[UNIEL] Nanase

[Loli Bacon]

Stop trying to play the game like Blaz and her matchups get a lot easier to deal with.

[NecroTheReaper]

There's worse characters in this game with a more dedicated player base than this, cmon guys -sigh-.

Though, I'm a strange player and see counter-picking as a scrub tactic. People keep complaining about mixup this and that, and my only thought is who the hell in this game has good mixup? Everything is so straightforward when it concerns mixup, so I'd say 214A's ability to be CS'd for like... 6 different types of mixup gives her at least decent mixup. People that dont have to respect fireballs you juat adapt you're use of fireballs so they dont punish every time.

Not sayin not ro have a sub, but everyone here seems like they got to have a counter pick for every more difficult MU.

[Ragnarok_F4]

Does some1 knows how to fight Vatista? I always get shut down by them. 

 

Damn, I saw your match yesterday. I don't have much Vatista knowledge since is a rare matchup online but we have to respect that DP, she can zone you really easy and has good defensive game. So, my bet against her would be trying to bait her DP and not to rush her down like we probably do against other zoners. Maybe trying to land a 2C from the distance? She would make a good sub, if only for her info.

[WintySoSolo]

i only use subs because i dislike playing mirror matches.

I don't really feel she has a fireball "game", it seems more of an okizeme tool for the most part, but then against out of 100 matches I think at least 40 of them have been agaisnt hilda who I obviously have no neutral use for j236x against.

I kind of wish 236x was low enough to go under higher projectiles but that's just my instincts to projectiles talking.

 

oh I was in training mode and I was doing the combo where you do xxx 236B~6C j[C] jB j2C 3C etc and I kept randomly landing crossup after j2C, is there something I'm doing wrong or is that just how the combo works?

[drugtown]

i only use subs because i dislike playing mirror matches.

I don't really feel she has a fireball "game", it seems more of an okizeme tool for the most part, but then against out of 100 matches I think at least 40 of them have been agaisnt hilda who I obviously have no neutral use for j236x against.

I kind of wish 236x was low enough to go under higher projectiles but that's just my instincts to projectiles talking.

 

oh I was in training mode and I was doing the combo where you do xxx 236B~6C j[C] jB j2C 3C etc and I kept randomly landing crossup after j2C, is there something I'm doing wrong or is that just how the combo works?

 

if you do j.[C] j.B j.2C at low enough of a height, you crossover when you land after j.2C

 

it happens sometimes; 2C is slow enough that you have time to confirm if it does happen though

[Abelcru]

Damn, I saw your match yesterday. I don't have much Vatista knowledge since is a rare matchup online but we have to respect that DP, she can zone you really easy and has good defensive game. So, my bet against her would be trying to bait her DP and not to rush her down like we probably do against other zoners. Maybe trying to land a 2C from the distance? She would make a good sub, if only for her info.

My problem is not her DP since we can stop her from doing it with wind. My problem is getting in, when she throws those crystals I just dont have any space to get in. btw can you block her crystal explosion?

[Ciddypoo]

Crystal explosion can be blocked, but if you're caught in blockstun, the ground AUBs will still hit you.

[Ragnarok_F4]

I see, maybe using fireball to keep her in blockstun and rush to her side while she's still in blockstun so she cannot activate the crystal, but probably she will jump and do A fireball and still activate it..... I really don't know here, I haven't played to much vatista...

[drugtown]

doesn't laser destroy fireball?

 

edit: just tested - laser destroys A and B fireball and isn't nullified by doing so, so if you j.236B and try to run out of her she can just stop you cold with laser

 

double edit: wait no, it doesn't always? it does if it actually makes contact with the fireball but otherwise it just goes over

[Ciddypoo]

Usually they'll have a gem out in front of them anyway so if you approach they just jump over the wind and hit the crystal if you approach :B

[WintySoSolo]

dunno if people have been doing this but this game has funky melty proration, I've found that 2C 2B launcher gives the best damage for air combos. It's usually a small difference but an interesting note.

 

"small" being like, 10 damage lol. j[C] jBB j2C 2C 214A~A is 2886 from 5B 2B 2C 5C and 2895 from 5B 5C 2C 2B.

