C] land j.AB2C 2C 236B-6C IW only does like 300dmg less
RurouniLoneWolf Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Finally got my game yesterday. I can finally start being a part of this thread XD Whiff cancel stuff into other stuff. You can even do whatever you want into A stagger pressure which will reset to neutral if you let it and will let you do a full bnb if you catch them hitting buttons. I've also been doing 214A at the end of strings to make myself plus, adding in random B+C 6D j.BA pressure and if they respect my whiff cancels > 5C enough (5C > 2A(w) is +2 on block) I start getting away with dash attacks mid pressure. You can also start doing stuff > B+C > j.236A to gain enough frame advantage to run in, which will beat out any DP attempts if they think you're going to 6D in instead. Where'd you hear this from/How'd you find this out? Not doubting you or anything, it's just that the frame data from Maven's twitter on the first page has these listed as - so I'm wondering if there have been new discoveries on these since then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMwoMvdQ1I As long as you can get a low j2c 236B is pretty damn strong as an oki tool. The person can always roll back though. I Very nice guide pulsr. Tons of great info in here to play with. Thanks for creating it! Also, glad to see 236A~6C is becoming a regular combo part. I really like doing it in combos ^,^
LitchiFayeBling Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 just as a side note, i'm 99% sure rising jump normals in this game do not count as overhead. tested with rising jA with carmine and merkava.
Tigre Posted July 30, 2014 Author Posted July 30, 2014 This was a system change in UNIEL. Air normals do not hit high until you are falling, there may be some weird exception that I'm unaware of.
logichole Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 That's... interesting Tigre. They apparently really want you to use Assault to get an overhead. Which actually makes 236X6B more interesting since it doesn't have the same tells that Assault does. So many of my assumptions from ArcSys games are being challenged, I don't even know what I'm wrongly thinking right now.
Miracleknight Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Not sure what you mean by 236X6B doesn't have the same tell as assault does. Since it's even more obvious and people will eventually just DP you every time you slide at them since there's no reason not to.
logichole Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Eh, it's one small part of a healthy breakfast of options. If you only ever play safe you drastically limit your choices. (* take all my opinions with a grain of salt. YMMV.)
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