[silverhydra]

It's expensive, but you can do j.236B x j.236C at max (or appropriate) height to force people to block and then respect the incoming B wind.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Small update on the Nanase frame data that I thought everyone might be interested in knowing. According to this tweet from SKD, the startup on all of Nanase's attacks is 1f faster than listed in Maven's finding. So, be sure to keep that in mind going forward!

 

I'll fix the data in the wiki tonight as well as improve some move descriptions and the combo section now that I have much more experience with Nanase and more combos have been found.

[Abelcru]

For those that dont know. Agaisnt Vatista I find that doing 236A-6C is the best way to beat her zoning game. (still testing)

 

You can pass through safely at her slow ball on startup:

 

If she tries to Lazer after, you can block it (sometimes Lazer whiffs)

 

If she tries to do the fast ball version, you can punish with a 2B or C before the ball comes out.

 

If she tries to flash kick, you can block it. 

 

Im still testing this so I'll keep you updated 

 

https://twitter.com/AbelcruGamercru/status/496516646476210177

[Afternoon Intergalactic]

Anybody know a good veil off punish combo? I've found myself in a lot of situations where I bait an EX DP... lol.

[Ragnarok_F4]

^How much bar do you have left? Can you CS in the combo? Sometimes I do the same combo and at the end I do 236A > 236C > CS > 623C, for a double super finisher, or  if I'm in red I do ABCD at the end instead of the 623C. I haven't found a way to connect the IW after a super at the end of a combo though.

 

Also:

214C > 236B > 6C > j[C]  > j5B > j5B > j2C > 236A > 6A > 623C deals around 3.6k without Vorpal and Veil off. With Veil off you could easily surpass the 4k (maybe around 4.5k with both). In this combo you can do an OTG before the 236A part at the end, however you end up dealing the same damage.....

[LitchiFayeBling]

what are good B dp chain shift combos? anti air and anti ground?

[Afternoon Intergalactic]

^How much bar do you have left? Can you CS in the combo? Sometimes I do the same combo and at the end I do 236A > 236C > CS > 623C, for a double super finisher, or  if I'm in red I do ABCD at the end instead of the 623C. I haven't found a way to connect the IW after a super at the end of a combo though.

 

Also:

214C > 236B > 6C > j[C]  > j5B > j5B > j2C > 236A > 6A > 623C deals around 3.6k without Vorpal and Veil off. With Veil off you could easily surpass the 4k (maybe around 4.5k with both). In this combo you can do an OTG before the 236A part at the end, however you end up dealing the same damage.....

 

I was looking for a veil-off punish combo with optimal conditions (so probably 200 meter and vorpal) for when an opponent tries to wakeup EX DP and whiffs completely (seems to happen more often than one would think). The combo you suggested seems solid, but I feel that squeezing in the IW for more damage in Veil Off is possible (maybe at the expense of the second super?)

[LitchiFayeBling]

SKD uploaded a combo with veil off in it which is cool. 

[Grendy]

this is probably a very noob question but with the new information regarding frame data does this mean our 2a whiff cancels are 1f faster? or is it simply the startup of moves are 1f faster while the recovery is unaffected?

[Sashi]

Neither are faster. It's just that the recovery of some moves are so long that you can go through the entire animation of 2A and still recover faster than if you let the normal recovery play out.

[Ragnarok_F4]

I was looking for a veil-off punish combo with optimal conditions (so probably 200 meter and vorpal) for when an opponent tries to wakeup EX DP and whiffs completely (seems to happen more often than one would think). The combo you suggested seems solid, but I feel that squeezing in the IW for more damage in Veil Off is possible (maybe at the expense of the second super?)

Since the combo is in veil off, it is possible to use the IW at the end, good idea. Instead of using 236A > 6A, we do 236A > IW, or just 2C > IW. I haven't found a way to use the IW after a super, all the supers send them flying so high.

[NecroTheReaper]

So 2A and 5A have the same total duration? Kinda see is as a somewhat important feature cuz 2A is a solid pressure tool (moreso than 5A) because of its self cancels. Stagger pressure seems to be the only viable pressure in this game unless you have a command grab or wear a vest with red hair and controls blood guy who can keep you blocking for forever.

[Sashi]

I'm assuming 2A is shorter total duration.

[NecroTheReaper]

Ugh... oh well. Guess you gotta choose between stagger or ending/resetting with frame advantage.